To Water Cool or Not to Water Cool a HTPC Server?

[Humanzee]

That is the question.
Q: Do you need water cooling? A: Probably not.
Q: Do you want water cooling? A: I don’t know.
Q: Then why are you asking? A: Because I already have some parts.

I have one of the first generation Koolance water cooling cases just sitting around. I mean its pretty old, maybe 8 years or so. I can't even find a picture of this model on the net. It has the radiator on the bottom of the case instead of the top like most I see these days. It was originally my mothers if you can believe that, but I've of course been recruited to fix it on occasion. The first event happened on warranty from the vendor. Apparently the first water cooled cases just used plain water and after a few months it developed some life forms inside the tubes. They generated some gases and eventually busted a seal on one of the tubes. Shorted out the motherboard etc. Then the original pumps quit after a couple of years and I rebuilt it with an Eheim aquarium pump. A few years after that the water cooled power supply went out on it and I decided it was becoming too much trouble for my mom. Got her a conventional case and thus I have this one just sitting here.

So, it’s time to build a new server. I have client HTPC’s and expect to get an HD100 or equivalent at some point so I don’t really expect to do a lot of transcoding. However, I do commercial detect, and run some MySQL database applications that will be running 24/7. I am probably going to be building with an Intel Q6600 chip not because I need Quad core but because they are not that expensive. Also, I figure with 3 or 4 applications running 24/7 It couldn’t hurt to have more than 2 cores. Also I hear the Q6600 can over-clock quite well if need be, even on air.

Is it a no brain'r to use this water cooling case? I would have to buy a new water block and switch out the power supply to get it running again. Being an early design the Koolance radiator may not be that efficient anyway. My hesitation comes from the past experience with this case, even though it was years between problems. My current computers are on air and have chugged away basically with out any issues for 4-6 years or so. The case also doesn't have the best lay out for attaching drives etc so I'm wondering if it will have enough room for expansion. My current server has 7 drives in it plus an optical drive. I can maybe fit 4 in this one. Granted I will probably be moving to TB disks so I can drop from 7 drives maybe down to 3 anyway, but it seems like I might be limiting myself down the road.

I’m looking at an ABIT IP35Pro mother board. Will water cooling then leave me without adequate air circulation for the chipset, or will the power supply fan pull enough volume? Should I be considering additional water blocks or fans for other parts of my system? Don't need a crazy water cooled graphics card as this will only drive a 20" monitor. I’ve barely attempted over-clocking in the past so I want stability over anything else. The server will be in its own room so looks and noise are not a real concern. Should I build a server off a marginal but available water cooling solution or probably spend more money and start fresh with a air cooled new case? What say you?

[Paul H]

I used Thermaltake parts and in 3 months went thru 2 pumps when the second unit (these were all-in-one units, preassembled and charged) arrived with a leaking fitting I returned it and Thermaltake's tech support said that the unit was discontinued and sent me this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...71635&CatId=99

It works fine and I haves no worries about pumps and leaks.

My TCW: If you put in a liquid cooling system add a flow monitor like this:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...2384&CatId=499

[Humanzee]

So I take it that is one vote of no confidence in water cooling.

[Slipshod]

I wouldn't do it - too much risk for no real gains. Any failure that happens will be serious, system-wide, and take time to fix. You don't need to reduce noise (it's a server), or crazy-overclock, and servers should be reliable above all else.

Just my opinion. I'll OC the crap out of my desktop, but I keep the server stock.


Cheers,
Slipshod

[CollinR]

Okay I guess I'l ltake the other side.

I am seriously considering watercooling my servers so I have better control over where the heat exchange takes place. Right now it's tough to keep my server closet cool enough for me to feel good without keeping the house 65*.

Also all these toy "kits" are concerning so I wouldn't even bother with them. They may work okay to cool one system but for me it's way more expensive and way less effective not to mention they have focused more on looking cool then anything else.

Having the radiator inside the case defeats the whole point IMHO.

My plan is more about having the servers in tandem and pumps (2) and heat exchangers (2) that can over much more load. I would use 2 pumps for redundency and 2 exchangers so I can:

1) Transfer the heat energy to the first floor during the winter. (Exchanger in plenum)

2) Remove the heat energy during the summer so my AC doesn't have to fight it. (exchanger bured in crawlspace)

Most of the PC radiators I have seen are simply automotive heater cores painted black, don't be fooled by that.

Also the cool "UV" hose, I'm out...

[Menehune]

I would probably do a rebuild of the system and put in new tubing and possibly a heat exchanger with a larger capacity since the amount of heat the system could absorb when it was designed may be less than current parts could generate.

I experimented (for six months) with WCing my desktop machine in the hope the noise generated would be less (the machine is in my bedroom), but the number of fans were the same, the temps did not change and coolant levels in my tank kept dropping even though I could never find any leaks.

I went back to air and never looked back.

I always thought the way the navy cools their battle computers was smartest-circulate refrigerated water thru the computer then you never need to worry about the ambient air temps in the computer room.

Maybe a custom split system (like an AC heat pump) with a metal tank attached to a cascade cooler located in a basement or far away closet, to chill the water and insulated tubing running to the PC. The amount of heat generated by the components, the quantity of water in the system and the heat removed by the heat pump would need to be calculated to prevent the system turning to a block of ice.

[Slipshod]

My favorite cooling method is immersion in Mineral oil. Saw some crazy dudes hack up a refridgerator and stick the freezer coils and motherboard in a cooler filled with mineral oil and a fountain circulation system. Highly effective cooling, probably the best I've seen. Completely insane though.

[dgeezer]

Here is how I keep my server completely (almost) silent and cool.

I built a small plywood box about 11" tall by 4-1/2" wide by 5" deep. The top piece is extended to sit on top of my server's case. The box creates a plenum which covers the power supply and case fan of my server. When I shove the server back into it's cabinet this plenum lines up with hole in the back of the cabinet which connects into the next room. I cut another hole in the back to provide make up air to the fans. This way I can close it up in a cabinet and it still stays cool. I've tested the temp in the cabinet and it always stays within a few degrees of the ambient room temp.

I know it's kind of a redneck solution but it works great. I'll post pics and drawings if anyone is interested.

[Grasshopper]

My server has been running in a Koolance water-cooled case for several years now, without a hiccup. I like it not so much for the CPU or chipset (since I'm not overclocking), but to cool the hard drives.

My PC client uses a Zantec Reserator to cool the CPU, chipset and video card, for noise reduction. That works fine, too.

[paulbeers]

I think you are probably going to get a 50/50 split on this with those who have experience with watercooling. IMHO I wouldn't do it for a Sage server.....My reasoning is that especially if you use any internal tuner cards, they get hot. I want as many fans in my box moving air so that they do not overheat and die. I have only used watercooling once and that was for an overclocking "experiment"....I was able to overclock a couple of Pentium 3 700e's to 1.2 ghz each about 6? years ago (can't remember, maybe it was 7). Without watercooling I was only able to get it reliably to 1.0 ghz each. What I also found was that the little gain in overclock, wasn't worth the cost IMHO. I was able to push my system 20 percent faster with about a 10 percent real world gain for a couple hundred bucks....Granted, watercooling has come down and parts are more readily available, but anyway.

I realize the question isn't that you are going to overclock, it has more to do with whether just to use it to cool and based on my experience, there is no reason. Fans do a great job, cost less, and have a lot less parts that can go wrong......One small leak can wreak havok. Yes I realise you can have the CPU fan go out, but that's only one piece that can break your whole system....not 20 pieces (if you count every piece of tubing/cooling block/etc.).

[KWolfe81]

I converted my HTPC to watercooling a year ago and absolutely love it. In terms of reliability, I would argue watercooling has a higher MTBF. The only thing that can fail in my system is a pump and dust collection simply isn't an issue. If you use the appropriate hardware you will never get a leak. And even if you do, believe it or not, it isn't necessarily fatal, and rarely cataclysmic (I've seen a whole beer get spilled on a motherboard and it didn't do a thing). This is compared to the three (!) HSFs that I've had die on me or get enough dust on them to fry the CPUs.

One drawback is that HTPC cases tend to be smaller and compact which can make putting all the watercooling components all inside difficult. I've managed to do it but do not look forward to ever replacing anything inside the PC as it is a lot more work.

Anyway, thats just my experience.

- Kevin

(EDIT: I forgot to mention the real reason I went this route is for noise. All I have that make noise now are two 120mm fans that are inaudible from > 6 inches, the HDs, and a PSU fan - and the PSU fan is going to get removed for a home-brewed watercooled PSU soon)