WMC Live TV Tuner

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Okay, never noticed that the network encoder will include the crossname with the call, but it does appear to. If that's the case, than that really is all you'd need to have your network encoder know which device to use, and they'd be a shared resource. You still need a way to have it cleanly deal with the two different lineups, which for me is the bigger issue (making a copy of the cable lineup and simply enabling different channels is one thing, but then the copy is divorced from the original source, so lineup changes from the provider will not propagate to the copy. This is the reason I was investigating restricting channels by device, in addition to the lineups. (this would also help out those with multiple OTA tuners connected to different antenna's pointing in different directions).

I'm using the 3.0 protocol which puts the crossbar in the name of the requested capture device. I think 1.0 doesn't.

I never liked the fact that when you copied a lineup, you had no way to keep that copy updated. Maybe that's what we really should be taking a look at. Add an option to copy new channels from the original lineup when new channels are added to the source lineup would be a nice feature.

I tried what you said I should be able to do with the crossbar and it works, so that greatly simplifies things. Now I'll just create a capture device that presents itself with a Digital TV Tuner and HDMI crossbar. Digital TV Tuner crossbar will be the direct stream and the HDMI crossbar will be the HDMI encoder. There isn't any automation for DRM with this approach, but that shouldn't be a big issue since most people don't have their channels going back and forth at random.

[Fuzzy]

I don't care quite as much about the ability to have copied lineups stay tied to the original source - I understand why they are not. But I do feel that you should be able to configure a list or range of channels that a given tuner is capable of recording, regardless of the lineup that is tied to it. If done as an addition to the CaptureDeviceInput object, it can then be added to the next version of the network encoder protocol, as part of a CHANNELLIST command (as well as a CHANNELSCAN command). This would allow - DCT's especially - to provide a list of physical channels configured and accessible on the tuner. The Channellist and scan feature is not necessary right now, but should be a goal going forward (it should be moved to where anything a native tuner is capable of, a network tuner can do).

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I don't care quite as much about the ability to have copied lineups stay tied to the original source - I understand why they are not. But I do feel that you should be able to configure a list or range of channels that a given tuner is capable of recording, regardless of the lineup that is tied to it. If done as an addition to the CaptureDeviceInput object, it can then be added to the next version of the network encoder protocol, as part of a CHANNELLIST command (as well as a CHANNELSCAN command). This would allow - DCT's especially - to provide a list of physical channels configured and accessible on the tuner. The Channellist and scan feature is not necessary right now, but should be a goal going forward (it should be moved to where anything a native tuner is capable of, a network tuner can do).

I understand some of the reasons why you would not tie them together. It would probably be better to have the option to create a "standalone" copy or create a "linked" copy that is the exact same lineup only differing by what channels are enabled.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, CHANNELLIST would be called every time the scheduler runs per enabled crossbar? The only DCT that can provide an instant list of what it can tune and if DRM is present is the HDHomeRun Prime. The InfiniTV devices can also provide a list of what they can tune, but it includes everything you aren't subscribed to and doesn't indicate what has DRM applied. OpenDCT does keep track of what tunes in with DRM, but unless you have offline scanning turned on, the list will be incomplete. The list however would improve over time. My biggest concern isn't that network encoders can use this feature, it's that if it can't be automated in some way, someone would need to work the configuration of this functionality into the UI.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

I understand some of the reasons why you would not tie them together. It would probably be better to have the option to create a "standalone" copy or create a "linked" copy that is the exact same lineup only differing by what channels are enabled.

So if I'm understanding this correctly, CHANNELLIST would be called every time the scheduler runs per enabled crossbar? The only DCT that can provide an instant list of what it can tune and if DRM is present is the HDHomeRun Prime. The InfiniTV devices can also provide a list of what they can tune, but it includes everything you aren't subscribed to and doesn't indicate what has DRM applied. OpenDCT does keep track of what tunes in with DRM, but unless you have offline scanning turned on, the list will be incomplete. The list however would improve over time. My biggest concern isn't that network encoders can use this feature, it's that if it can't be automated in some way, someone would need to work the configuration of this functionality into the UI.

Well, like I said, the Channel List and Scan features are far from necessary at this point. It was more just an idea to close the gap between network and native encoders. It would ultimately be up the network encoder to determine it's behavior for a scan.

[nyplayer]

EnterNoEscape,

Do you issue a channel stop before a channel change.... I noticed that sometimes when watching live TV and I input a new channel I hear a ding and the channels does not change.... If I disable the stop all together channel changes always happen...... Of course this means that the tuner is always running Live TV without the stop.


Edit I see you have 56 out I will install that one and try again.

I think this might have fixed it.
The new property is sagetv.device.<unique_id>.stopping_executable_delay_ms. If the value of this property is 0, the delay is disabled. The default value is 15000.

[nyplayer]

One more thing for those using Windows 8.1 and above ..... always on top is disabled this registry setting fixed that on my Windows 10 WMC.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Settings\MCE.PerUserSettings]
"enableAlwaysOnTop"=dword:00000001

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

EnterNoEscape,

Do you issue a channel stop before a channel change.... I noticed that sometimes when watching live TV and I input a new channel I hear a ding and the channels does not change.... If I disable the stop all together channel changes always happen...... Of course this means that the tuner is always running Live TV without the stop.

The latest OpenDCT beta will delay issuing the stop by default in-case you're channel surfing or just switching to the next recording. When the channel is being changed, the procedure is exactly as listed in the first post. No stop is issued before the channel change as a part of the tune macro.

It would seem we might still have a timing issue. Try changing the stop executable to:

PowerShell.exe -Command Invoke-WebRequest -Uri http://localhost:40510/stop; Start-Sleep 2

That will make it sleep for 2 seconds after the command is executed. If that fixes it, I'll make another change to delay the stopping further.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

The latest OpenDCT beta will delay issuing the stop by default in-case you're channel surfing or just switching to the next recording. When the channel is being changed, the procedure is exactly as listed in the first post. No stop is issued before the channel change as a part of the tune macro.

It would seem we might still have a timing issue. Try changing the stop executable to:

PowerShell.exe -Command Invoke-WebRequest -Uri http://localhost:40510/stop; Start-Sleep 2

That will make it sleep for 2 seconds after the command is executed. If that fixes it, I'll make another change to delay the stopping further.

The latest OpenDCT seems to have fixed it if not I will try the sleep setting.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

One more thing for those using Windows 8.1 and above ..... always on top is disabled this registry setting fixed that on my Windows 10 WMC.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Media Center\Settings\MCE.PerUserSettings]
"enableAlwaysOnTop"=dword:00000001

I added this to the first post so people can find it easier after it gets buried.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

The latest OpenDCT seems to have fixed it if not I will try the sleep setting.

Unfortunately there isn't a way to verify that WMC tuned the right channel via it's own API; it's almost like they saw this coming and made sure it wouldn't be easy. There is a way to go to live tv and positively go to a channel, but that has a few downsides. The first one is that you need to do it by callsign. The second one is that sometimes it ends up grabbing a new tuner without actually freeing up the previously used one for a little while. The third one is that because it basically causes the player to stop and start it takes longer.

If reliability really goes down the tubes, I'll add some verification code that will check the respective tuner directly for what channel it has tuned. This would add an additional requirement for ServerWMC to be installed because it will actually pull the tuners in use by each WMC process. It is however unable to tell me what channel is tuned in. Plus it would probably need to leverage OpenDCT for verification which just means you would have even more configuration to deal with.

[nyplayer]

It appears that sometimes windows 10 taskbar steals focus .... so what I did was boot WMC as my windows shell... So it boots directly to WMC without the desktop.... everything works great now.

Open Administrator prompt ... type in gpedit.msc

In the User Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> System folder, open Custom User Interface.
Select Enabled and enter the full path C:\Windows\ehome\ehshell.exe in the Interface file name textbox.
Hit OK and reboot your system. It should now log in and start WMC automatically without showing the start menu and icons first.



Launching Windows Explorer Shell Once It Has Been Replaced

To launch the default Windows desktop shell again while still within the HTPC user account:

[1] Exit the application acting as your shell
[2] Press Ctrl+Alt+Delete
[3] From options select Task Manager
[4] When Windows Task Manager opens select File then New Task (Run...)
[5] In the Open: dialogue box enter Explorer and select OK
[6] The Windows Explorer shell should now launch

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by Telecore

There's some really good stuff going on here. Have you also considered the case where you want to record two DRM shows at the same time, but you only have one Xbox360? You could tell WMC to record one show for later transcoding and transcode the other live. (of course there are issues with live viewing conflicts)

I also have another question - for me WMC is unreliable because the Ceton PCIe 6 tuner "disappears" fairly often, recordings get missed and a re-boot is required. (My other Ceton PCIe6 works fine with SageTV). Does the HDHR Prime+WMC exhibit this problem?

I've been following this and also the AndroidTV option with interest and I now have a HDHR Prime + Nvidia Shield working which can play DRM TV live. I saw that "adb" can be used over USB or "over network". Does this mean it would be possible to control an AndroidTV box via IP instead of USB?

I already have a reliable HD-PVR+STB solution for SageTV but am still considering getting an IPTV encoder. Has anyone actually used the BM3000 version yet?

So, what would be real slick, is if someone figured out a way to launch as many WMC player windows (minimized of course) as a person had tuners, and then determine a way to grab the video and audio from each of those windows, independently, as virtual tuner(s) that Sage could control at will.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

So, what would be real slick, is if someone figured out a way to launch as many WMC player windows (minimized of course) as a person had tuners, and then determine a way to grab the video and audio from each of those windows, independently, as virtual tuner(s) that Sage could control at will.

I've tried this. There are a few issues. One of them is that WMC seems to freeze playback immediately on all but one of the windows. The other one is AV sync is very problematic. I tried for a several months to make software capture an option, but in the end, it's a lot more reliable to just encode the HDMI output. Also many people don't have the CPU power to do this reliably and the quality will be similar to Playon.

[KryptoNyte]

Try harder

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Try harder

Quit bossing me around.

Only one of the problems is that over time the audio drifts away from the video. I did write a program a year ago that will resize the WMC window to a specific resolution and capture the output from the window with the audio, but for some reason I also couldn't get the video frame capture to sync up with the actual video playback framerate even at 60fps.

I also found that the only way to get multiple instance of WMC running is by running multiple accounts. While I can actually capture playback from an account that's not visible, due to what I think are some limitations with multiple user accounts on non-server OS's, the playback freezes until the account is logged back into.

There's also that legal problem that PlayOn runs into from time to time. I do not personally wish to be in the cross-hairs of any content owners.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

There's also that legal problem that PlayOn runs into from time to time. I do not personally wish to be in the cross-hairs of any content owners.

That's very true. I thought that if I dug far enough, I'd find a method for this, similar to the way Playon does it, but it's a different animal. Sorry for the slave driving, you've certainly done more than your fair share already.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

That's very true. I thought that if I dug far enough, I'd find a method for this, similar to the way Playon does it, but it's a different animal. Sorry for the slave driving, you've certainly done more than your fair share already.

You can try OBS Studio (FOSS) with Game Capture mode which basically captures the DirectShow rendering of WMC which is essentially the video playback. The window doesn't even need to be visible, but it can't be minimized. That's the closest I got to something viable, but the playback flickers a lot. If you can actually get smooth playback via this software, I'll look into creating an OpenDCT capture device that can receive RTMP.

[KryptoNyte]

ENE, using the exemultitunerplugin, is there any way that you are aware of to issue the stop command as soon as the recording is completed/terminated?

I'm seeing similar problems with the channel changing sometimes, but not always, and I can't pin down any particular reason yet.

[EnterNoEscape]

As far as I could tell, SageTV doesn't have a mechanism to run a tuning plugin on stop. I don't think we've ever had a situation like this where the content source wasn't desirable to always be on.

I used SJQ when I tried this several years ago to turn everything off when nothing needed by the tuners. It would check every hour at 15 minutes and 45 minutes and if something was scheduled, it would "warm" the device up and tune it into the channel that was about to be captured. If nothing was using any of the tuners, it would turn them all off.

[KryptoNyte]

I don't really mind if it's always on, but it seems that sometimes when I force tune to a different channel (with exemultituner), the channel change just doesn't happen. May have to ditch exemultituner for USB-UIRT. This is probably fodder for another thread.

Thanks.