Any painless way to migrate all the TV Recordings into MCE?

[Rico66]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I think it's (convertable) so long as the recording wasn't DRM'd.

That is correct. You can convert non drmed recordings to other formats. For mpeg2 (e.g. ota/clearqam) the included wtvconverter converts to dvr-ms. And that format can be read by many tools.
h264 recordings (e.g. hd pvr) can be converted from wtv to ts using a tool called mctvconverter.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Gerry, I do appreciate your devotion to SageTV and I understand it. I absolutely love it myself. But, I'm a realist and I understand that it may very well be dead forever. I prefer to plan ahead and ensure that I'm ready when things go south. Am I still using SageTV? Yup. Do I plan to switch over tomorrow? Nope. But, I'm making sure that when I choose to or am forced to, that I have something ready to replace it.

And I understand. Trying to stick to the analogy format I failed at making my point. And I might have assumed too much. Being that we own the SageTV product I assumed people actually compared it to other products before coming here and purchasing. (I did and continued to compare products through out using SageTV. Both new and products that continued to be developed.) When BTV went away I assumend those people evaluated other products before coming on board with Sage. Sage was initially a whole house DVR solution. First with PC clients and then eventually with the extenders. Other media was added because people asked for it and Sage listened. I came aboard the SageTV train with version 1.2.

I purchased extenders since they were available. The one HD100 I have I repaired the power supply. The 2 x HD200 and the 1 x HD300 have worked flawlessly.

So here's where the auto analogy fails. As far as Sage is concerned we're talking TV. Unlike an auto that is usually a more critical and intricate part of a person's life. Most people depend on a car for their lively hood. Whether it is getting them to and from work every day, using it to get their food, clothing and other neccessities of life. TV really isn't a neccessity. There really isn't nothing to maintain on a Sage system compared to a car. (Oil changes, tuneups, brakes, etc and the things that break.) Sage on the other hand has nothing to maintain from an extender point of view. If you have a working Sage solution and stopped doing all Windows updates and now that Sage updates have stopped you can continue recording and watching forever. The plugins I have work for me and if all of those updates stopped my system still works. (Not to say something might not break. And if it did I could always just continue using the core Sage product.) I got out of tweaking my system all the time and just enjoyed using and watching it.

So until something equal or better comes along I will do nothing except record TV and enjoy my system. If the guide stops working I have XMLTV all ready to step in. Playon continues to provide the streaming experience to the TV. Comskip continues to allow me to skip the commercials. If the day comes that enough of these things begin to break down and not work I can have a cable co. DVR delivered and working that afternoon. I have my eye on the DirectTV H34 whole house system. I'm also looking at Comcast new Xfinity system whiich again is whole house and could be very interesting. The Tivo Premeire whole house system is again interesting. Other than MythTV or nPVR no one really has a good PVR backend. (XBMC, Mediaportal, Plex, etc.) The other point I would have to evaluate with the other systems is actual cost, can I buy the equipment instead of rent, etc.

Anyway I look at it I believe I have plenty of time to wait. Unlike the auto analogy where if my car broke down and I couldn't get parts I certainly couldn't make my 70 mile round trip to and from work to allow me to afford to fix anything.

What happened with Sage didn't end my world of media enjoyment. And since I was always looking at and evaluating what else was out there it really didn't change anything for me. I purchased what I needed to begin with so I didn't get caught not having what I needed for the house. For the new users it is too bad. I think Jeff has done what he could to accomadate some of the newer users and those that kept holding out to upgrade to SageTV 7. I also think he has gone above and beyond what he needed to do, legally or morally. He is bound by the terms of sale. And he has kept an open dialog. (As much as he could.)

Hopefully something as good or better than Sage comes along. Maybe it will be from Google. And maybe it will be from someone else. All I know is the wife is recording every episode of "The Office" known to man but with enough storage I'm still able to record all the new series coming out and the returning series.

Gerry

[Skirge01]

The only issue I have with what you said is that we don't have access to the code, unlike in a car, where you can get to the guts of the entire vehicle. Basically, anyone who has the knowledge can fix anything that goes wrong.

Can I turn off Windows updates? Sure. It's not a very good idea, though. (I work in IT and have a major issue with a lack of computer security.) Can I stick with my current drivers? Of course. But, some people have issues with their hardware (Colossus and HD-PVR come to mind) and need to update in order to try and fix those issues. If a fix is required in SageTV, it can't be done. If DTV changes something that totally screws up my HD-PVR's ability to record or change channels in SageTV, I'm SOL.

My point is that there are things outside of my control which could happen (in fact, WILL happen, eventually) and I'm not one to sit around and hope for the best. I don't usually have that kind of luck.

To your other point about alternatives, in order for me to get a DTV DVR, I'd need to shell out $200, extend my contract for 2 years, and wait a couple of weeks for them to deliver it. While TV certainly isn't a necessity, anyone who has a family knows what it's like in the house when the [phone, TV, dishwasher, dryer, internet] isn't working. "Hell hath no fury" as they say.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I wouldn't say utter crap. They can do netflix and hulu plus (two bigs ups in my household.).

But those aren't in the extender functionality, they're in the Xbox functionality. I use my 360 for Netflix regularly (not Hulu plus because there's nothing on there I want that I can't get elsewhere and too much stuff unavailable through Plus and only on the website).

For anything but TV, in a Windows Media Center system, the extender functionality is crap. And I don't count being able to drop into the Xbox interface as counting because I do that today with Sage.

I disagree there WMC DVR package is pretty solid.

Think you missed where I switched from WMC to others (speaking MythTV, MediaPortal, XBMC, etc).

Yeah but then it get;s back to two boxes at the tv the whole point which is seeming more and more less possible I agree.

I've long given up on the idea of "one box", or more accurately "one interface" it's simply not a realistic goal IMO. And my URC remotes make multiple boxes a non-issue.

Yeah I don't think you will every see another pvr package with the streaming capabilities (movies)of sagetv unless we ever see softsled.

I bet that wouldn't have it either, just going by how Microsoft does things, it would probably mirror Extender functionality almost exactly.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But those aren't in the extender functionality, they're in the Xbox functionality. I use my 360 for Netflix regularly (not Hulu plus because there's nothing on there I want that I can't get elsewhere and too much stuff unavailable through Plus and only on the website).

For anything but TV, in a Windows Media Center system, the extender functionality is crap. And I don't count being able to drop into the Xbox interface as counting because I do that today with Sage.
es a non-issue.

disagree my downconverted blurays look great on my 720p tv. An yes you have to exit to dashboard but it is still one box.

[OneOfMany]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Can I turn off Windows updates? Sure. It's not a very good idea, though. (I work in IT and have a major issue with a lack of computer security.)
.

Hmmm.. I run four dedicated Clients behind a firewall. I also am in IT. What do I really need the updates for? And I could rollback if one became an issue.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Can I stick with my current drivers? Of course. But, some people have issues with their hardware (Colossus and HD-PVR come to mind) and need to update in order to try and fix those issues.
.

If it's working, why would you need a driver update?

Originally Posted by Skirge01

If a fix is required in SageTV, it can't be done. If DTV changes something that totally screws up my HD-PVR's ability to record or change channels in SageTV, I'm SOL.
.

If you have upgrade your STB to one that has no outputs, I can see this causing problems with any solution.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

My point is that there are things outside of my control which could happen (in fact, WILL happen, eventually) and I'm not one to sit around and hope for the best. I don't usually have that kind of luck.
.

Anything is possible.. likely? I built my business POS system with full inventory control systems, quoting, selling, purchasing, as well as scripting my database for website. It's written in ObjectPal - Paradox7 32bit! Started with Win'95, Win'98SE, NT3.51 Server, Win2000 & Win2000 Server, XP Pro clients on Win 2003 Server, and now Win7 Pro w/ Server 2008. Somehow I doubt that Sage7 wont run on Win8 next year. And with half (it seems) of the users on here still running XP! I guess I could run Win7 on my dedicated box another couple if neccessary.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

To your other point about alternatives, in order for me to get a DTV DVR, I'd need to shell out $200, extend my contract for 2 years, and wait a couple of weeks for them to deliver it.
.

Around here, they are so desperate for business, I could get it same day.. probably delivered lol.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

While TV certainly isn't a necessity, anyone who has a family knows what it's like in the house when the [phone, TV, dishwasher, dryer, internet] isn't working. "Hell hath no fury" as they say.

Even if "live TV were to stop for a week, there's enough archived to easily cover it at my house.

I think I'm OK at home for now.

Grant

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

disagree my downconverted blurays look great on my 720p tv.

Just be glad you don't have a 1080p, 7.1, scope front projection system, with >1200W of power and room treatments.

An yes you have to exit to dashboard but it is still one box.

Point is, since it's not in the same interface, it's no better (user interaction wise) than a separate box and a good universal remote.

[heatvent]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Well said the ceton is very nice tuner. 4 hd feeds for $1.99 rental a month is hard to beat.

As for extenders there are workarounds that I am looking into. I only need native hd audio and bluray playback in the main theater room. So I don't mind transcoding below 12mbs a second or to 720p basically for the other rooms (they aren't 1080p tv's anyhow). Then the xbox will handle them just fine.

No solution is perfect or the best. It is all based on your needs and wants.

Wow, lots of quotes in this thread gone wild. Anyhoo, what I really liked about Sage's extenders and they weren't workarounds. I initially tried Sage and WMC via a PC card. I tried multiple cards, multiple codecs, etc. and ran into issues with it being choppy at times or the TV comes on but I have to restart the app to get the HDMI out to work, and so on. Since the minute I plugged in my exenders, I didn't really have to tweak anything other than initial overscan/setup and they just worked. No noise, low power, small, played HD, could do anything I could do on the Sage PC app...they basically had it all; and for just $150. So for me, plug and play and less money added up to SageTV as my choice. The main things that might flip the scale for me since I started with Sage are (1) Sage will no longer be developed, (2) power pack 3 on WHS with some MC support, and (3) the HDHomeRun prime that is being released this month. A bit pricey but 3 tuners and cablecard that are served over network that I could connect to with any MC PC or through an extender. Netflix, easy guide setup and snazzy interface are just icing. Very tempting.

[Fuzzy]

Personally, i have faith in my current sagetv setup. It does everything I want it to do. I don't like netflix streaming, and would rather get the disc from netflix either way. I have never felt the need for hulu either. Sage works exactly for what we want/need. The absolute worst thing that could happen to my setup, would be if my R-5000's crapped out, in which case, I actually have 2 unopened colossus cards still in the shipping box that I bought at their cheap pre-order prices that could be used with whatever box I need to get to replace my 211's.

The thing is, as was already mentioned, I don't need the netflix/hulu stuff... nor do I need cablecard (cable doesn't have what i want anyways). I already have very good quality recording of every channel I subscribe to, with no DRM. If I need to expand, i have full faith that if sage/google doesn't release a way to do it, I can figure one out on my own, or just buy a used HD300 for the more than likely reduced by then price on eBay.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Just be glad you don't have a 1080p, 7.1, scope front projection system, with >1200W of power and room treatments.



Point is, since it's not in the same interface, it's no better (user interaction wise) than a separate box and a good universal remote.

Actually I do have 1080p and an expensive aperion audio system so those are important to me. That is why the pc is hooked in there and to be honest the picture of bluray is better from the new sandybridge processor than it was on the hd300 plus I get 3d and native Netflix support in there now not to mention tubecore and some of the other great online addins.so that is a moot point. All the other tvs are 720p at best and even if they weren't we only watch movies in the theater room anyhow besides Netflix.

So again it works great for me so far and most households will fit the same bill and only need hd audio and 1080p in one room. Even the downconverted rips blow any hd satellite or cable feed away in quality. So I just don't buy the extenders are crap sorry. They aren't as great as sagetv in codec support no but far from crap.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by heatvent

Wow, lots of quotes in this thread gone wild. Anyhoo, what I really liked about Sage's extenders and they weren't workarounds. I initially tried Sage and WMC via a PC card. I tried multiple cards, multiple codecs, etc. and ran into issues with it being choppy at times or the TV comes on but I have to restart the app to get the HDMI out to work, and so on. Since the minute I plugged in my exenders, I didn't really have to tweak anything other than initial overscan/setup and they just worked. No noise, low power, small, played HD, could do anything I could do on the Sage PC app...they basically had it all; and for just $150. So for me, plug and play and less money added up to SageTV as my choice. The main things that might flip the scale for me since I started with Sage are (1) Sage will no longer be developed, (2) power pack 3 on WHS with some MC support, and (3) the HDHomeRun prime that is being released this month. A bit pricey but 3 tuners and cablecard that are served over network that I could connect to with any MC PC or through an extender. Netflix, easy guide setup and snazzy interface are just icing. Very tempting.

Agree I had the same issues with a pc but the sandy bridge integrated video just plain works all except the 24hz problem I am having it is nothing like my last experience with client pcs. Tmt is nice and integrated with wmc pretty well. Native Netflix and tubecore are very very nice. Overall I am losing some features but not allot. Even the wife commented it was nice to have so many tuners and not worry about them locking up or shutting off.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Point is, since it's not in the same interface, it's no better (user interaction wise) than a separate box and a good universal remote.

Interaction wise no but when you have 4 seperate flat panel mounted tvs it is hard enough to conceal one box let alone two. So having it one box is an advantage for me there.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by OneOfMany

Hmmm.. I run four dedicated Clients behind a firewall. I also am in IT. What do I really need the updates for? And I could rollback if one became an issue.

Last I checked, nearly every update MS released was for a security issue. Are you saying that you don't need to patch Windows as long as you have a firewall? If so, I definitely disagree with that.

If it's working, why would you need a driver update?

Just because it's working today, doesn't mean something won't break with a Windows update or some other software conflict. I may also decide to update the OS. The "frozen in time" idea for my systems simply is unacceptable to me. When the mobo or some other piece of hardware dies, I may not be able to get drivers for the cryogenic system.

I'd also like to try out the Colossus, using HDMI, which will require new drivers.

If you have upgrade your STB to one that has no outputs, I can see this causing problems with any solution.

I'm not quite sure how a STB would work without any outputs. Wireless? Vulcan mind meld? I assume you mean if the component outputs are removed or disabled. That being the case, the HDFury will be my next purchase.

Somehow I doubt that Sage7 wont run on Win8 next year. And with half (it seems) of the users on here still running XP! I guess I could run Win7 on my dedicated box another couple if neccessary.

You could be right. We don't know. I may find I need more memory and that might cause conflicts. Quite a few things could pop up as time goes on. Again, I'm not okay with cryogenics.

Around here, they are so desperate for business, I could get it same day.. probably delivered lol.

Ha. I wish!

Even if "live TV were to stop for a week, there's enough archived to easily cover it at my house.

If only everyone were so easy to please. That may explain why you're okay with the stance you're taking.

[OneOfMany]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Last I checked, nearly every update MS released was for a security issue. Are you saying that you don't need to patch Windows as long as you have a firewall? If so, I definitely disagree with that.
.

On a dedicated Sage Client box that never goes to the desktop or a browser - it is a non-issue. And I can't say that I have ever seen an update that affected the installation or operation of a piece of software.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I may also decide to update the OS. The "frozen in time" idea for my systems simply is unacceptable to me.
.

Are you telling me in all honesty that you upgrade every piece of software when you have upgraded Windows OS.. c'mon. If you're in IT, you'd never make this stement lol..

Originally Posted by Skirge01

When the mobo or some other piece of hardware dies, I may not be able to get drivers for the cryogenic system.
.

Hmm.. build new box, install any hardware, and reinstall Client? It's a PC, it'll reinstall on anything regadless of hardware. I do it regularly.. Try ShadowProtect (surprised you dont use it) and you can clone your HD HAL-free my friend.

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'd also like to try out the Colossus, using HDMI, which will require new drivers.
.

OK..

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'm not quite sure how a STB would work without any outputs. Wireless? Vulcan mind meld? I assume you mean if the component outputs are removed or disabled. That being the case, the HDFury will be my next purchase.
.

Just remarking on your concern that your STB might change..

Originally Posted by Skirge01

You could be right. We don't know. I may find I need more memory and that might cause conflicts. Quite a few things could pop up as time goes on. Again, I'm not okay with cryogenics.
.

I guess if you run SageTV on your everyday desktop system anything can happen years from now. My Sage Clients are just extenders. I guess if something radical came along like interactive two way video immersion, a change would be required

All in fun,
Grant

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by OneOfMany

On a dedicated Sage Client box that never goes to the desktop or a browser - it is a non-issue. And I can't say that I have ever seen an update that affected the installation or operation of a piece of software.

The family browses the internet all the time on the PC. If that weren't the case, I'd have an extender there.

Are you telling me in all honesty that you upgrade every piece of software when you have upgraded Windows OS.. c'mon. If you're in IT, you'd never make this stement lol..

You were asking why I would need to update the drivers. If you upgrade the OS, EVERYTHING gets updated. If you were in IT, you'd know that.

Hmm.. build new box, install any hardware, and reinstall Client? It's a PC, it'll reinstall on anything regadless of hardware. I do it regularly.. Try ShadowProtect (surprised you dont use it) and you can clone your HD HAL-free my friend.

Again, if you were in IT (or even just around computers long enough), you'd know that not reinstalling the OS when you build a new computer is just begging for problems. I prefer stability.

I guess if you run SageTV on your everyday desktop system anything can happen years from now. My Sage Clients are just extenders. I guess if something radical came along like interactive two way video immersion, a change would be required

I've upgraded the GPU on one of my client PC's 3 times since it was first built. Once, to get HD playback via hardware acceleration; another time, to get bitstreaming; a final time to get an HDMI output. Not exactly radical changes, but they certainly required a hardware change and driver updates.

I do find it amazing how someone's seemingly simple decision to proactively look for alternatives causes such animosity around here. God help the guys who have the audacity to come here and say they're switching to WMC.

For the record, I actually enjoyed the exchange with Gerry and I think it stayed quite friendly. Too bad it doesn't always work out that way.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Again, if you were in IT (or even just around computers long enough), you'd know that not reinstalling the OS when you build a new computer is just begging for problems. I prefer stability.

I really hope that isn't what he meant. What is this "it" you speak of?

I do find it amazing how someone's seemingly simple decision to proactively look for alternatives causes such animosity around here. God help the guys who have the audacity to come here and say they're switching to WMC.

I'll switch to WMC when sage stops working and I can't fix it. I've seen that it will do everything I do now. No extenders, but network tuners can be used to overcome that fact. Mostly. Won't be finding out anytime soon. I hope I don't have to.

[OneOfMany]

Sorry to get your dander in a fluff Skirge.. Didn't realize that upgrading hardware was such a difficult process. Owning two computer stores for almost 16 years now, with lots of techs, and dealing with businesses on these very issues, I guess I just feel more comfortable with it lol.

Grant



Just imaged my ASUS laptop, and loaded in on A Gigabyte mobo S1156 w/system. Add drivers, install Sage Client and go. Definitely a nice piece of software.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

For the record, I actually enjoyed the exchange with Gerry and I think it stayed quite friendly. Too bad it doesn't always work out that way.

As did I.

Gerry

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by OneOfMany

Just imaged my ASUS laptop, and loaded in on A Gigabyte mobo S1156 w/system. Add drivers, install Sage Client and go. Definitely a nice piece of software.

wow that is not how is would do it at all. Clearing drivers and installing a new motherboard in a system. Windows 7 is a bit better at this but still leaves around garbage that can cause issues. Everytime I major change like a motherboard happens fresh installs is the only reliable way to go without an egg sneaking up on you. Now same motherboard for same motherboard no issue. That is why there is is partitions and then everything else

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

wow that is not how is would do it at all. Clearing drivers and installing a new motherboard in a system. Windows 7 is a bit better at this but still leaves around garbage that can cause issues. Everytime I major change like a motherboard happens fresh installs is the only reliable way to go without an egg sneaking up on you. Now same motherboard for same motherboard no issue. That is why there is is partitions and then everything else

That's why there are backup/restore solutions that clear out all the HAL settings/history (like ShadowProtect). So your software configuration remains the same, but hardware configuration reverts essentially to first-run status.