Does Sage infringe on Tivo copyrights?

[cmaffia]

I cancelled my Tivo service and the customer rep asked me why.. I stated that I built my own PVR/PC solution with pretty much the same features as Tivo without the monthly charges.
The rep said that different names for the same features like Season Pass (My Favorites) and the ability to rate programs as "Watched" and intelligent recording are protected under copyright? Is this true??

[DFranch]

I think TiVo would have about as much luck as Apple had saying that Windows infringed on their copyrighted interface. Apple lost and so would TiVo.

[mbrown3]

No way. I use TiVo too, but this is like the ability to customize what channels show up in your guide...they can't copyright that, unless theirs is so different than everyone's that they have exclusive rights to it...and unfortunately other folks have been doing those kinds of things for years.

[mls]

I guess the distinction is between copyright and patent. If Tivo has a patent on the process, then SageTV could be in trouble if it wer to use the SAME method.

As for the term "Season Pass"... well, I doubt Tivo has a right to that since I believe Charter Cable uses it also for there set top boxes.

On the other hand, SageTV uses the term "My Favorites" which could get them in trouble with Microsoft.

There's just waaaaaaaaaaay too many foolish law suites going on right now over such trivial things.

One of the more interesting things I had read about a while ago was how Microsoft had tried to put thru such a broad patent that they would own the rights to ANY method of transfering ANYTHING between ANY computer (or other electronic device). Now that was really stupid in my opinion.

Too many lawyers and not enough common sense these days.

[mbrown3]

Originally posted by mls
Too many lawyers and not enough common sense these days.

No argument there, but often times it's the laws themselves that are dumber than the lawyers...so it's the politicians and the judges making the decisions that there are more of than common sense...

[mightyt]

Originally posted by mbrown3
No argument there, but often times it's the laws themselves that are dumber than the lawyers...so it's the politicians and the judges making the decisions that there are more of than common sense...

Of course lawyers become judges and politicians, then make dumb laws that lawyers make lot's of money on ... Hmmm ... I call that feeding your young ...

So, I guess it's up to us to get what we want the good old American way ... build you own PVR and tell your friends how cool it is ... That's how I got hooked ...

You can't brand Season Pass any more than you can Fair and Balanced ... If you could than what would theme parks and sports centers sell you ...

[stanger89]

I don't think Tivo even has IR (in any form, or at least not the same form as Tivo), the closest thing is suggestions, and if I understand correctly Tivo's suggestions are based on a central database of what people like, and I'm not sure "Suggestions" are trainable. Where as Sage's IR analyzes what you've watched, Don't Like, and based on some super-secret algorithm scores everything in the guide and records whatever has a high enough score, plus it learns. I'd think the fact that Sage's IR is local would be enough to distinguish it.

[cmaffia]

Originally posted by stanger89
I don't think Tivo even has IR (in any form, or at least not the same form as Tivo), the closest thing is suggestions, and if I understand correctly Tivo's suggestions are based on a central database of what people like, and I'm not sure "Suggestions" are trainable. Where as Sage's IR analyzes what you've watched, Don't Like, and based on some super-secret algorithm scores everything in the guide and records whatever has a high enough score, plus it learns. I'd think the fact that Sage's IR is local would be enough to distinguish it.

Tivo does have IR and it is based on how you rate the programs on the remote (thumbs up/thumbs down) Sage is so close to Tivo as far as functionality. The author has many times stated that he wanted to make a Tivo without the monthly fees. It is these functions that the rep said "Tivo would be very interested in software that mimics these functions (legally speaking"

[stanger89]

Goes to show that two days with a Tivo isn't enough to really know it (but I knew I didn't like something about it).

[turak]

IR and Tivo suggestions amount to the same thing. IR is based on what you watch where as Tivo suggestions are based on thumbs up/thumbs down rating of shows. Either way, the DVR records a bunch of stuff that you may or may not want. I find that sagetv records more stuff that I watch then my tivo, but that could be because I don't bother giving many shows the thumbs up on tivo.

[sleight42]

Originally posted by mbrown3
No argument there, but often times it's the laws themselves that are dumber than the lawyers...so it's the politicians and the judges making the decisions that there are more of than common sense...

Sorry. I have to wax political now.

It's the damned corporations with their overblown notions of Intellectual Property control that are making the decisions. They buy the politicians, the politicians make the stupid laws, and it's the consumer that gets the shaft. This country sometimes feels more like an oligarchy than a republic; government by the rich, for the rich.

To get back on topic, yes, TiVo does have an IR-like feature. However, as TiVo's feature is driven by 0-3 thumbs up/down and SageTV's is driven by the shows marked watched and not "don't like", they are a bit different (fortunately).

Power to the people... er... SageTV.

[TerryMathews]

TiVo wouldn't be protected by copyright in this regard, it would be patent. TiVo does hold many patents over PVR functionality - I believe this is why SageTV only has a fixed-speed FF and REW.

[stanger89]

Lack of FF/RW is a technical issue:
http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...=1352#post1352

And I'd think it would be very difficult to Patent FF/RW, since it's a concept that pre-dates Tivo, and is available on DVD Players and other devices.

[zz5]

... and Snapstream has FF/RW, and ReplayTV has FF/RW.

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by stanger89
Lack of FF/RW is a technical issue:
http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showthr...=1352#post1352

And I'd think it would be very difficult to Patent FF/RW, since it's a concept that pre-dates Tivo, and is available on DVD Players and other devices.

When I said FF/REW, I was meaning the multi-speed with intelligent snapback fast-forward and rewind that TiVo uses. No one except TiVo has a system like that, and it is protected by patent.

If you're fast-forwarding at 8x (Max speed), and hit play, it snaps back about 30 seconds, to account for lag from both the system and the user. It's really very accurate. Same thing happens with rewind, except opposite. If you're rewinding at 8x, and hit play, the system will snap forward about 30 seconds to account for lag.

TiVo has a lot of patents on PVR functionality. Read up on it sometime.

[mlbdude]

BTV has the snapback as well and it is configurable.

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by mlbdude
BTV has the snapback as well and it is configurable.

Really, didn't know that. Of course, I haven't used BTV since it was SnapStream.

[SHS]

Hmm I wonter which patent Tivo is ref to out 21 and 5 of them to deal with Remote.