ATI TV Wonder Elite - Page 2

Wheemer · #21 01-25-2005, 10:19 PM

Shouldn't we be compairing S-video to S-video... Why use the tuner of the 500??

SHS · #22 01-25-2005, 10:29 PM

500 it's sharper and the colors don't look so washed out but the 550 is brighter.
(Sapphire card right?) Yes that rigth and Yes it ATI branded TV Wonder Elite in fact the drivers are from ATI it VERY same software kit that ATI them self list on there own web site.

SHS · #23 01-25-2005, 10:40 PM

Wheemer I sure you were that some us have problem with LOUD Audio when using Line input and beside that I only have one Disknetwork recevier conn and hard pary two box from my sister law to both PVR on S/Video but take in to count that 500MCE Tuner works pettey dran good I try to plan for the other way around.
Take look at this screenshot with 250 vs 500 there both from S/Video
http://www.shspvr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6932

jptaz · #24 01-25-2005, 11:38 PM

Stanger,

Both the 2nd pictures are the 500MCE.

SHS,

Wasn't the big deal about the ATI TV Wonder Elite the Tuner? I would be interested in seeing the same test with both being fed the Coax out on the Dish network both via a splitter.

John

Quote:

Originally Posted by stanger89

Is it just me or do both second pictures look better, even though one is with the 550 and one with the 500MCE.

SHS, that's the Sapphire card right? Not the ATI branded TV Wonder Elite?

thatdude90210 · #25 01-26-2005, 01:25 AM

Mine came today too, the Sapphire theatrix 550 pro. I'm using the tuner, the picture looks pretty good to me, but it's difficult to compare with my Sage/pvr250 system because I have them installed in different systems. And I can't seem to set the bitrate close to each other with different software for a fair comparison.

One thing I will say is that Powercinema 3 is nowhere near the usablity of Sage. In fact, I'll take ATI's MMC over Powercinema any day. It's hard to navigate, changing channels takes 2 to 3 seconds, only 3 settings for recordings, and as far as I can tell, you can't just run it in a video window without a lot of menu stuff taking up most of the window. In short, Powercinema 3 is crap.

I can't wait to see Sage support it so I can add the Theatrix 550 pro to my Sage box.

Edit: strike that video window complaint, it's possible by pressing one of the buttons.

SHS · #26 01-26-2005, 10:57 AM

John I'am planing for that as well but I need get a splitter first

SHS · #27 01-26-2005, 11:11 AM

thatdude90210
Software has nothing to do with it your forget this is Hardware Encoder, When app only tells the encoder when start and stop or apply setting like bitrate, etc, etc. so it really make no diff what apps you use it still all going come out the same PQ we not dealing software encoder which can be diff across diff apps even with match the same setting across both apps.

I made my own custom bitrate profile like this below for both BeyondTV and SageTV
videobitrate = 4000000
width = 720
height = 480
(vbr) peakvideobitrate = 6000000

SHS · #28 01-26-2005, 01:28 PM

see my other post

AWS · #29 01-26-2005, 01:54 PM

Well I can see the color looks a little washed out on the 550Pro and it's also a little more blurred. It also appears that the 500MCE has a better blending of colors. If you look at the Doc's shirt in both pics, you'll see more blotchy pixels in the 550Pro.

I have the PVR-350 so do you have/know how the 500MCE compares to the 350? Or better yet, how the 350 fairs against the 550Pro?

One of my biggest problems seems to be heat buildup generated by the 2 X 350s. I ended up sticking northbridge heatsinks with 40mm fans on the cards but it's still not a perfect solution. I'd rather trade off some clarity and color for cooler running cards.

jptaz · #30 01-26-2005, 01:55 PM

Not seeing that big an improvement...I would still say the WINTV PVR 500MCE is sharper looking and I thought the big deal about this was it had ISF certification. So far that does not seem to mean much.

John

jptaz · #31 01-26-2005, 01:58 PM

AWS,

frankly I would get a PVR 500MCE or PVR 150MCE and replace one of the 350s or both if you are not using the video out. So far my PVR 500MCE looks very good and temperature is not a problem seeing as I have 4 PVR 250s and 1 PVR 500 MCE and the PVR 500MCE is sitting right next to my AIW 7500 which has a fan.

John

AWS · #32 01-26-2005, 02:48 PM

jptaz:
So, right now I have 2 X 350 and am NOT using any of the "outs" on either card. My video card is a 6800 (std) PCI-E - which I use for connecting to my TV. So if I go with a 500MCE and drop one of the 350s, will that effect my CPU usage any? I'm a bit confused as to where the 350 and others (150, 250, 500) are different (in terms of their encoding/decoding abilities). Are they all hardware based? I want as much hardware processing the video stream as possible so I have less CPU usage. It sounds like if I'm NOT using any video outs from the 350s then I might as well go with all 500MCEs in stead, right? Feel free to point me to a FAQ if you know of one. Thanks!

SHS · #33 01-26-2005, 03:53 PM

The one way I think we may see any real improvement is maybe with Faroudja DCDi and more commercial grade hardware like build in Time Base Corrector, 3R Picture (Digital or Analog), 3D Digital Y/C Separation, 3D YNR, 3D CNR, 3D S-Color and etc which I guest would be about 50% to 70% better then consumer grade stuff we see now.

So far I haven't been unable to do any thing with DirectShow filter other then change a few thing like audio/video biterate and other thing like video resolution which flat out will not stick to any other lower resolution it alway kick back to 720x480 soon I try to start recording and same with Comb filter alway the same way kick back to defaulte setting I can change the Noise Reduction filter but as far as I can tell I don't see any diff.
Bad news that card dosen't run as cool like Conexant CX23416 dose.
But take in to count that this ATI first Hardware Encoder I say they done good job but it dose lack some encoder features like recording MPEG1, VCD, SVCD.

SHS · #34 01-26-2005, 04:18 PM

AWS the 350 has CX23415 with a Hardware decoder which had a die size .25 just like some first PVR 250 but thoses run a bit cooler becuases Hardware decoder was disable unlike the newer PVR 150, 250, 500 and USB2 which come with CX23416 and has no Hardware decoder has a smaller die szie of .18 if Conexant had shrink the CX23415 die size to .18 it would have run a of lot cooler.
But due to new design change that Conexant come with where Hauppauge change out A/V Decoder over to CX25843 which cut down on some heat buildup generated by Philips SAA7115HL.

Wheemer · #35 01-26-2005, 04:38 PM

I thought the e-home was ATI's first hardware tuner...

As for the Elite, I don't see any reason to pick it over the 150... Even if the quality is different it's not something you'd notice.

Of course it would be nice if you had a dvd feeding into the s-video with an excellent quality scene that contained the full range of colour and contrast... Then we'd be seeing the best possible wuality from both tuners...

The choices you seem to make for screen captures are usually not very flattering to the cards!

SHS · #36 01-26-2005, 05:39 PM

e-Home base on Conexant CX23416 which not build by ATI them self so there diff there Wheemer.
I think the $150 you been see is MRP what I been seeing as low $82 with 2day free S/H but most them web store seem be avg $89 you paid S/H.
But as it stand rigth now I have say the 550 Pro need a bit more driver work.

stanger89 · #37 01-26-2005, 05:52 PM

I was about to say: "I'm still curious what the difference between the TV Wonder Elite and the "knockoffs" are"

But some investigation of board pix floating around at it appears that the difference is nil. Rather dissapointing given the hype. But, I'm not totally surprised, looks the Elite is only the only ISF certified board because it's the only one that tried.

thatdude90210 · #38 01-26-2005, 10:54 PM

I did a little test today, recorded part of a college basketball game on both my Sage system (p4 2.53, pvr 250, radeon 9600pro) and on my the system that I currently have the Sapphire 550pro installed (a64 3500, 550pro, x800xtpe).

My Sage system is connected via S video to a standard tv, and sports show have never been smooth. I've seen a few others complain about fast action sports before, but I didn't bother because I pretty much only record primetime shows, and didn't use my sage system for sports.

Anyway, I transferred the 550 pro basketball video to the imported folder and played it from there. And on the same system and the same tv, the video recorded by the 550 pro was much smoother, almost like live tv.

It's not a scientific test, but if and when Sage supports the 550pro, and the fast action sports difference that I saw is still the same, I'm getting another 550 pro and relegating my 2 250pvr's to 3rd and 4th on tuner merits.

SHS · #39 01-27-2005, 08:26 PM

Sapphire Theatrix Theater 550 Pro

Here my take on this card
Few small problem I run it to rigth way
1: CTHELPER.exe crash on boot up I have Creative Lab Audigy 2 ZS, if I disable the Theater 550 Pro then reboot and wait everthing to load then re-enable Theater 550 Pro then CTHELPER dosen't crash.
2: PowerCinema dose not install on Windows2000 Pro even Cyberlink own web site is saying only for XP why did thoses guys chosse this if it can't install on Win2000 so how are Win2000 user going to use this card if there an't anything for the card after the back & side of box list Win2000 as being compatible.
3: Where ATI Multimedia Center 9.04 they have list in the User Manual but so far I haven't find anything on 9.04 only 9.03 is out and from what I under stand that dosen't work with this card.
ATI MMC software can be download but they are upgrade only let hope there come out full 9.04 for this card soon other then it nice paper wight for Win2000 user unless you use BeyondTV or Lean how use GraphEdit or get WinXP and put Phone Home carp and not so good CyberLink PowerCinema and MakeDVD stuff.
They did add very a nice Remote to package which is a CyberLink Remote.

Here are some screenshot take from Stargate SG-1 from WinTV-PVR 500MCE (Tuner input) an Theatrix Theater 550 Pro (S/Video Input) using SageTV (500MCE) and BeyondTV (550pro) recording using Womble MPEG-VCR to extract the raw image screenshot.
I like to hear your commant on what do see wrong.
S/video vs Tuner
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 1

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 1

Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 2

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 2

Tuner vs Tuner
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 1

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 1

Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 2

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 2

Composite vs Tuner
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro 1

WinTV-PVR 500MCE 1

All screenshot are recording from Dishnetwork DP301 receiver
Fast Action show seem to pass as far I can tell.
SageTV dosen't work with the Theater 550 Pro so only BeyondTV work some what as far I can tell you but have put with 720x480 only and no odd ball bitrate like 3.5, 5.5 things like that, but it dose seem support a lot more diff resolution and host of other thing when I check out everthing under GraphEdit.
Comb filter
Noise Reduction filter
Odd thing was Video Proc Amp it lacks Sharpness control
Oh this card seem to do only MPEG2 there no listing for MPEG1, VCD, SVCD
It also showing audio format MPEG1 Layer 2 and LPCM audio
It seem that the can do AVI becuases it was listing an PIN as YUV2 720x480 output (Didn't test this).
Here a few screenshot from GraphEdit

The noise reduction, comb filter parameters applied in the graph don't seem be sticking nor dose it do any thing far I can and I can tell you the only things that dose seem be working is some of Audio and Video properties setting.

The bad news that MPEG files generated by the Theater 550 Pro are not very compatible with some tools like let say Ulead DVD MovieFactory when I try set up auto 1 min chapters point it carp out after 6 min's in to it and using Womble MPEG-VCR MPEG "GOP fixer" I find out it show lot's of error in GOP time code which not good at all, But writing out a new files with Womble MPEG-VCR fix the problem.

Wow this more like it what an improvement when I trying do a REQ for hrlslcbr on HTPC News forum I was playing a round with NeroVision Express 3 and it see ATI 550 Pro card so I fige what hack and try it and it can capture AVI to MPEG in real time but with 50% CPU usage.
My system is Intel 2.8GHz with 1GB memory which noumle use for gaming.
Now the questions that come to mind is why dose ATI 550 Pro hardware encoder look so bad.
Theatrix Theater 550 Pro capture AVI to SoftMPEG capture

WinTV-PVR 500MCE REALtime Hardware MPEG capture

thatdude90210 · #40 01-27-2005, 11:57 PM

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