Ceton, SageDCT, and FiOS ***SUCCESS***

[srothwell]

This is great, but I'm waiting for the HDHR Prime system. Personally, I like the external-ness of the HDHR over an internal card. That way, I can have the tuners located elsewhere in the house where it's more convinient for an RF input.

How I'd love to hear when someone gets hold of, and makes this work, with the HDHR Prime.

[The Truth]

NEW FIRMWARE IS GIVING ME ERROR MESSAGES AGAIN.... anyone else experiencing this? i guess i will go back to the beta.

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by The Truth

NEW FIRMWARE IS GIVING ME ERROR MESSAGES AGAIN.... anyone else experiencing this? i guess i will go back to the beta.

By "errors" I assume you mean interrupted recording errors? Or is it something else?

What rev firmware is giving you the errors? Is it a release version or a beta version?


KoB

[vorius]

I was trying to follow in your footsteps but I've been dealing with big problems early on.

I originally tried my Ceton card maybe 2 weeks ago, and it was failing to recognize my CableCARD. Said it was not a valid M-Card. The Ceton support asked me to get a new CableCARD, so I contacted Verizon and they agreed to send me a second one.

But the 2nd one had pretty much the same issues, so Ceton decided to mail me a replacement tuner.

I got the replacement this week and tried it out - the card is recognized and I moved on to next step of pairing/validating the card. I did not have any tech representative from Verizon come to my house, I was thinking I can do this on my own. I activated the card via their online activation, and did the Windows Media Center Digital CableCard Setup Wizard thingie and was able to get up to a point where it now says the card is waiting for an activation message.

Its been like this for 36 hours now and I dont know how to proceed. I just contacted Ceton again so hopefully they will have some new ideas.

I am very grateful to Ceton support for they are extremely helpful and prompt. Verizon is also great because they gave me no problems when I needed their help.

I just wish this process would go more smoothly. Didn't expect this much trouble.

One thing I am wondering, is it possible my Network Firewall is causing a problem with my card receiving it's activation signal? I dont know, thought it was worth a mention...

In Ceton diagnostics window it has 3 red problems reported:

6) CableCARD has not received Validation signal.
7) Headend has not turned on service to CableCARD.
8) If you have waited more than 10 minutes, try having your cable company send an INIT to your CableCARD.

And in Windows Media Center it says:

Not Validated, Binding Authentication Complete, Validation Message not received yet

I also called Verizon earlier and they said they would "reset" my CableCARDs, confident that it would solve the problem. But its been almost an hour now with no difference. Is that the same thing as sending an INIT to my cablecard? The person on the line wasnt sure what that meant either...

[King of Bayonne]

First question: do you also have traditional FiOS set-top boxes? Are THEY working properly? Do they receive guide info? The CableCard is going to use the same communications path as the STBs, so if they're not working, that's the first thing to diagnose.

If they ARE working, or if you don't have any, the next thing I'd do is (temporarily) disable all firewalls running on that system and see if the pairing succeeds. If so, you probably need to punch some ports through and/or enable access for some applications.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what to tell you. I *did* have a FiOS tech here for the install, and we got things working pretty quickly... in fact, despite being both nice and knowledgeable, he really didn't have to do very much.


KoB

[bnh]

i don't know how relevant this is since i have Comcast, but even though my setup is working fine, the Ceton diagnostic tool continues to report an error on step 6: "CableCARD has not received Validation signal. Please ask your cable company to send a 'CCV' signal to your CableCARD."

It seems that step may not be necessary, but i think having a Headend connection detected would be a must.

[The Truth]

In the centon software does it list you cablecard info?


With Verizon Fios I was told I needed a filter installed right before the coaxial connection to the card it is a 5~860Mhz Low Pass Filter. if you did this yourself you may not have this and it could be causing a problem. You only need this with any Service provider that uses MOCA, I believe. This used to be on the Centon website somewhere, but I can't find it right now.
Also i have tto power my pc compltely off for the card to sync up with fios everytime. Completely power off your pc then power it on and see if that works.

In the setup process after everyting is synced, the pc needs to be rebooted, but do a full power down, wait a few seconds. Then power the pc up. You may have to do that 2 times initially.

[The Truth]

If you want i can work on this with you. Id be happy to get you up and running. I will be able to do everything on the pc end wih you over vnc/the phone and working with your cable provider.

You can email me @ lameandboard@gmail.com i am confident i can get it working of find the issue. When mine was installed a tech needed to logon his laptop and run a script to sync the cable card to the centon device, if you changed centons, the sync would need to be recreated. Also is verizon able to see the mac address from your centon? Or any info at all?

Also you have to install all the stuff in media center. And have win7.

FYI I attached some Instructions in case you didnt have them. I used the Quick guide when I installed mine.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by srothwell

This is great, but I'm waiting for the HDHR Prime system. Personally, I like the external-ness of the HDHR over an internal card. That way, I can have the tuners located elsewhere in the house where it's more convinient for an RF input.

How I'd love to hear when someone gets hold of, and makes this work, with the HDHR Prime.

Centon has a USB version, with 4 tuners also.....

Originally Posted by King of Bayonne

First question: do you also have traditional FiOS set-top boxes? Are THEY working properly? Do they receive guide info? The CableCard is going to use the same communications path as the STBs, so if they're not working, that's the first thing to diagnose.

If they ARE working, or if you don't have any, the next thing I'd do is (temporarily) disable all firewalls running on that system and see if the pairing succeeds. If so, you probably need to punch some ports through and/or enable access for some applications.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what to tell you. I *did* have a FiOS tech here for the install, and we got things working pretty quickly... in fact, despite being both nice and knowledgeable, he really didn't have to do very much.


KoB

The ONLY firewall that could effect this would be a local firewall on the Computer itself. The Windows Firewall.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by King of Bayonne

By "errors" I assume you mean interrupted recording errors? Or is it something else?

What rev firmware is giving you the errors? Is it a release version or a beta version?


KoB

KoB,
How long can you have your Sage Server powered on without a restart before the centon card stops being about to record? This differs for me. It may be a fios thing. I'm Creating a script to reboot the PC if the card fails.

[The Truth]

Has anyone updated to the newest Drivers?

[vorius]

Originally Posted by King of Bayonne

First question: do you also have traditional FiOS set-top boxes? Are THEY working properly? Do they receive guide info? The CableCard is going to use the same communications path as the STBs, so if they're not working, that's the first thing to diagnose.

If they ARE working, or if you don't have any, the next thing I'd do is (temporarily) disable all firewalls running on that system and see if the pairing succeeds. If so, you probably need to punch some ports through and/or enable access for some applications.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what to tell you. I *did* have a FiOS tech here for the install, and we got things working pretty quickly... in fact, despite being both nice and knowledgeable, he really didn't have to do very much.


KoB

Interesting you should mention that.

I have three TVs in my house. 2 are hooked up to standard STBs and I rarely every watch them. One is my HTPC whcih is the one I use. I have had FIOS TV + Internet for about 3 years now, if not longer!

Originally, Verizon installed one of their proprietary routers, some piece of crap I hated and caused poor performance on my Internet. So I swapped it out with a nice Linksys/Cisco router and have been happy ever since.

The only consequence I noticed, was that on my regular TVs they no longer get program guide data. I even tried plugging my old Verizon router into my new router, but that didnt help. I guess it needs some ports forwarded to it in order to work? I never looked into it and never cared because I rarely ever watch TV on those.

So do you think this is the source of the problem? The message that Verizon is trying to send to my CableCARD comes via the Internet, not the coax cable? That would be... surprising. How would that even work? I dont understand... Maybe has something to do with the way some coax cable came out of the old verizon router? I dont remember how that thing was hooked up anymore...

----------[EDIT 1]-----------

Ok I think after reading up some more on it the communications between the STB and the default Verizon router makes more sense... that's a 2 way communication between that coax right? I always thought the coax going into the Verizon router was one way from the ONT to router. But I guess it also sends guide data from the internet through the splitter to any sTBs connected to the splitter... right?

Anyway, I am going to follow the instructions here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15992

To try and utilize my Verizon router as a secondary device whose sole purpose is to feed my STBs with guide data and hopefully... received these validation messages and data for the CableCARDs.

Question: If program guide data come is via the coax, why does sagetv need to load xml program guide data? why cant the guide data be passed on from the tuner to sagetv???

----------[EDIT 2]-----------

Actually... spoke to Ceton tech over the phone and he says firewall would have nothing to do with it... he is scheduling a call together with me him and a Verizon rep for late this afternoon... hopefully the three of us can work this out!

I still might do the network re-config as described above, just so I can program guide data on my other TVs. Just now not so urgent

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by The Truth

KoB,
How long can you have your Sage Server powered on without a restart before the centon card stops being about to record? This differs for me. It may be a fios thing. I'm Creating a script to reboot the PC if the card fails.

I don't ever have a situation where the Ceton becomes totally unable to record... I am however occasionally getting "Halt Detected in Recording" issues, and am trying to determine if it's a software issue, config issue, signal level issue, etc. However, even when I get halts, all four tuners are available and working for the next recording... so I don't know if my situation mirrors yours...


KoB

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by The Truth

Has anyone updated to the newest Drivers?

I am running 1.5.4304.06-20111017, which I believe is the most current driver package.


KoB

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by vorius

Interesting you should mention that.

I have three TVs in my house. 2 are hooked up to standard STBs and I rarely every watch them. One is my HTPC whcih is the one I use. I have had FIOS TV + Internet for about 3 years now, if not longer!

Originally, Verizon installed one of their proprietary routers, some piece of crap I hated and caused poor performance on my Internet. So I swapped it out with a nice Linksys/Cisco router and have been happy ever since.

The only consequence I noticed, was that on my regular TVs they no longer get program guide data. I even tried plugging my old Verizon router into my new router, but that didnt help. I guess it needs some ports forwarded to it in order to work? I never looked into it and never cared because I rarely ever watch TV on those.

So do you think this is the source of the problem? The message that Verizon is trying to send to my CableCARD comes via the Internet, not the coax cable? That would be... surprising. How would that even work? I dont understand... Maybe has something to do with the way some coax cable came out of the old verizon router? I dont remember how that thing was hooked up anymore...

----------[EDIT 1]-----------

Ok I think after reading up some more on it the communications between the STB and the default Verizon router makes more sense... that's a 2 way communication between that coax right? I always thought the coax going into the Verizon router was one way from the ONT to router. But I guess it also sends guide data from the internet through the splitter to any sTBs connected to the splitter... right?

Anyway, I am going to follow the instructions here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15992

To try and utilize my Verizon router as a secondary device whose sole purpose is to feed my STBs with guide data and hopefully... received these validation messages and data for the CableCARDs.

Question: If program guide data come is via the coax, why does sagetv need to load xml program guide data? why cant the guide data be passed on from the tuner to sagetv???

----------[EDIT 2]-----------

Actually... spoke to Ceton tech over the phone and he says firewall would have nothing to do with it... he is scheduling a call together with me him and a Verizon rep for late this afternoon... hopefully the three of us can work this out!

I still might do the network re-config as described above, just so I can program guide data on my other TVs. Just now not so urgent

If you remove your Verizon router your STBs wont get data for guides, but the Centon will still receive a guide.!!!!


But!!!! if you set up the verizon router to use the Ethernet as wan, then connect it to your new other routers lan ports, and you have to leave the coax connected. you will still get Guides on all the boxes while using your router as a primanry... I have atually done this myself. You may also have to have Verizon set the ONT to use the Ethernet port over Coax, depending on your current config.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by King of Bayonne

I don't ever have a situation where the Ceton becomes totally unable to record... I am however occasionally getting "Halt Detected in Recording" issues, and am trying to determine if it's a software issue, config issue, signal level issue, etc. However, even when I get halts, all four tuners are available and working for the next recording... so I don't know if my situation mirrors yours...


KoB

I just noticed all four Centon Tuners tried to record 1 show and all failed. When i noticed that, I tried to open the centon software, and it never loaded up and recognized the card, before taking a log, i powered the PC down resetting the connection.

[King of Bayonne]

Whether you have a coax or UTP connection between the Verizon router and the ONT, the connections between the STBs and the "rest of the world" are made using MoCa (grossly simplified = data networking over the same coax used for the TV signal). Some functionality in the FiOS environment requires bidirectional signalling; this implies that (1) you can't use things like traditional signal amps on your coax because they tend to block or interfere with the data network traffic, and (2) outbound routing from your "TV endpoints" back to Verizon has to be properly configured for certain things to work.

You have already seen that thing like guide information and PPV authorizations will fail if routing is broken... and I believe your CableCard problem is also related. Grossly oversimplified, your Verizon STBs are inheritantly trusted to decrypt TV signals because they are Verizon-supplied sealed appliances. OTOH, your CableCard has to negotiate with Verizon equipment to say "hey, I'm one of the cards you know about, and this dude is paying the monthly for me, so authorize me to tune TV channels in this PC". Until and unless the CableCard completes that handshake, you won't tune jack.

Summary: while a properly-routed return path may be "optional" if you only have STBs and don't care about guide information and PPV and such, I believe it IS required in all cases if you want to use CableCards.

I am operating my FiOS-provided router in Option 6 mode per the DSLReports discussion at http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizo...3.0_Networking. It works swimmingly... never had a single CableCard-related problem. The only drawback is that Verizon can't directly diddle their router without you rewiring things, but they CAN touch the STBs (for diagnostics etc).

As for firewalls on your Ceton host: the Windows firewall probably isn't getting in the way, but if you have some additional/other third party firewalls (Norton, etc) you MAY have to disable them.


KoB

[The Truth]

VORIUS, I know i can Get you up and running... I AM a Fiber optic and network tech

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by King of Bayonne

Summary: while a properly-routed return path may be "optional" if you only have STBs and don't care about guide information and PPV and such, I believe it IS required in all cases if you want to use CableCards.

As for firewalls on your Ceton host: the Windows firewall probably isn't getting in the way, but if you have some additional/other third party firewalls (Norton, etc) you MAY have to disable them.

KoB

I THINK YOU MAY JUST NEED A LOW PASS FILTER to filter out the MOCA...

DO YOU HAVE A LOW PASS FILTER?

KOB does say some things that are true, but it sounds like he is only speaking from his experience.
You do not need a properly wired return path for a cardcard to work.... you do for the setup maybe, but after verizon has your centon MAC and everything you should be fine.

Just as the STBs will tune every channel fine without the router... they just wont be able to update your Guide, but you get you guide from sage for the Centon so who cares....

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by King of Bayonne

Whether you have a coax or UTP connection between the Verizon router and the ONT, the connections between the STBs and the "rest of the world" are made using MoCa (grossly simplified = data networking over the same coax used for the TV signal). Some functionality in the FiOS environment requires bidirectional signalling; this implies that (1) you can't use things like traditional signal amps on your coax because they tend to block or interfere with the data network traffic, and (2) outbound routing from your "TV endpoints" back to Verizon has to be properly configured for certain things to work.

You have already seen that thing like guide information and PPV authorizations will fail if routing is broken... and I believe your CableCard problem is also related. Grossly oversimplified, your Verizon STBs are inheritantly trusted to decrypt TV signals because they are Verizon-supplied sealed appliances. OTOH, your CableCard has to negotiate with Verizon equipment to say "hey, I'm one of the cards you know about, and this dude is paying the monthly for me, so authorize me to tune TV channels in this PC". Until and unless the CableCard completes that handshake, you won't tune jack.

Summary: while a properly-routed return path may be "optional" if you only have STBs and don't care about guide information and PPV and such, I believe it IS required in all cases if you want to use CableCards.

I am operating my FiOS-provided router in Option 6 mode per the DSLReports discussion at http://www.dslreports.com/faq/verizo...3.0_Networking. It works swimmingly... never had a single CableCard-related problem. The only drawback is that Verizon can't directly diddle their router without you rewiring things, but they CAN touch the STBs (for diagnostics etc).

As for firewalls on your Ceton host: the Windows firewall probably isn't getting in the way, but if you have some additional/other third party firewalls (Norton, etc) you MAY have to disable them.


KoB

You couldn't be more wrong the Centon card Needs a filter to filer out the MoCA..The cable card doesn't use MOCA. Your cable card does not get an IP address like the STBs.