Capturing better SD?

[mrwolf]

I've been reading tons of threads about recording non-OTA HD content. It seems while we might be close, the real solution is still a year or so off for those of us using a server with multiple tuner setups. I just don't see the machines being able to handle it in its current form--please correct me if I'm wrong. I know there are some people out there with some complicated setups that might be doing some things, but I want to be able to connect 3-4 HD DirecTV STBs to my server just like my SD STBs are now and roll with it.

I'm struggling because I just want better picture quality than I have now. Using composite or S-video is not good enough. I live on the fringe for OTA HD and when I can pick them up, they are sometimes choppy (I have a 91xg antenna with pre-amp and amp).

That said, is there any way to simply get better SD format? Such as using DirecTV HD receivers and using some type of capture card to downcode it to SD? I mean, SD can look pretty decent if done right. I've been told that SD on FIOS is pretty good. I think the problem is with most cable and dish signals, they do well to get it to you and don't really care. If the signal was *right there* then downcoded or something it would be better than what I have now.

Please tell me if it's possible or just tell me to STFU.

[jcwtheu]

I'm relatively new to Sage but here are a couple of suggestions:

Instead of S-Video, if you have an extra tuner you can use the RF-out from the STB instead. I'm not familiar with what DirecTV boxes include but that might be a slightly better signal.

Also I strongly recommend picking up the nvidia PureVideo MPEG2 decoder. It made a world of difference in the quality of SD from my cable box.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder.html

It's got a trial and you can easily switch between decoders in sage so if it helps you can decide whether it's worth it to buy.

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by jcwtheu

I'm relatively new to Sage but here are a couple of suggestions:

Instead of S-Video, if you have an extra tuner you can use the RF-out from the STB instead. I'm not familiar with what DirecTV boxes include but that might be a slightly better signal.

Also I strongly recommend picking up the nvidia PureVideo MPEG2 decoder. It made a world of difference in the quality of SD from my cable box.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/dvd_decoder.html

It's got a trial and you can easily switch between decoders in sage so if it helps you can decide whether it's worth it to buy.

I've been reading a little about PureVideo. I'll try that out and thanks for the suggestion. However, using the RF signal shouldn't give a better signal unless it just dithers better or something, which I've seen with analog cable. composite and s-video are better quality. Composite speparates the video and audio while s-video takes it a step farther and on the video side separates chrominance and luminance signals.

I'm in one of those places where if I could get a good 480i and have the conveniences of what I have now with my setup (all centralized with PC clients), I would be happier than I am now. If I could get 720i, I'd be one happy guy. I'm not concerned about disk space. I have about 2TB now and I could add a Dell NAS with about 6TB if I had to. It's making it all work and getting the quality that I'm trying to balance.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

That said, is there any way to simply get better SD format? Such as using DirecTV HD receivers and using some type of capture card to downcode it to SD?

DirecTV HD STBs appear to have S-Video output already, so you wouldn't need a separate device to downconvert to SD. That might be worth an experiment if you plan to upgrade to HD eventually anyway. (Note that you might have to upgrade your dish as well to receive the HD signals from the satellite.)

That said, though, I'm not sure that the result would necessarily be better than what you have now, unless they're just doing a sloppy job of encoding the SD signal. Either way it's still an all-digital transmission path from the content provider to you, so noise shouldn't be a factor.

I guess I'll echo the suggestion that before you start swapping out hardware, you might want to experiment with different decoder software to see if you can get a better result that way.

[mrwolf]

There are times where I think it looks pretty incredible for SD and other times I just can't believe I'm watching the same thing. Different channels and shows are different which produces the different qualities, I guess. Right now I'm watching "True Lies" on A&E and it looks great. Other things just look nasty. Most of the time it's the shading you see on dark scenes as a result of the compression DirecTV does. "24" is just plain difficult to watch sometimes (probably because I watched the first 3 seasons on DVD).

Our local stations implementation of DT sucks too and DTV doesn't have them in HD yet, which is what I'm really waiting on. Maybe I'll just take a Xanax and STFU.

[mrwolf]

I'm upgrading to HD with DirecTV on Monday, so I'll know if my theory proves correct or not. I am pretty sure that if I use s-video or even composite out on an HD channel, it will be significantly better than the same from an SD channel. Having the content downcoded at the set should be much better than the crappy compressed signal sent down by the sats.

I'll post my results. Either way, I will be ready for the HD-PVR if/when it makes it on the scene.

[mike1961]

Also a good idea to check your resources on your server or where the file is being recorded. It could also be the type of mpeg encoder card you are using. I never cared for the Hauppauge PVR-500 but when I went to the NVidia dual tv tuner I was quite impressed. Avermedia (single tuner) does okay also.

Mike

[mrwolf]

Originally Posted by mike1961

Also a good idea to check your resources on your server or where the file is being recorded. It could also be the type of mpeg encoder card you are using. I never cared for the Hauppauge PVR-500 but when I went to the NVidia dual tv tuner I was quite impressed. Avermedia (single tuner) does okay also.

Mike

I'm using STB's with DirecTV so the tuner wouldn't have anything to do with what I'm trying to do. I bought a PVR-500 off of ebay before I knew about the tuner issues, so after that I switched to DirecTV to make use of the A/V inputs, instead. I'm also good on resources. My picture quality now is actually pretty freakin good for SD after I put some time into tweaking all the settings. I'm just trying to make it even better--like BASF

[IVB]

For me personally, I had an issue with the output. Once I stared experimenting with different mpeg processors, I noticed an immediate improvement.

I'm not saying this is your issue, just that you may not want to focus solely on the capture side.

[hemicuda]

maybe dumb Q, but does the codec in the detailed settings have any affect on the extenders? if not then in my case I need to be tweaking the sliders for the card itself.

[camus]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

I'm upgrading to HD with DirecTV on Monday, so I'll know if my theory proves correct or not. I am pretty sure that if I use s-video or even composite out on an HD channel, it will be significantly better than the same from an SD channel. Having the content downcoded at the set should be much better than the crappy compressed signal sent down by the sats.

I'll post my results. Either way, I will be ready for the HD-PVR if/when it makes it on the scene.

I feel your pain as far as satellite goes, the signal varies considerably from channel to channel.

I would look forward to hearing your results, I was thinking of doing the same until the HD-PVR becomes a reality or an R5000 mod may be in my future, even if I do either I will probably only do one and use a second box as you plan.

What I am really interested in is how the s-video handles the 16:9 content, if you will get a 4:3 squeeze (basically anamorphic 16:6) or if it letterboxes it.

I have taken plenty of HD content and made SD 16:9 DVD's that look great, much better than the SD recording and that was squishing a 3 1/2 hour football game onto a DL disc, so I imagine a pvr card could do a great job at a higher bitrate.

[fyodor]

There is a hauppauge HD capture card coming out in a month that will capture from the component outputs on your direct tv receiver. It should operate the same way as your SD capture cards.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-02/...ncoder-update/

[mrwolf]

Nice...first time I've seen a release date other than "sometime this year". This even more solidifies my move to HD with DirecTV tomorrow. I'll have to start figure out where I can get $1000 to pay for four of these guys now.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by fyodor

There is a hauppauge HD capture card coming out in a month that will capture from the component outputs on your direct tv receiver. It should operate the same way as your SD capture cards.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-02/...ncoder-update/

Hmmm. I noticed this comment:

It will require a “relatively powerful PC to playback the recordings from this device

I wonder what that means about the HDExtender's ability to render it.

[mrwolf]

My theory was correct. If I'm watching an HD channel but using the s-video or composite output, the downcoded video looks quite a bit better than the standard SD quality of the same channel. This allowed me to upgrade to HD in preparation for the HD-PVR and get better SD on some channels in the meantime.

As a bonus, the H21 receivers work fine with serial control via the Patterson cables. I had some problems initially for some reason, not sure why. I shut everything down and plugged the USB adapter into the back of the H21 receivers hot and its been working fine since. Not sure what caused the problems and not sure I care.

[mrwolf]

I just wanted to post a quick update on my testing. I've been using the H21 STBs for four days now and have not had any problems at all. I am extremely pleased with the PQ, as well. The one small mystery I have is that one of the three shows the bars on the sides on 4:3 shows while the other two seem to stretch 4:3 shows. I tried adjusting these when I first set it up and it seemed to screw with the full 16:9 channels, so I left them alone. Now I'm starting to think it might be the difference between the one STB on PVR-150 and the other two on the PVR-500. I haven't had time to trace it down, yet.

Otherwise, everything is peachy.

[judy2304]

Originally Posted by mrwolf

As a bonus, the H21 receivers work fine with serial control via the Patterson cables. I had some problems initially for some reason, not sure why. I shut everything down and plugged the USB adapter into the back of the H21 receivers hot and its been working fine since. Not sure what caused the problems and not sure I care.

I recently got the H21, and haven't been able to program the ir codes in Hip to use the MCE blaster. Are you saying you have serial channel control with the H21? Do the Patterson cables you mentioned use a serial connection? Where did you connect the cables to the H21? I don't think it has a serial connector.

[BFisher]

I have 2 H21s I'm controlling via Patterson serial cable. Works great. Did require me to make a registry edit before it started working, but now its fast and reliable.

The serial end goes into your PC, the USB end goes into the H21. If you don't have available serial ports on your PC, USB to Serial adapters work fine (I'm using 1 with an adapter, and one directly into serial port).

[judy2304]

What kind of registry entry did you have to make? I have a serial port available on my computer. Did you choose serial input in Sage to be able to change channels in Sage? Judy

[BFisher]

Originally Posted by judy2304

What kind of registry entry did you have to make? I have a serial port available on my computer. Did you choose serial input in Sage to be able to change channels in Sage? Judy

Here, it's in this thread. good luck