Sage on life support

[dstanley]

Originally Posted by stuckless

It would not take much to create a Trakt plugin for sagetv. I've thought about doing this myself, because I want to see how well something like Emby could be used a s front end, but manually tracking watched statuses between 2 systems is more than I can manage

I would LOVE to see a Trakt plugin for SageTV and would even contribute to it ($) - I use SageTV mostly but also an Odroid C2 running Plex Open PHT for UHD 4K and HVEC H.265 tv/movies on my Plex server.

However, NOTHING seems to beat SageTV (HD200/2300) for actually watching/pausing/skipping media

Plex has the Trakt plugin and for a while I used a plugin to sync SageTV watched status to Plex watched status so that Plex would report it to Trakt but ran into some syncing issues where Trakt was telling SageTV that movies were watched when they weren't ... eventually gave up on it within Sage but a Trakt plugin would be awesome.

Not sure if the 'watched' status could also be 'pulled' from the WIZ.BIN to recover years of episode watching or not - even a one time export to something Trakt could use would be so cool.

Dwight

[Flips]

Originally Posted by phelme

small rant, I don't know how people can stand what the Hulu and Netflix UX's have become. they're awful and just promote clicking on random shows, but it's apparently what someone wants.

LOL... that about sums it up. In Netflix I have to keep moving around the UI to prevent the trailer or sometimes the show to keep from playing. It works great for the kids, they never watch an entire series. Even when I am part way through a series I have trouble where to find the next episode.

The latest UI in android TV tries to help this by adding channels. the jury is still out for me. I like the concept, but i'm not sure I really like using it. I will see how it works when I get the kodi beta installed.

flips

[patja]

We use our SageTV clients less and less these days, but really it is because Netflix has so much content we want to watch, and they seem to have solved the problem of compression to deliver high quality video and 5.1 audio over the internet, something Amazon, HULU, Acorn, and other streaming services still fail at. This is even more true now that I've upgraded the display to faux-K, a resolution Netflix has no problem delivering at high quality.

Comcast and satellite compression remain crap, since most people don't watch on screens larger than 40 inches or simply don't care or can't even tell if they are watching SD or HD.

The killer feature that keeps us on SageTV is Comskip. And the lack of good (good compression, 5.1 audio) streaming options for some of the shows other family members enjoy.

I just hope Netflix doesn't ever have a change of management that results in their elves departing Middle Earth. Somebody (probably many somebodies) there really seem to care about quality, to a degree that probably exceeds the general market demand for high quality, but makes people like me happy.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by patja

I just hope Netflix doesn't ever have a change of management that results in their elves departing Middle Earth. Somebody (probably many somebodies) there really seem to care about quality, to a degree that probably exceeds the general market demand for high quality, but makes people like me happy.

I have been told that one reason Netflix is so good is that they pay ISPs extra to prioritize their packets and that if Net Neutrality is truly enforced Netflix performance will suffer. (Because under NN rules ISPs can't legally prioritize one packet over another.)

Is this true? And I'm not interested in any political debate about net neutrality I'm just looking for facts.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I have been told that one reason Netflix is so good is that they pay ISPs extra to prioritize their packets and that if Net Neutrality is truly enforced Netflix performance will suffer. (Because under NN rules ISPs can't legally prioritize one packet over another.)

Is this true? And I'm not interested in any political debate about net neutrality I'm just looking for facts.

I'm sure some of that is true but they also partner with ISP's to put server caches within their networks. That way when you're playing a movie you're likely hitting one of those caches rather than their central servers. I've not heard of other services doing that.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by patja

Comcast and satellite compression remain crap, since most people don't watch on screens larger than 40 inches or simply don't care or can't even tell if they are watching SD or HD.

OMG. some of the shows my wife likes on the Food Network are so compressed you can see it when someone bats an eyelash and their face turns into melty face Nazi guy out of "Raiders of the Lost Ark." I'll have to watch via their app and see if it's Comcast or it's what FN upstreams.

Originally Posted by patja

I just hope Netflix doesn't ever have a change of management that results in their elves departing Middle Earth. Somebody (probably many somebodies) there really seem to care about quality, to a degree that probably exceeds the general market demand for high quality, but makes people like me happy.

One of my good friends actually works on device "delivery" at Netflix. I'll thank him for you.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I'm sure some of that is true but they also partner with ISP's to put server caches within their networks. That way when you're playing a movie you're likely hitting one of those caches rather than their central servers. I've not heard of other services doing that.

yep, the magic of CDN's.

[mlcarson]

I think SageTV is still the best DVR with an AndroidTV client (miniclient) but the gap is closing. I've got a lifetime membership with Plex and Emby. I can see either of these services eclipsing SageTV in a year or two. Emby is getting close. If they would spend some more time on their clients (make the guide size customizable, add some more remote control options similar to SageTV), I think they would be there.


SageTV is Java based which is a negative to a lot of people. I think most users are running it on Linux or a Linux docker container which adds some complexity. There's a separate tuner module (OpenDCT) which has a lot of flexibility but this does add again to the complexity. The forums here are not easy to navigate for new users because of all the legacy stuff. Work here is all volunteer so there's not going to be a lot of development.

IPTV is not generally supported by SageTV. XMLTV guide source can be make to work via plugins but again adds complexity. Timeshifting of XMLTV guide data is not supported. Most IPTV streams don't work well with SageTV without reencoding via FFMPEG and stream glitches aren't handled well.

Pausing/ff/rewind of live tv can be problematic in SageTV. At least with the Android Miniclient, anything but a pause/continue can put you back at the live point of the stream and can also mess up pause/resume on previous recordings.

SageTV has been great but it's only a matter of time before Emby/Plex overshadow it.

[valnar]

I've never used Emby. What's the big deal vs Plex?

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by valnar

I've never used Emby. What's the big deal vs Plex?

I personally prefer Plex. It’s not as strict as Emby about how TV shows are organized. I can add my SageTV recording folder to Plex and it picks everything up as long as they are in the format “<Show Name> - SxxExx”. Emby requires a directory structure just to pick them up as TV shows.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by valnar

I've never used Emby. What's the big deal vs Plex?

Plex and Emby and are sorta like Mac and Windows. In the end, they basically do the same stuff, but, one of them (plex) is very opinionated on how it should be done (sort of like a Mac).

Emby server is open source, but, the clients (if I recall) are not fully activated unless you get the subscription. I have both Plex and Emby lifetime subscriptions, and, I've seen Emby come a long way in the last couple years. I still think Plex is a little more polished, but, Plex is a completely closed system, and, the owners have no interest in listening to their users. Emby, being open source, at least has some additional options if it doesn't quite do what you need.

If I were leaving SageTV for Plex or Emby... I'd probably look to Emby (for the same reason that I went to SageTV), because it's an open platform that I can extend. I've tried the Plex channel crap, and tried working with Plex to beg for simple features like give me some control over the video player... but again, they don't care.

[btrcp2000]

Sagetv because sports, cheap extenders, and wiz.bin

Only way to watch baseball locally is with a cable/sat subscription. Sagetv gives me the ability to flip back and forth between providers without losing DVR recordings, favorites, or history. If I were less lazy I could shut off premium between every year the world series and march madness, and the household wouldn't notice. Plus I could take advantage of whatever new subscriber promos are available

Sage allows me to stretch that one satellite box to 9 TVs in the house. Plus, I still find myself annoyed at maintaining all the streaming apps on different TVs (god forbid someone changes the password on one of them). Some have keyboard remotes or alow a code to be entered on a browser, some don;t, etc.

I'm toying with Mi Boxes to have the exact same interface everywhere for sage and all streaming, but I need time to figure out how to get the harmony remotes to control the Mi as well as the miniclient (.ie, does the Home button take you to Sage Home or Mi home?)

Haven't read much about emby/plex (although I am lifetime plex), but there just isn't anything yet that I want to do but can't with Sagetv. Will be a while before I care about 4k

[Flips]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

I'm toying with Mi Boxes to have the exact same interface everywhere for sage and all streaming, but I need time to figure out how to get the harmony remotes to control the Mi as well as the miniclient (.ie, does the Home button take you to Sage Home or Mi home?)

I just tried mine and the exit button on the harmony remote takes me to the sagetv home screen. no amount of hitting the back button or exit button exits the client. I have to long press select the exit command.

On my shield box, I have CEC over HDMI set up so I just use the shield remote. I press home to turn on the shield which turns on the TV. To turn off the TV I hold back which pops up the menu from the side and I select sleep. I have no other devices (other than a soundbar which is ARC or HDMI), so it works great. I haven't gotten the mii box to work the same way, but not sure if it is my TV or the mii box. Also, there are other devices on that TV, a HD300 and a Wii U, so it doesn't eliminate the harmony remote.

flips

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by btrcp2000

Sagetv because sports, cheap extenders, and wiz.bin

Only way to watch baseball locally is with a cable/sat subscription. Sagetv gives me the ability to flip back and forth between providers without losing DVR recordings, favorites, or history. If I were less lazy I could shut off premium between every year the world series and march madness, and the household wouldn't notice. Plus I could take advantage of whatever new subscriber promos are available

Sage allows me to stretch that one satellite box to 9 TVs in the house. Plus, I still find myself annoyed at maintaining all the streaming apps on different TVs (god forbid someone changes the password on one of them). Some have keyboard remotes or alow a code to be entered on a browser, some don;t, etc.

I'm toying with Mi Boxes to have the exact same interface everywhere for sage and all streaming, but I need time to figure out how to get the harmony remotes to control the Mi as well as the miniclient (.ie, does the Home button take you to Sage Home or Mi home?)

Haven't read much about emby/plex (although I am lifetime plex), but there just isn't anything yet that I want to do but can't with Sagetv. Will be a while before I care about 4k

Ditto on all accounts. Plex is up and down for me. Constantly changing the interface, adding stuff, etc. Plus, I’m not a fan of big, shiny picture gui’s, like Cox Contour, Rogers Ignite, or whatever it’s called, etc. I love a page full of words I can actually read. Fast, simple, direct. I just wish the founding fathers would keep the open-source product competitive with some new advancements, without making the extenders obsolete.

[will]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

I just wish the founding fathers would keep the open-source product competitive with some new advancements, without making the extenders obsolete.

What kind of new advancements do you have in mind?

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Ditto on all accounts. Plex is up and down for me. Constantly changing the interface, adding stuff, etc. Plus, I’m not a fan of big, shiny picture gui’s, like Cox Contour, Rogers Ignite, or whatever it’s called, etc. I love a page full of words I can actually read. Fast, simple, direct. I just wish the founding fathers would keep the open-source product competitive with some new advancements, without making the extenders obsolete.

The more I think about sagetv, the more I think the architecture should really be a recording server with a thin web front end to configure settings and tuners. And that front-ends like Kodi, Emby (or even Plex), could be leveraged for the client experience. The challenge that I have for these client front-ends is that they are limited in configurability of views, and their playbacks, don't appear to support commercial skipping (at least not in the same fluid way that sagetv allows). I guess I'd have learn to live with change

[samgreco]

Originally Posted by stuckless

The more I think about sagetv, the more I think the architecture should really be a recording server with a thin web front end to configure settings and tuners. And that front-ends like Kodi, Emby (or even Plex), could be leveraged for the client experience. The challenge that I have for these client front-ends is that they are limited in configurability of views, and their playbacks, don't appear to support commercial skipping (at least not in the same fluid way that sagetv allows). I guess I'd have learn to live with change

I couldn't agree more. And another plus would be the potential of pulling more people over if platforms like Kodi, Plex and Emby were supported. Might make for an injection of new blood. Which couldn't hurt.

[NetworkGuy]

Originally Posted by stuckless

The more I think about sagetv, the more I think the architecture should really be a recording server with a thin web front end to configure settings and tuners. And that front-ends like Kodi, Emby (or even Plex), could be leveraged for the client experience. The challenge that I have for these client front-ends is that they are limited in configurability of views, and their playbacks, don't appear to support commercial skipping (at least not in the same fluid way that sagetv allows). I guess I'd have learn to live with change

I like that idea. SageTV has always excelled at scheduling and recording. Why not strip the server component down to do just that? (With a Web UI). Removing everything else simplifies the maintenance.

PlaceShifter and the Client could be merged and be used solely for displaying the library and playback. Or other front ends could be used for this purpose.

I would be willing to contribute to a campaign to fund building this version 10.

As long as it would still live on Windows.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by will

What kind of new advancements do you have in mind?

well, for one, little things - like someone updating the 1394 channel change plugin. I know they didn't do it originally, but the fellow who did is long gone, and it would be great to have a 64bit version for Windows.
Also, updating things like the Online / More Online Services - lots of outdated dead stuff there.
as I said, little things

[nyplayer]

SageTV's advantage is that is has the best scheduling options of any DVR out there ... but you have to be very computer savvy to maintain it .. and recover in the event of a problem... I can see it dying a slow death if and when Silicondust releases recording of DRM channels... In my household there is still one lone user that uses SageTV. I have since moved on to the HDHR DVR with emby for remote viewing and scheduling away from home if I need to.

With the HDHRDVR if I am doing something with my NAS which it is running on ... all I have to do is switch my ShieldTV client to DVR mode and never miss a recording. The Shield will handle the recording and scheduling.

Another thing Closed Captions do not always work unless they are extracted.