How to tell Sage/IR to NEVER record a particular show.

[wvpolekat]

I am about at my wits end. I have IR setup (with agressive negative) and it's working pretty well, and has done a decent job of learning what we like and don't like. With a couple exceptions.

Sage apparently has quite a crush on Matlock. It wants to record it every single time it is on.

I have gone as far as telling it to record the series, first-runs only. Apparently, it took that and decided to record the reruns as well.

I mark them "Don't like" as often as possible, but it keeps on chasing after Matlock.

There are a couple of other shows that it likes a lot more than I do.

Is there a way to tell it to NEVER record something and it actually listen?

What would be super nice would be able to exclude certain search strings from IR. Perfect example is that I can't stand Rachel Ray, but it thinks because I watch Good Eats, I want to watch her too. Took marking her as don't like for about 3 weeks before it figured it out.

Any ideas on how to resolve this?

[bcjenkins]

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...=anti-favorite

[ke6guj]

yup, anti-favorites should take care of you.

It will go through your IR list and mark all your unwanted shows as either watched or don't like automatically. I've been using it for about a year, and love it.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

Sage apparently has quite a crush on Matlock. It wants to record it every single time it is on.

I have gone as far as telling it to record the series, first-runs only. Apparently, it took that and decided to record the reruns as well.

I mark them "Don't like" as often as possible, but it keeps on chasing after Matlock.

In addition to the customization mentioned above, you can get it to be more effective on its own too:

Telling it to record the first runs only via a Favorite doesn't tell it to _not_ record reruns; it just affects the first runs that it will record as favs. Remove the Fav, since that might still be affecting how it deals with any other episodes of that series. Check the list of past airings for that series to see if any are marked as watched; if so, remove the Watched status. Are any of them still outlined in white? If so, they are still affected by some Fav. Finally, mark all the current future episodes as Don't Like. (You can use the Options command on the search results screens to set some filters for the list you are viewing.) I had a few soaps that needed lots of Don't Likes, but they rarely, if ever, show up now.

- Andy

[wvpolekat]

Ok, I will try the anti-favorite plugin and see how it does.

But, I feel pretty strongly that Sage should have a built-in "Never record XYZ" function/list" or "Never IR from channel XYZ". This is pretty simple logic and would be wonderful.

Heck, I am not even sure how "I" IR is. I couldn't tell you the last time I watched the news, but at least once a week, it will record the news. It also seems to have a fixation on the end of the world and likes to throw in one or two shows about that. Oh well.

It's not so much that I mind deleting things that I don't like, it's more that I would rather free tuners up for things I may actually watch.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

It's not so much that I mind deleting things that I don't like, it's more that I would rather free tuners up for things I may actually watch.

IR doesn't replace any Manual Recordings or Favorites, so it isn't taking up a tuner that you might want to use to schedule some other recording. IR schedules extra recordings for times when your tuners aren't otherwise in use.

- Andy

[wvpolekat]

Yes, I understand that. But if it is taking 70% of the free tuner time to record stuff that is in no way related to anything I watch, it is possibly missing recording things I may actually watch. Besides, it just consumes drive space. Yes, they will get cleaned up first, but I still have to wade through them in my list of recordings.

BUT, I HAVE seen it push a scheduled recording back to a later showing in order to accomodate something it thinks I may like. That put a HUGE dent in the WAF when she wanted to watch Big Love at it's scheduled time but it was IR recording some other junk on both tuners we won't watch. So, I know for a fact that scheduled/manual recordings ABSOLUTELY DO NOT take priority over IR recordings. All it sees is that episode XYZ got recorded sometime, and there is no way to tell it ALWAYS record a show at it's first showing.

I love Sage, but it REALLY needs the ability for the user to give it more concrete statements about what to record. It's too dumbed down and assumes that as long as it records it, that's all that matters.

These are pretty simple things to include, even if done via a text file and not the GUI:
1) NEVER record show XYZ
2) ALWAYS record first runs of XYZ at the first showing.
3) ALWAYS record ONLY first runs of XYZ.
4) NEVER intelligent record from channel ####.
5) Ability to prioritize/weight series to allow it to do more intelligent conflict resolution. In my house, Big Love, Mythbusters and Dirty Jobs trump everything. But, if they conflict with other recordings, it's a crapshoot which will win. I am sure there is some logic to it, but in the end, there is no way to know.
6) NEVER record XYZ on channel ####
Just adding these few things would make IR soooooo much nicer.

After looking at it, I think that anti-favorites has too much potential to pollute the viewing and don't watch stats to install. So, I won't go that route. It's a good idea and an clever workaround to a pretty glaring shortcoming in Sage that the points above would remove most of the need for.

And, I know I have seen it before, but where can I see my viewing history?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

BUT, I HAVE seen it push a scheduled recording back to a later showing in order to accomodate something it thinks I may like. That put a HUGE dent in the WAF when she wanted to watch Big Love at it's scheduled time but it was IR recording some other junk on both tuners we won't watch. So, I know for a fact that scheduled/manual recordings ABSOLUTELY DO NOT take priority over IR recordings.

Actually, you don't know that for a fact. It is much more likely that there were other padding issues around that Fav that caused the show in question to be recorded at a different time -- IR is scheduled whether you have it enabled or not, but only gets added to the schedule to do the actual recording when the IR option is enabled. This is how the IR Suggestions plugin gets its list of suggested shows that you may want to record. There's another option for you to look at. Enabling or disabling the IR option shouldn't change the MR/Fav schedule at all because you haven't actually changed how the schedule gets created via that setting.

- Andy

[wvpolekat]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Actually, you don't know that for a fact.

I WATCHED IT HAPPEN. There were no "padding issues" or other excuses. There were no other scheduled recordings at that time. It chose 2 other (also one hour) shows to record INSTEAD of the favorite. There were no conflicts. Sage routinely decides to record Big Love at a later time on the same night as the premier. Every week we have to manually force it to record it at it's first showing. Did it last night for tonights showing as a matter of fact. But, I assume that didn't actually happen either.

Andy, while your knowledge is appreciated here on the forums, I seriously doubt I am the only one that wishes that your purpose here was to help and be somewhat of an outlet to Sage more than deflect Sage shortcomings as you did here. I understand that they write the checks and that's cool. But, like it or not, Sage is full of quirks and shortcomings. It has some serious quirks and feature shortcomings when it comes to scheduling in particular. When I bring this issue up, your choice is to tell me that I didn't see it do what it did. Sage also has some serious bloat issues that many seem to either be in denial about or willing to throw hardware at.

Fact is, IR is pretty seriously broken and lacking in features, Sage is understandably unable to share it's methodology to allow us as users to cope with it beyond "watched" and "don't like" and apparently unwilling to listen to users requests for more ability to gain some amount of control over the madness that is IR decision making. Instead, I get told that apparently I was delusional while the only show my wife cares about wasn't getting recorded so Sage could record 10 year old reruns of Threes Company and Good Times or some such crap it seems so in love with. Good job interfacing with the customer there!

[MeInMaui]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried disabling IR and then waited to see if your show is then recorded at the desired time slot? That might help sort things out a bit.

I don't think Andy was saying you are delusional. He was pointing out that the IR feature is not supposed to work the way you described and that there may be other explanations worth considering.

Personally, I prefer the IR suggestions plugin. I'd rather not have my hard drives churning away 24x7 if not necessary.

Aloha,
Mike

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

I WATCHED IT HAPPEN.

You THINK you watched it happen, but you don't know how SageTV does the scheduling, despite what I said above. I did not tell you that the rescheduling didn't occur; I told you that it probably has a different explanation.

There were no "padding issues" or other excuses. There were no other scheduled recordings at that time.

See this FAQ. A padding conflict could have been with a show before or after the Fav in question, but unless there is a bug that SageTV doesn't know about, it isn't possible for IR to bump a Fav to record another airing because IR isn't scheduled until AFTER MRs and Favs are scheduled. IR is used to 'fill in the blanks' in the schedule.

There were no conflicts. Sage routinely decides to record Big Love at a later time on the same night as the premier. Every week we have to manually force it to record it at it's first showing.

You wouldn't see a conflict notification because SageTV was able to schedule it at another time. When you manually set it to record the first airing, it probably rescheduled a Fav that would have been recorded that evening instead. If you have absolutly no other Favs before, during, or after that show's first airing, then create a log & send it to SageTV.

If the padding is on this Fav & that caused it to be rescheduled, then IR could fill the empty time because IR shows have no padding. You also mentioned that it recorded 1/2 hour shows, so those could have gotten completed either early in the hour, or later in the hour, potentially missing any padding conflicts with other Favs at the start or end of the hour.

Andy, while your knowledge is appreciated here on the forums, I seriously doubt I am the only one that wishes that your purpose here was to help and be somewhat of an outlet to Sage more than deflect Sage shortcomings as you did here. I understand that they write the checks and that's cool.

I'm getting really tired of your attitude and comments around here, so I suggest you think a lot more carefully about what you say to me in your next post. I don't believe I give out any lies or cover-ups and take that comment as an insult. I gave you what I thought were helpful comments on how SageTV operates:

I posted suggestions about how to deal with the IR shows you don't want recorded, suggested a customization that hadn't been mentioned yet for you to consider (the IR Suggestions plugin), and told you how scheduling priorities work since you were claiming that IR was responsible for a Fav being recorded at a later time.

Could there be a scheduling bug? Of course that is a possibility. No software is 100% perfect. When I state something doesn't or shouldn't work in a particular way, that indicates how the design says it is supposed to work. I take it as a given w/o me having to say it every time that if someone can show that it doesn't actually work that way, they should report it to SageTV. Since you don't seem to have understood that concept, I suggested in this post that you make sure there are no Favs before, during, or after the one in question. If that Fav still gets rescheduled to record at a later airing, then you can send the log of that to SageTV so they can see what is happening.

...your choice is to tell me that I didn't see it do what it did.

No, I told you that you probably didn't see what you THINK you saw & that there was probably a different explanation based on code knowledge that you don't have & discussions with the person who wrote the IR code, which you also haven't had.

I would normally put this in a PM, but I'll now tell you here to leave out any 'crap' comments, per forum rule number 1. And, that rule has nothing to do with calling something in SageTV crap; I tell people to leave out the rude comments no matter what software, company, person, etc., that they are referring to. If you can't handle that requirement, then stop posting.

- Andy

[rickgillyon]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

But if it is taking 70% of the free tuner time to record stuff that is in no way related to anything I watch, it is possibly missing recording things I may actually watch. Besides, it just consumes drive space. Yes, they will get cleaned up first, but I still have to wade through them in my list of recordings.

So why on earth do you have IR enabled?

[nielm]

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

if it is taking 70% of the free tuner time to record stuff that is in no way related to anything I watch...Besides, it just consumes drive space.

Originally Posted by rickgillyon

So why on earth do you have IR enabled?

Seconded.
You do know that you can browse the IR suggested recordings within Sage using one of my plugins, and in my webserver, even if IR is disabled?
This also allows you to easily 'dont like' a whole group of suggested recordings...

Originally Posted by wvpolekat

And, I know I have seen it before, but where can I see my viewing history?

Enable Hidden extras and you get a Custom EPG views menu in the Schedule menu.
Or in my webserver, the search function.

[wvpolekat]

I have IR recording because the idea is good. The implementation/logic is flawed along with it missing a couple of features that would be very nice. Particularly the ability to tell it to never record a particular show. That would be a very nice work around to the difficulties in applying viewing history to future showings. I will give Sage that doing this is VERY difficult, and of course there will be things recorded that don't really fit what you like. I am ok with that.

As for the thoughts on padding/scheduling issues. Perhaps I am missing something, but if it can change to channel XYZ to record a suggestion, why could it not change to channel PDQ for a favorite? Given that both of them start at say 9 PM? Would they not both have the same padding?

I have a couple of theories, which I can only base on casual observations.

Sage seems to choose tuners at random. Meaning that if it is going to record 4 half hour shows in a one hour period and 2 of them are on one channel, it will use different tuners for the two on the same channel instead of just leaving the one tuner on one channel for a more "seamless" transition. I think this could cause it some confusion when scheduling a recording. I can see this when 2 shows are recorded back to back on the same channel with different tuners because the OSD on each of my STBs is a different color. Could this play in because it doesn't see one tuner as being available for a full hour when recording an hour show? Where if it left one on the same channel for both half hour recordings it would free the other up for a full hour? I may not be articulating this well. Hard to put into words.