Ceton InfiniTV4 problems in a FiOS environment

[ckewinjones]

I am having problems using the Ceton InfiniTV4. I re-configured everything when we recently changed from Comcast to Verizon FiOS, and for a few weeks everything was going swimmingly. But in the past week or so, I am getting either a black screen with a "No Signal" message in the middle of the screen, or (more often) a Sage message box saying Error(-10) No tuners available to encode this channel.

Most of the time if I re-boot the Sage server the problem goes away (for a while), although tonight the problem recurred once even after a re-boot. I have opened a trouble ticket with Ceton and send them a couple of diagnostic packages, but so far they have not found anything untoward in the diagnostic files. At Ceton's suggestion, I verified that when the problem occurs, the InfiniTV4 tuners can still be used successfully from Windows Media Center. This suggests that the problem is occurring in the SageTV software or at the SageDCT layer.

Here is my setup:

Gateway PC running Windows 7 64 bit
SageTV V7.0.23.246
SageDCT v2.0
Ceton InfiniTV4
Firmware 1.0.3.2
Hardware 4884
Driver 1.1.0.8-20110309

Any suggestions as to how to troubleshoot this (or fix it!) would be most appreciated -- WAF plummeting.

[King of Bayonne]

After initial success followed by some "Halt Detected" issues, I now have a 100% rock-solid setup that has been working flawlessly for over a month. A few suggestions:

1) Upgrade your software to the latest revs. Differences between my environment and yours:

SageTV 7.1.9
SageDCT 2.1.8
Ceton firmware 1.0.9.5
Ceton driver 1.5.4304.6

2) Check your signal levels at the Ceton using the MCIA Digital Cable Tuner Diagnostics Tool. Despite the fact that the signal coming out of your FiOS ONT is usually very hot, I found that the Ceton wanted the signal to be *uber* hot. After much experimentation, I was able to come up with a combination of high-quality splitters that provided a very hot signal to the Ceton and (much less fussy) PVR-2250 in my Sage server and still provided good signal to the "rest of the house" splitter that feeds the FiOS STBs and router.


KoB

[ckewinjones]

Thanks, Your Majesty.

I've been reluctant to upgrade my SageTV software because I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to recover if something goes wrong (e.g. original install files, license keys, etc.) and given the (at best) ambiguous status of SageTV as a supported product I am not sure that Google/Sage would be able/willing to help me recover in the event of a catastrophe. With these tuner problems WAF is hovering near zero, but if I lost SageTV entirely it would head into the imaginary quadrant of the complex plane!

Nevertheless if it's necessary I'll do it. With SageDCT and Ceton I am more confident of support if there are issues.

I Googled the DCT Diagnostic tool and was not able to locate anywhere to D/L the tool from. Can you give me a link where I can D/L or purchase the tool?

Thanks again.

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

I've been reluctant to upgrade my SageTV software because I'm not sure I have the wherewithal to recover if something goes wrong (e.g. original install files, license keys, etc.) and given the (at best) ambiguous status of SageTV as a supported product I am not sure that Google/Sage would be able/willing to help me recover in the event of a catastrophe.

IIRC SageDCT either needs SageTV 7.1.x or some updated base SageTV files added to 7.0.x to correct certain problems (details should be on babgvant's SageDCT web page). IMHO the best and safest solution is to simply upgrade to 7.1.9. My in-place Sage upgrades have always gone flawlessly, especially for minor release -> minor release.

As an aside, a few weeks ago I lost my "text copy" of my Sage license keys due to a server crash... my Sage equipment was still running fine, but obviously I wanted to have a text copy of my license keys in case I needed to reinstall down the road. I sent email to "orders@sagetv.com" and they responded very quickly with the info.

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

I Googled the DCT Diagnostic tool and was not able to locate anywhere to D/L the tool from. Can you give me a link where I can D/L or purchase the tool?

It's a free download, available from The Green Button:

http://experts.windows.com/windows_m...rs/451891.aspx


KoB

[mtnwing]

"I was able to come up with a combination of high-quality splitters that provided a very hot signal to the Ceton and (much less fussy) PVR-2250 in my Sage server and still provided good signal to the "rest of the house" splitter that feeds the FiOS STBs and router."

Can you provide info on what brand and location where one might find the high quality splitters that are working for you?

I recently moved and am having "no signal" issues on some channels but not all. This is a brand new and clean HTPC build with nothing but SageTV 7.1.9 and SageDCT loaded on an i7 3.5 with 16GB RAM and Sage running on an SSD drive. Reboot sometimes solves the problem but not consistently for me. I believe it is signal related as I can find no other issues or reasons. Also wondering if you are using any kind of signal amplifiers. I am running Comcast with Sci Atl cablecard and the latest Ceton 1.5.4304.6 driver package version and 1.0.2.4 PCIe driver, firmware version 1.1.2.4 and hardware version 4884.

One thing I've also noticed is that my cable box receives the signals for these channels just fine while the Ceton + Sage seem to have issues on the same exact channels. These are definitely not premium / encrypted channels so it should work if all things were in order.

[macsupergeek]

For everyone's issues did you also change the write buffer to 8192 and rtp to 65536, as suggested elsewhere in the forum, that eliminates stutter and halts I was also wondering if WMC still uses the card and sagetv isn't happy with it then maybe its a signaling latency thing that this correction would fix.

I have one card in the machine right now, 2nd card was DOA, getting a replacement from ceton this week -- can't wait to be able to tune/record 8 channels at once -- now that's just silly. Ultimately replacing -- 2 STBs and 2 HD-PVRs tuned off of USB UIRT and then 2 x 2250s, much simpler and more elegant this way and also will be some power savings I would think.

Also odd that I will be able to tune and record 8 channels at once including premiums like HBO, showtime and starz and now that I am returning 2 x STBs, which meant I was only getting 2 channels, I will actually save about $10 on my verizon bill.

My only issue now is that the stream that DCT produces, Sagetv doesn't always like to transcode -- I have found that if I remux the stream with videoredo then the files transcode no problem, but on average there about 10-20 stream/sync errors that are corrected in the files, that kills the transcode process before it even starts.

[King of Bayonne]

Sorry for taking so long to reply...

@macsupergeek: I did mess around a bit with the buffering parameters, but I believe that those tweaks will be most helpful to folks using their Ceton in a "true network config" (i.e. Ceton is in a different physical box than the Sage server and accessed over an Ethernet LAN). In my case, the Ceton is in my Sage server box (localhost config).

@mtnwing: I am not using any kind of distribution amps. My understanding is that many/most/all? distr amps interfere with the return path for STB/CableCard communications. Besides, the FiOS signal coming out of the ONT is plenty hot; the issue is that, at least in my experience, the Ceton wants to see an uber-hot signal, and while a "lazy split" (e.g. a single good-quality 8-way splitter) worked just dandy for the STBs, my PVR-2250, and everything else, the lower signal level gave the Ceton fits on a handful of channels.

As an engineer, I'm not going to just rule out that there may have been other factors at play, but extensive testing with the DCT Diagnostics Tool showed signal levels on a small number of channels that were significantly lower than all the rest... and it was those very same channels that were affected by halts. Too closely related to be a coincidence...

My current signal path:

ONT feeds a Verizon-provided low-pass filter (recommended by Ceton). This then feeds an Ideal 2GHz 3-way splitter (Ideal part number 85-333, found here, purchased at Lowe's). One output of this splitter is connected to the Ceton, and a second output is connected to the PVR-2250, ensuring that they both have hot signals.

The third output is connected to a Radio Shack 4-Way Gold Plated Bidirectional Splitter (Radio Shack part number 15-2588, found here, purchased at Radio Shack). One output of this splitter is connected to the the Verizon-supplied router; the other three outputs are available for connection to STBs.

Since implementing this cabling change I have had ZERO Halt Detected errors.

Hope this is useful...


KoB

[macsupergeek]

I have an 8 way splitter on mine that I then terminated 5 of the ports as I have 2 going to my ceton cards and 1 going to my cable modem. I get very sporadic halts, but I will run the diags and see what my levels are. I also have a three way splitter from verizon and I will see if I can amp up the signal to completely stop the halts.

Also what are you doing about transcoding the files. Sage won't do it in the sagetranscoder.exe for me and mediashrink also fails. I have to re-mux the files before I can do anything to them.

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by macsupergeek

Also what are you doing about transcoding the files. Sage won't do it in the sagetranscoder.exe for me and mediashrink also fails. I have to re-mux the files before I can do anything to them.

Nothing. I'm not transcoding any files. So I guess it's not a problem for me.


KoB

[ckewinjones]

King,

Thanks for this information. I have a low-pass filter which I've never installed; the information I've been given so far suggested that it probably would not help.

I'm a little puzzled by the network topology that you describe. I thought the reason for the low-pass filter was that the part of the spectrum blocked by the filter contained data necessary for the STBs but problematic for the Ceton card. Accordingly, I was told to install the filter immediately upstream of the Ceton card.

You, on the other hand, have installed the filter immediately downstream of the ONT, and upstream of all the devices on your network. If the spectrum blocked by the LPF is needed for STB management, I should think you would have a problem. Are your STBs behaving properly?

Another curiosity about your topology is that there are two splitters between ONT and your cable modem. I should be afraid that the attenuation introduced by the splitters might interfere with internet throughput. Is your Internat bandwidth OK with this topology?

I should note that, given your advice up-thread, I have upgraded all my software and firmware to the latest versions and this seems to have almost (but not quite) completely solved my Halts problems. I get a drop every now and again, but for the most part the Ceton and the Sage software stack have been performing like a champ. When I get home tonight I'll compare my network topology with the one that you describe. I bet if I conform my network to yours, the last of my Halts problems will go away.

Thanks very much for sharing the benefit of your experience.

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

King,

Thanks for this information. I have a low-pass filter which I've never installed; the information I've been given so far suggested that it probably would not help.

I'm a little puzzled by the network topology that you describe. I thought the reason for the low-pass filter was that the part of the spectrum blocked by the filter contained data necessary for the STBs but problematic for the Ceton card.

Remember that it is a low-pass filter, which means that everything BELOW the filter frequency PASSES; all of the stuff ABOVE the filter frequency is blocked. My understanding is that there is, to use the technical engineering term, "crap" in the signal above the band of frequencies in which the downstream TV signals and upstream return communications live. The STBs, routers, etc are not affected by the "crap", but the Ceton cards are. So Ceton urges you to install the low pass filter.

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

Accordingly, I was told to install the filter immediately upstream of the Ceton card.

You, on the other hand, have installed the filter immediately downstream of the ONT, and upstream of all the devices on your network. If the spectrum blocked by the LPF is needed for STB management, I should think you would have a problem. Are your STBs behaving properly?

The Verizon tech installed the filter in its current location (directly downstream of the ONT) and, based on my understanding described above, it seemed as good a place to put it as any. If it was going to impact the STBs or the router, then obviously the right place to put it would be in the feed line to the Ceton.

All functions of my STBs and router work flawlessly, so I suspect he got it right.

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

Another curiosity about your topology is that there are two splitters between ONT and your cable modem. I should be afraid that the attenuation introduced by the splitters might interfere with internet throughput. Is your Internet bandwidth OK with this topology?

The signal coming out of the ONT is *really* hot. Further, in my experience you'd have to beat the snot out of the signal to impact your network performance. At one point (pre-Ceton) I had the cable from the ONT go through two really dumpster-quality 8-way splitters before it got to the router (like 24dB loss total) and speed tests still showed the connection working at full speed.

Having said that, I don't actually use the Verizon router for my Internet connection. I have a UTP cable connection coming out of the ONT which feeds my homebuilt firewall/router and whole-house Cat6/gigabit wiring infrastructure. My Verizon router isn't even used for wireless. The only thing it does for me is provide a MoCa network interface for the STBs to use (it's a pity the STBs don't have RJ-45 jacks too).

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

Thanks very much for sharing the benefit of your experience.

My pleasure.


KoB

[ckewinjones]

One more thought vis-à-vis the placement of the LPF.

Are you using FiOS for phone as well as TV and Internet? We are. I wonder whether the "crap" in the upper frequencies is related to telephony. If so, I would want to put the LPF right in front of the Ceton.

I guess I am having trouble with the notion that Verizon would put "crap" into their signal that doesn't serve any purpose for any of their services. But then, I'm a software engineer, not a real engineer, so I don't understand technical engineering terms like "crap."

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

One more thought vis-à-vis the placement of the LPF.

Are you using FiOS for phone as well as TV and Internet? We are. I wonder whether the "crap" in the upper frequencies is related to telephony. If so, I would want to put the LPF right in front of the Ceton.

I have FiOS phone/TV/Internet and they all work flawlessly with the LPF in place in its current location.

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

I guess I am having trouble with the notion that Verizon would put "crap" into their signal that doesn't serve any purpose for any of their services. But then, I'm a software engineer, not a real engineer, so I don't understand technical engineering terms like "crap."

From what I have seen in other postings, the "crap" doesn't actually come from the ONT at all; it's signal artifacts that originate in the MoCa implementations on some of the routers Verizon provides (most notably the ActionTec flavors). Apparently virtually everything else that's connected to the coax (STBs, other tuner cards, etc) aren't affected but the Ceton is particularly sensitive. Installing the filter remedies the situation with the Ceton and none of the other devices "care", so they are unaffected.

If you'll sleep better at night, by all means put the LPF just ahead of (only) your Ceton... since it's the only thing that "cares" about the filter, it's a perfectly fine and logical place to put it. I am only providing the data point that, whether out of wisdom or ignorance, the FiOS tech installed my LPF immediately downstream of the ONT and everything works exactly as expected.


KoB

[King of Bayonne]

Originally Posted by ckewinjones

But then, I'm a software engineer, not a real engineer, so I don't understand technical engineering terms like "crap."

Hey, I'm a software engineer too... and we *ARE* "real engineers". We just like to keep a low profile about it.


KoB

[macsupergeek]

So it finally happened. FIOS finally "locked" down the premium channels. This past weekend FIOS changed the CCI flag on HBO, STARZ, and ENCORE to 0x02 "copy once" which means I can't record any of those channels, nor can I even watch them through SageTV and the Ceton. They play fine enough in WMC, but when I browse to those channels using the CETON utility sure enough they have the copy flag set. A call to them and theri response was that they did nothing and they changed nothing. My ticket/case has been created and I am still awaiting a response from someone in the know of these copy flag type of things. I know they did some EPG updates this past weekend and killed VOD for a time, but it seems they did a little more than what they are willing to admit or that the call center was told. The proof would be that I have episodes 1-9 of Spartacus recorded using a Ceton tuner and couldn't do the Season finale episode 10 as I was locked out. They tried telling me that it was me and that I did something and that I set the flag and locked myself out and there was nothing on their end that they could fix. Oddly enough Showtime and TMC are both still "copy free". Good thing I still had my cable boxes and had not returned them yet, so I resetup the HD-PVRs and resetup the premium channels to only on those and I was back in business tuning away, but still its kind of sad. I wonder if this CCI flag stops Tivo's too completely, I think it definitely takes out their ability to do multi-room. And I wonder how this will effect Ceton's Echo and Q offering -- as I can watch TV using WMC, but I can't record and play that content back with the 0x02 flag, which if Ceton is depending on WMC 7 to do that then that's shot.

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by macsupergeek

So it finally happened. FIOS finally "locked" down the premium channels. This past weekend FIOS changed the CCI flag on HBO, STARZ, and ENCORE to 0x02 "copy once" which means I can't record any of those channels, nor can I even watch them through SageTV and the Ceton. They play fine enough in WMC, but when I browse to those channels using the CETON utility sure enough they have the copy flag set. A call to them and theri response was that they did nothing and they changed nothing. My ticket/case has been created and I am still awaiting a response from someone in the know of these copy flag type of things. I know they did some EPG updates this past weekend and killed VOD for a time, but it seems they did a little more than what they are willing to admit or that the call center was told. The proof would be that I have episodes 1-9 of Spartacus recorded using a Ceton tuner and couldn't do the Season finale episode 10 as I was locked out. They tried telling me that it was me and that I did something and that I set the flag and locked myself out and there was nothing on their end that they could fix. Oddly enough Showtime and TMC are both still "copy free". Good thing I still had my cable boxes and had not returned them yet, so I resetup the HD-PVRs and resetup the premium channels to only on those and I was back in business tuning away, but still its kind of sad. I wonder if this CCI flag stops Tivo's too completely, I think it definitely takes out their ability to do multi-room. And I wonder how this will effect Ceton's Echo and Q offering -- as I can watch TV using WMC, but I can't record and play that content back with the 0x02 flag, which if Ceton is depending on WMC 7 to do that then that's shot.

I had the same problem last night. Some people think it is because of the free promotional weekend for HBO etc and that hopefully things will go back to normal when the promotion ends tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

[macsupergeek]

Looks like you were right ToxMox, all channels that were set as 0x02 are now back to 00 and working just fine again. How do we know when these promos come up. I don't remember seeing anything on the my.verizon.net webpage about a free weekend promo.

[macsupergeek]

I ran through all the channels and it seems that they forgot a couple of flags, HBO seemed OK, but encore did not, my STBs can't tune any of the channels and the CETON cards can tune most all the encore channels ie mystery, drama, family, etc except like 2 of them 354 encore7 westerns and 360 encore5. At first 901 HBO HD w and 840 STARZHD didn't work, but after checking the other HBOs and STARZ, I went back and checked those channels and their copy flags were back to 00 and they were working once again, so maybe they were still in the process of updating and I will have to check those channels again. Still its kind of annoying and I hope there aren't anymore of these free weekends.

[darcilicious]

This site lists free previews http://www.freepreview.tv/ -- I'd say they have about an 85% accuracy or better for Vz (or that was the case when I was still on Vz).

Free weekends (for movie channels / showtime / hbo type channels) have typically happened about twice a year on Vz -- spring (often around premieres like this weekend's season two of Game of Thrones) and fall (again often around premieres).

There are also usually a few sports related ones about once a year for some sports.

[macsupergeek]

yup I found that page and I set their facebook page as a "like" so that I can see when they are coming, so it doesn't catch off guard again.