I'm having some time issues....not DST related

[setherd]

I've noticed the past couple weeks my shows didn't have as much time before the show start time saved

I usually start my recordings 2-3minutes early to make sure they don't miss anything. I notice today my system time is 2+ minutes SLOW
So I did the update time thing in windows and it's back on time.
I checked with time.gov and one of my watches that sysncs to the time signal from bolder CO.

I had sage updating the system clock with the EPG server. I turned that off for now.

The only thing I can think of is the sage server was off a couple minutes but I found another thread Where Andy said those servers were OK.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...06&postcount=8

Anyone know how this could have happened?

[Conejo]

Microsoft's "Automatic Synchronization with Time Servers" is unreliable, the software doesn't consistently connect and doesn't retry until the next scheduled event. You can check your M$ 'Event Viewer' System Logs for W32Time.

Since PC Clocks drift and Microsoft's OS fails, SageTV gives you the option to Sync System Clock with SageTV Server. If enabled this will update your PC system clock approximately every 18 hours.

This doesn't explain why your time was off if this was enabled.

I understand the need to pad START and STOP times. The networks don't operate on the same clock. I have one local that jumps the clock by 58 seconds. Having your PC Clock out of whack doesn't help.

[Opus4]

I think a lot of people run an atomic clock utility to update the PC's time every hour or so because some PCs can get off by minutes even over the course of a single day.

I think SageTV updates once a day during the EPG update. Windows is configured to update much less frequently, though there is a way to change how often it updates the time.

- Andy

[setherd]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I think a lot of people run an atomic clock utility to update the PC's time every hour or so because some PCs can get off by minutes even over the course of a single day.

I think SageTV updates once a day during the EPG update. Windows is configured to update much less frequently, though there is a way to change how often it updates the time.

- Andy

I changed the registry to update the update daily. I did this several year ago.

If I'm the only one it's not a major concern. I was wondering if anyone else had similar issues.

[stevech]

I found these servers to be very reliable whereas Microsoft and NIST were not

us.pool.ntp.org

put this into the time server choice that is a tab on the set date/time popup from the windows toolbar clock.

I changed my registry settings to do an ntp time synch every 4 hours. The item you want is "SpecialPollInterval", DWORD, seconds.

My PCs and my "atomic" clock (WWV based) are always within 2 seconds.

I suspect one should un-check the Sage option to synch PC time to EPG time

[setherd]

well I just checked.
my clock was updated via windows 22hours ago and it's 90sec slow.
I'm pissed.

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by setherd

well I just checked.
my clock was updated via windows 22hours ago and it's 90sec slow.
I'm pissed.

I did a google search and found some half-way believable scribbles here:

Re: PC clock wrong after a few minutes- always on
MotherBoardPoint.com&post=12
MotherBoardPoint.com&Post=15

The basic sequence is that the RTC, keeps time all the time, and is_not_ changed to match the 'Wndows' value, unless you use something (like the 'time' setting program), which does this.
While Windows is running, the RTC value is ignored. On_server_systems, the main PC time, is updated to match the RTC time at intervals (usually about 1 hour). A number of things can interfere with the system time. As outlined above, some things can cause a tick to be missed. However much worse, some applications, reprogram the chipset, and change the tick frequency. Things that particularly affect the time system are:

XP multi-media timers. If enabled, and especially if set towards their highest rate, will cause timing errors.
Some old 'DOS' applications, if run in the command window.
Some games.
Dell have a timekeeping utility, that rn on a desktop machine, performs a resync to the RTC at intervals.
Asimilar general purpose utility, is 'clockmon', which is free.
Better though if a network connection is available, is to sync to a network time server.

The XP clock becomes soft-based once booted and relies on code-timers and oscillation counters to keep accurate time. If the oscillators are off-spec then the clock will be also.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by setherd

my clock was updated via windows 22hours ago and it's 90sec slow.

This is why a lot of us have the clock updated hourly or so -- it is easy for Windows' time to go wrong pretty quickly.

Configure it to sync more often & your clock should be OK... or at least it won't be able to get as far out of sync.

- Andy

[stevech]

Well, my Sage Server (XP Pro) was *gaining* about 10 seconds an hour. For weeks. Starting to cause recordings to get truncated. I googled a while but found no credible reason that Windows' timekeeping would be fast. Slow, yes, if it loses interrupts. But fast? Some people were speculating, but their suppositiona seemed illogical.

So, I changed the registry to do NTP updates very 2 hours and rebooted XP. So far, the 10 second gain problem is gone. We'll see.

I also disabled the Sage option "synch clock to Sage EPG". Not sure what EPG updates (once per day) would do to synch the PC clock to a time standard.

Face Redmond and say 5 hail Bill's.

[stevech]

I spoke too soon. Both PCs here using ASUS M2N-MX with XP Pro, AMD X2 CPUs. One is an AMD 4200, the other is a 3800.

Both gain about 10 seconds per 1 or 2 hours running Windows. The BIOS clock chip seems to be much more accurate, but it's read only upon reboot.

I did find this (though it speaks to Intel, not AMD CPUs)

http://techrepublic.com.com/5208-623...sageID=2278004

[pseudonym]

I use a 3rd party utility to sync up the windows clock frequently. Like Conejo mentioned, I'm not sure some of the networks are always dead on, or maybe they don't feed the start/stop times to tv listing service accurately? Often I'm missing the first or last 10-30 seconds on specific channels while others are fine.

Is there a sage.properties or other hack to ask Sage to automatically pad a user-specified amount of time to front, back, or both? I found a reference to padding in the Tables tutorial in the Sage User Manual (6.1) and UseAiringSchedule variable, but nothing further. What pad value does the UseAiringSchedule take on?

Thanks and regards,
--pseudonym

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

I use a 3rd party utility to sync up the windows clock frequently. Like Conejo mentioned, I'm not sure some of the networks are always dead on, or maybe they don't feed the start/stop times to tv listing service accurately? Often I'm missing the first or last 10-30 seconds on specific channels while others are fine.

Stations aren't always on time and they don't all match in terms of how far off time they are. The best bet is to pad recordings and use multiple tuners to reduce conflicts.

Is there a sage.properties or other hack to ask Sage to automatically pad a user-specified amount of time to front, back, or both?

Manual Recordings and Favorites can have start & stop padding applied to them, but there is no default padding setting that applies to all recordings.

But, check the List of available customizations for a default padding customization that can help automatically apply padding to new MR and new Favs.

- Andy

[pseudonym]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Stations aren't always on time and they don't all match in terms of how far off time they are. The best bet is to pad recordings and use multiple tuners to reduce conflicts.

I saw the pad on Favorites -- 15 minute increments only? I am looking for a minute or two...
[EDIT: I was misunderstanding the arrow controls, I see now I can do minutes there as well]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Manual Recordings and Favorites can have start & stop padding applied to them, but there is no default padding setting that applies to all recordings.

But, check the List of available customizations for a default padding customization that can help automatically apply padding to new MR and new Favs.

- Andy

Thanks Andy I will look at the customizations. Best regards,
--pseudonym

[setherd]

I just thought I'd say that I changed my registry to update every 12 hours.
it's been better.

I think I'll look for a time utility to sync up the RTC.
preferably a small, free program that will update and sync on a schedule I set.
anybody have a suggestion? I'm off to the google....

[setherd]

tried a few, so far I like this one.
it's free
you can add/edit your own time servers
runs in system tray

EDIT.....this one has a pop up every 10 minutes or so....still looking

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by setherd

EDIT.....this one has a pop up every 10 minutes or so....still looking

EvilPenguin mentioned a suggestion in this thread you might want to try: Emsa_Time_Synchronizer

[stevech]

I changed Windows' registry settings to synch clock once an hour instead of once a day or more (the default).

And I use us.pool.ntp.org (choice in Windows clock synch setup) which is very reliable; not so Microsoft or NIST servers.

Two PCs on my LAN seem to match my WWV "atomic" clock to 2 seconds or so whenever I check. And that agrees with the web page display produced by NIST's java applet.