Many Problems

[pvr599]

Hey guys,
Well I have posted before with some of these problems and have gotten some help, but never really fix the problems I have. I just eventually give up. Then I get so frustrated I try to get help again. Let me start by saying I LOVE Sage, but I can never seem to get it running completely. There is ALWAYS some issue going on. I keep thinking it's my system, but looking at others, I'm not completely weak. I would upgrade anything if I knew it would help. On to the problems.

First and the most frustrating, I like watching hockey, but I can't watch it though Sage. It just seems that the fast moving action is a problem with Sage. It just studders so bad I eventually change the channel. I've missed alot of games this year. The funny thing about this is nothing else does this. Not movies on cable, not played back movies, not even downloaded HD movies. I could never seem to figure out why this is.

Second, I could never get my HDHR working. I tried recently again to set it up and when I try to tune to channels in VLC, all I get is a big blocky picture. Pretty much no picture. I thought it was the signal from the cable company, but my HD STB works fine. I don't know where the problem is there.

Third and most recent. I decided to get commercial skipping setup again. I use Dirmon2 and Showanalyzer. It is skipping commercials, but about every other skip, when the show starts to play again, Sage goes into like a FF mode. I don't know how else to explain it. It's like a smooth FF or it locks up completely and I have to shut down and restart which usually takes about 5 min to get it to unfreeze. This was so embarrassing the other night when I had friends over to watch Idol and I said "watch this, you're gonna love it" and boooop, Sage froze fright after the skip. GRRRRRR

Again, I never had these problems when I had a SD TV. Everything started when I upgraded to a big bad plasma. Like I said, I live with the glitches and freezes until I can't take it anymore, then I post. In the meantime, I look through all the threads for my situation and I can never seem to get an answer or the posts I've found don't work for me.

If anyone could help me with any of these problems, I would greatly appreciate it. Glitch free one day would be great.
Thanks,
Dana

[mickp]

Does playback get any better if you use the sage mpeg codec for playback? I found that some versions of the nvidia codec didn't work so well with some recend versions of sage. I've upgraded to a more recent version of purevideo (upgrades appear to be free) and it seems better though I don't see the a advantage in performance over other codecs these days.

Do your hockey games play back well on a pc via windows media player or other? What recording settings do you have? Maybe more video bandwidth is required for the fast motion (i take it you're recording analog via the haupauge cards in your sig).

Mick.

[kevine]

The first thing I would try to do as mickp hinted to is to record some HD content and play it back in sage. If it has problems open it up on VLC or WMP to see if it has problems there too. If it does, then it is a recording problem and not playback. Codecs in that case would not help any. Other things to answer:

Are the recording drives formated with 64k clusters? They need to be.

Are there any other programs which be reading/writing to the drives at the same time? (Antivirus, etc.)

Lastly, watch a hockey game with the cable directly connected to the plasma. Does it have problems there? I am hinting that you may have signal problems. Then maybe watch it live from the HDHR via VLC.

Let us know what these questions reveal.

[carlgar]

I would focus on the network for the HDHR problems. It sounds like it could be losing packets on the network. What speed is your network? are you recording OTA or clear QAM? If OTA, then it could be poor signal quality. Have you used the HDHomeRun Manager to look at the Signal Strength and Signal Quality when recording?
What recording rates are you using for the PVR 150 and PVR 500 cards?

Are you trying to watch hockey live and watching the other shows after they are recorded? Watching live causes more I/O to the same disk.

[pvr599]

Thank all of you for your responses.

Mickp - I'll try the Sage Default to see if that works better and as soon as I record a hockey game again, I'll try it in another program.

Kevine - yes, my recording drives are 64k. I think the drives are being used all the time. I don't have a dedicated server at this time. The HTPC is right next to my Plasma TV and I use it for everything. I have the Baracude partitioned into 3, OS, Programs (including Sage) and a Swap I have 2 160GB SATA drives that I setup in Sage to alternate recordings on. I have 2 MVP's both connected to SDTV's and everything plays fine on those, even hockey games. The last question is no, I don't have any problems with a direct line. I have my HD STB connected right to the TV since I can't record HD shows anyways. I just switch sources on the TV when I want to watch a HD show.

CarlGar - I used DSLreports and it says my download in 2101kb and upload is 368kb. That is one thing I've always been confused on, the difference between OTA and QAM. What I can tell you is I have the HDHR setup the way it should be and I was just trying to watch the channels the manager would pickup ABC, NBC, FOX....etc. I never tried to record anyhing, I just tried to playback using VLC. Opening from HDHR manager.

Here are my results watch through VLC:

ABC - SS 80%, SQ 50% and the picture is there and not blocky just jerky playback.
CBS - SS 80%, SQ 50%, the picture again is there and not blocky. Every time there is any camera movement the picture looks wavey, stretched like.
NBC - SS 77%, SQ 50%, same picture as CBS
WKBD - SS 77%, SQ 50%, same as CBS and NBC
I get a PPV Preview channel - SS 77%, SQ 75% and this picture is the best yet. No troubles at all.
PBS - SS 74%, SQ 70%, Picture same as CBS, NBC & WKBD
FOX - SS 73%, SQ 71%, Picture same as ABC

Funny, this is the best picture I've had ever through the HDHR. It's not watchable, but it's not just big blocks. I have an interesting question and maybe something I'll try later on. Could it be possible that different times of the day would yield different SS or SQ?

How do I find out what recording rates I'm using for my capture cards?
Hockey games, I usually wait until about 30 min into it so I can skip through commercials. Sometimes I have other things recording, sometimes not. It seems whatever channels the tuners are on, Sage records them anyways.

Hopefully that all makes sense to all and please all your comments are greatly appreciated!!!
Dana

[kevine]

OTA=Over the Air
QAM=Unencrypted digital cable

I think you have a signal problem and I believe you are using QAM since you said you get a PPV channel. I know 70% sounds like a lot but it is not compared to mine and I still have signal problems occasionally with 85%+.

I am not sure why you do not have problems on MVPs except that you are watching SD. Have you tried to watch HD on an MVP? You should have the same problems.

Also, I do not know if there is anyone that has gotten HD recording to work correctly on an machine that is used for everything. There are just so many things that could be interferring with the recording/playing. There are people on this forum that have dedicated machines with problems as well.

Do you have hardware accelleration on? What is the CPU usage when watching hockey live? (Taskmanager)

[carlgar]

By network speed, I was referring to your local network. It should be either 100 Mpbs or 1Gpbs.
I agree that it looks like your signal strength is an issue. I think you are seeing them in the color yellow or red, which is a warning. They should be all green. How many splitters do you have before the signal gets to the HDHR? Every splitter reduces the signal strength. You may need to get an amplifier. I had low numbers like you when I had a 4 way (about 80% drop in SS) splitter. I saw various minor issues like you describe. I replaced the 4 way splitter with an 8 way amplifier. This corrected the minor issues I saw, even my analog recordings looked better.

[DFranch]

Originally Posted by pvr599

Here are my results watch through VLC:

ABC - SS 80%, SQ 50% and the picture is there and not blocky just jerky playback.
CBS - SS 80%, SQ 50%, the picture again is there and not blocky. Every time there is any camera movement the picture looks wavey, stretched like.
NBC - SS 77%, SQ 50%, same picture as CBS
WKBD - SS 77%, SQ 50%, same as CBS and NBC
I get a PPV Preview channel - SS 77%, SQ 75% and this picture is the best yet. No troubles at all.
PBS - SS 74%, SQ 70%, Picture same as CBS, NBC & WKBD
FOX - SS 73%, SQ 71%, Picture same as ABC
Dana

Those signal strengths are really pretty bad. I would suggest a signal amplifier of some sort. My HDHR gets 90+ and I only get an occasional split second drop out. If you have an 8600GT you should be able to use VMR9 instead of overlay. The picture is nicer in my opinion. I have an 8500GT with the purevideo codec and HD works just fine on VMR9 mode.

[pvr599]

To all, well, the signal could explain alot. I have several splits before the HDHR. I do plan on moving the whole system and make it dedicated as soon as I can.


Kevine - Is OTA just an external antenna? QAM is through the cable line? Just to be clean one thing. I'm not watch HD anywhere. I cold never get it to work. All my recording are SD. I just tried to get the HDHR to have a clear picture in VLC. The point of hockey was that on my Sage server near the main TV is the one that studders, but the MVP's playback the games perfect. I'm sure now it has to do with possibly 2 things. The non-dedicated box I have and maybe that I "stretch" the games to fit the plasma. Could these both be possibilities?
Where would I turn hardware accerleration on? The video card or through Sage? I think I read somewhere that the 8600GT doesn't have hardware acceleration. Again, I'm still trying to learn about this setting too so sorry for looking so dumb. As far as CPU usage, I'll have to wait for another game to record.

Carlgar - Duhh, sorry. 10/100 Mbps is my speed. What would be your suggestion on an 8 way amplifier?

DFrench - thank you for your input. I think I've narrowed down one problem.

I do have an interesting thing to add and you're going to think I'm crazy, but before this input this is the way I've been doing things.

I have an HD STB. I use the S-video connection to the Sage box and the HDMI straight to the TV. I have this box setup as a tuner in Sage. When I want to watch something in HD, I shut down the main interface of Sage and leave the Service running. I change the source on the TV to the HDMI input and watch through the HDSTB box alone. That way I still record things through SAGE, but can watch HD shows too.

Here comes the funny part. Of course you can assume that if I change channels through the HDSTB it changes the channel in SAGE too, so anything I was recording wouldn't record, the channel would be different, right? Well a couple of nights ago, I had 3 shows setup to record using up all my tuners, I switched to the HDSTB box and tuned to American Idol on FOXHD. That same tuner in SAGE was setup to record First 48 on A&E. After American Idol, I went back to the SAGE input and went to watch First 48. I recorded American Idol perfectly from FOX HD. Not a big deal for recording the wrong show, I expected that to happen. It's the fact that it recorded FOXHD. I don't get it, it's just an interesting story.

One last question, does everyone think my system is powerful enough to do these things I want it to do and do any of you have an HD Extender yet, if so is it working out good? That is in the cards for me as soon as I set this up as a dedicated server.

Thanks again,
Dana

[carlgar]

This is the model I got on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Electroline-Cabl...QQcmdZViewItem

[RobJ]

Originally Posted by pvr599

I have the Baracude partitioned into 3, OS, Programs (including Sage) and a Swap

If I understand you correctly, it appears you have a separate partition for the swap file. From the programs you are using, it also appears you are running Windows, not Linux. Please ignore these remarks if I am wrong. Although not directly related to your playback problems, it is related to your overall system performance.

A swap file on a separate partition can be a performance improvement, *IF* it is located on a separate physical hard disk, and that is a fast hard disk, and it is located at the beginning of the drive. In your case, if I have it correct, you have located a partition for the swap file as the third partition on the same physical disk as the OS. That unfortunately will hurt your performance, since it is using the same drive heads as the OS, and from a distant and slower part of the drive. You would see better performance by moving it back to the OS partition, setting the minimum and maximum sizes to be the same, and running something like PageDefrag to make sure it is defragged. Better yet would be a separate dedicated fast hard drive for it.

[CyRex]

Originally Posted by pvr599

I recorded American Idol perfectly from FOX HD. Not a big deal for recording the wrong show, I expected that to happen. It's the fact that it recorded FOXHD.

What were you expecting it to record? Since the tuner is connected to the cable box via s-video, whatever you are currently watching on the cable box would get recorded by Sage. Even though the channel was HD, the cable box is outputting an SD version of it over the s-video.

As for H/W acceleration, check in Detailed Settings->Advanced(?) for the 'Enable 3D Acceleration' option.

-Dan

[pvr599]

Carlgar - I ordered that amplifier. Thanks!!

RobJ - Yep, I'm running Windows XP. That setup is exactly right as you explained. I can't really get a separate drive for the swap, so I'll move it back to the OS partition. Thanks for the tip.

Cyrex - Ahhh, ok. So it's not actually recording HD. That makes sense. I thought I had something interesting there. Turns out it's not. Oh well. LOL 3D acceration is enabled.

[troycheek]

Originally Posted by pvr599

I can't really get a separate drive for the swap, so I'll move it back to the OS partition.

Having the swap file in its own partition will at least keep it from getting fragmented. If it's in the OS partition, then it might get tangled with all those log files and temp files that Windows likes to create. Putting it far away from the OS partition is bad, as RobJ says. It put my swap partition just after the OS partition.

No matter how fast your Sage recording drives are, do not give into temptation and put the page file on one of them. That didn't work for me at all.

[CyRex]

The signal amplifier you ordered should (hopefully) make worlds of difference for your HDHR experience. The HDHR was the most hassel-free part of my system, until I got the HD100 that is. (Well actually there was a bit of work involved with getting the correct channel mappings, etc etc, but that was expected. Since I got that sorted out, it has been rock solid.)

-Dan

[carlgar]

pvr599, I suspected that you bought it when I saw the auction end early.

You should be aware the you will need to terminate any unused ports on the amp. You will also need a RG6 cable to connect the power adaptor to the Amp. You should have as few splitters before the amp as you can. I think you are ok if you are replacing a 4 way or 2 2 way splitters. If you have too many splitters before the amp, you may just end up just amplifing noise.

[hemicuda]

I put mine in the cable box outside the house. the installer had a real mess of splitters in there. one of the ports even does double-duty using a DC injection splitter so I have the amp's wall adapter running off the UPS in the server room.

I got the 8-port electroline w/ unity return for the cable modem. Ended up using all but about 3 ports on it.

[pvr599]

Originally Posted by carlgar

pvr599, I suspected that you bought it when I saw the auction end early.

You should be aware the you will need to terminate any unused ports on the amp. You will also need a RG6 cable to connect the power adaptor to the Amp. You should have as few splitters before the amp as you can. I think you are ok if you are replacing a 4 way or 2 2 way splitters. If you have too many splitters before the amp, you may just end up just amplifing noise.

I can run the line directly from the box outside to the amp and then out from there. What did you mean I need a RG6 to connect the power adapter? I should be coming very soon, so maybe I could see for myself what you're talking about. I wish with USPS you could track your stuff like UPS. It would give me something to do this weekend

[carlgar]

Yes, the connection from the power adaptor to the amp is a RG6 type cable. If you look at the picture you will see the power adaptor only has the screw on type connection for the cable. This amp is normally used by professional installers and they can make a RG6 cable of the needed length at install time.

I got my amp about 2 or 3 days after it was sent. It was sent priorty mail, I would have expected to have received it by now. I think you bought it from the same seller I did.

[pvr599]

Ok, well here is my update. I finally got the amp today. I have the cable from the outside going straight in. I'm using 4 outputs. I terminated all the open ends.
1 - Cable Modem
2 - Cable to a splitter to all my tuners (I plan to connect all my tuners directly to the amp, no splitters. I just can't do it right now)
3 - HDHR
4 - HDHR

I rescanned all the channels. and am getting up to 94% SS and 90% SQ. I'm still getting all the original problems. skipping and studdering.

Any ideas?
Thanks!!