WMC Live TV Tuner

[Deano]

OK. Today was a big step forward.

I decided to install Win 7 (instead of 10). Got everything working, including the guide using EPG123. I can easily start WMC and tune to any channel I want. Works flawlessly.

So. I've stopped for the day (or two) to take a break. The next step is to figure out how the WMC feed gets it's way into SageTV. Any pointers would be hugely helpful and appreciated. Upon early reading, it looks like I need a capture device to connect to (like my STB is connected to a Hauppauge HDPVR). Tons of reading still to do.....

[TGsell]

Nice work! I use the Hauppauge HDPVR2 gaming device because I had these with my set top box configuration. There are multiple capture device options many discussed in this forum however these are the only I have experience with. Note that you will need an HDMI splitter from Amazon eg

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

to strip HDCP (or rather emulate HDCP compliance). One side benefit of this is you can use one of the outputs to a monitor in case you need to work on the WMC machine once its up and running. I also use RealVNC server (on the WMC machine obviously) and Viewer on (any other machine with a monitor) to check in on the WMC machine and make tweaks as needed. Essentially the WMC machine is 'headless' . There are a couple of tweaks needed to get the WMCLive Controller working - you have to be running 64bit for the WMCmachine and I believe the Sage server as well. Good luck -

[Deano]

Thanks for the reply.

Are you able to use multiple HDPVRs on the same machine (as the HDHR has 3 tuners)?

Didn't know about the HDMI thinggy....I'll have to look more into that.

[TGsell]

Yes -- you can use multiple HDPVRs - I am using two but I can see how it can get confusing with more since Sage sees them as Sienna Video , and then Sienna Videos #1,. The main challenge will be controlling more than two with the WMV Live controller EXEMultituner. I had to write a custom script which was simple enough for 2 machines (with lots of help from this forum). I imagine you could control 3 machines - just assign each a different 'label' and direct the controller to each specific IP address. Also - one caution re Windows7 - I think you will need both 8gb or more ram and an SSD drive to keep that machine running full time. Once WMC is started and tunes on a machine it''s constantly recording to the pause buffer and my experience with W8.1 is that it eats and locks up memory which eventually requires a reboot. If you don't mind doing this every few days then no problem.

[Deano]

Interesting points.

So, that begs a couple / few questions:

1. How would I connect multiple capture devices (like an HDPVR) to a single computer running WMC? There's only a single HDMI port.

2. Understanding the memory issue, the only reason I installed Win7 was that I was having issues with DRM channels (i.e. ESPN). Read that it was driven by the Win10 installation. It sounds like you have a workaround. I'd be interested in learning how to do that. I had previously installed Win10 1511 and an old HDHR app. What's the "trick"?

3. I've been reading the forum and saw where back in like September you were working on ways to change channels on a single computer but using different tuners. Any pointers? Tips? Help? Copies of what you did?

Thanks a million....

[KryptoNyte]

1) You just connect (1) HDPVR to each WMC computer. I use Xbox360 extenders instead and record in 1080p.

2) I don't have any memory or DRM issues with a single Win 7 WMC machine feeding the Xbox360 extenders.

3) If you use the EXEMultituner the original post for this thread and THIS POST may help.

[TGsell]

Good points -- I was stuck with the HDPVRs but Xboxs are a better alternative - which I might get going. great support and programming! thanks

[KryptoNyte]

I had nothing to do with the programming, I was just standing on the shoulders of others much smarter than myself!

I have never tried the method that you use, so I can't really compare the quality of the video capture - you may be right that recording from the HDMI of a WMC PC directly may be better - I don't really know.

The Xbox360's give off a fairly serious amount of heat, each one of them, so I can't really say that's the right solution. A very power efficient laptop with WMC installed may be a better option. I would be interested to hear from various folks on this.

With the Xbox's you still need the video capture device, and HDPVR[2], or one of those network encoders.

[KryptoNyte]

If you do decide to go the Xbox360 route with the HDPVR2 (WITH OPTICAL SPDIF AUDIO INPUT, there are many without it), then I recommend the Xbox360 slim 4gb with optical output (looks like a bow-tie from the front), not the Xbox360e.

If you purchase a network encoder instead of the HDPVR2, it probably doesn't matter as you won't get 5.1 channel audio anyway.

[Deano]

OK....so I think I've confused myself some on this.

I have a machine running WMC that can speak to (pull from) an HDHomeRun Prime. The Prime can tune up to 3 feeds at any one time with the installed CableCARD. That's the "start" of the process for recording shows.

Then, on the "end" part of the recording shows is SageTV, where I have the recorded shows saved to an internal hard drive on the Sage computer. That's what we use to surf and navigate to shows we want to watch.

So, there's the "stuff" in the middle. Y'all are talking about XBOX360s, HDPVRs, and mention of a Hauppauge Colossus. I guess I'm confused as to what all goes in between the WMC computer and the SageTV computer.

An XBOX360 connected to an "encoder"?

Sorry for being dense.....thought I understood this, but realizing there are steps and components I've missed

[TGsell]

no worries! thats why this forum is so helpful. First, you do need a separate WMC for each channel you want to tune (pretty obvious). So I started with one , using one of the three tuners available. So for each WMC machine you need:

A device to 'break the HDCP' like the one in a previous post (eg Amazon)

A capture device that Sage recognizes. I am using HDPVR2 Gaming etc but I have always been tempted to try a network encoder. The software (Capture) for the HDPVR allows some tweaking of settings - I am allegedly capturing 1080p however can't be sure but the quality is good enough for me. You can run the software to view what's going on with the WMC machine so it's good for diagnostics

Once you get this far - you have to add the capture device as Video Source, and the WMCLive Controller 'programs' referenced in this thread to get Sage to tune the WMC machine to the right channel.

[boukmandutty]

It all depends on if you need any of that. The people using xbox 360s and hdpvrs and such tend to be in situations where the channels they want to watch have drm copy protection on them and so SageTV cannot directly get the feed from the hdhomerun or ceton device.

hdpvr 2: https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/prod...ta_hdpvr2.html

colossus 2: https://www.hauppauge.com/pages/prod...colossus2.html

What they do with the WMC Live TV Tuner system being described here is to have windows media center send the signal to the xbox 360 or other type of extender to be decrypted, and then capture the resulting feed over hdmi using the hdpvr encoder.

Sagetv captures the decrypted feed from that extender for channels that have drm protection on them. The other option is to capture directly from the computer/computers running windows media center.

If the channels you get using the cable card do no have drm protection on them then you don't need to use this system

[Deano]

Roger to all...

So, because I'm looking to capture DRM channels, then I MUST have some capture device (HDPVR, XBOX360) that the WMC computer will send to. Then, I can pull that feed into SageTV (in a similar fashion as I'm currently doing with a STB and an old HDPVR).

[KryptoNyte]

Just to be clear, you do have channels that will not tune from the Prime using OpenDCT because of the copy-once CCI flag? The cablecard and OpenDCT gets past the first level of DRM, but the second level of DRM - CCI flags like "copy-once" require the additional equipment. Many folks with legacy Charter Cable can record from the Prime directly to Sage.

[Deano]

Well I'm not exactly sure.

Is there some easy way to check? Well, besides hooking up the Prime to Sage and going channel by channel that is.

[KryptoNyte]

I have a Ceton tuner, but yeah, that's how I do it. I go one channel at a time and check the cablecard statics from the Ceton tuner webpage.

Who is your cable provider, and have they been that same cable provider for at least 10 years in your area?

[boukmandutty]

1. Go to "My Computer" (Or "This PC" depending on the version of windows you are runing). You should see your hdhomerun device listed under "Network Locations"

2. Right Click on the hdhomerun devices and click "Properties" at the bottom of the menu that pops up.

3. From the Properties window that pops up click the link for the "Device webpage"

When the webpage loads choose "Channel Lineup". You will see your channels listed. Look for the ones that have the label DRM affixed to them. Those are the ones that will have to set up with WMC extenders if they are important to you to record from. If you have nothing with DRM then you are all good and should share with us where you live so that we might all move to that DRM free heaven...

[Deano]

OK. I'll check.

Yes, same cable company for many years (north of 10 for sure). Spectrum (was Comcast).

It's "back to work" day, so I won't have an opportunity to try the HDHR route (sounds simple and quick) until at least this weekend.

Oh, and I'm in southern CA, north of LA

[UgaData]

@Deano, based on an earlier post, if all you want is 3 more streams - the WMC Live TV Tuner is most likely overkill (I'm thinking Rube Goldberg here). Sure, it will work but there are easier ways. (if you're just looking for a new project- pay no attention my post).

If you are wanting to record the premium/movie channels (also referred to as DRM channels - like HBO, Starz, Showtime, etc - there maybe be others.) then this is one way to do so without renting one or more cable boxes.

Essentially, you would be using the WMC machine (and any extenders) as a replacement for the cable box. Besides the WMC machine, you need an HDMI splitter (to remove HDCP) and either a Media Streamer (network) device, an HDPVR unit (USB), or Colossus (internal PCI Slot) which will be used to bring the recording into Sage. Besides not paying fees on one or more cable boxes using one WMC machine allows for capturing of multiple streams or shows, with the use of extenders (which basically means XBox 360 -if you find one, a Ceton Echo would work as well)

My apologies if I over explained or told you what you already knew - based on some of your questions, I hope this helps.

F.W.I.W. I looked into this in the past but I chose to load the SageTV client on a working WMC setup (Windows 7) and switched between Sage and WMC when I wanted watch DRM content. Not as nice as having all in Sage but it worked well enough - I was able to switch and forth just using an MCE remote.

[TGsell]

UgaData -- this is essentially my setup (2 dedicated WMC machines, splitters, HDPVRs) for all my premium channels, (my OTA reception is excellent fortunately so that takes care of the rest). It's certainly worth the trouble since it replaces at least two STBs @ 11-15$ ea, and has the capability of being viewed through clients, miniclients, or HD300s etc in any location including remotely. AirVideo reading off the Sage recordings folder adds an other element of remote use enabling downloading and watching the files offline.
Another note on the quality through the HDPVRs - Sage reports I am capturing at 1080p/30 which is plenty good for me. The XBoxs might be better (I dont know) however I recall now that I ditched them since they generated a lot of heat. I am wondering if anyone has used the BM1000 network encoder for this kind of setup and if it's worth the better quality if any?