Urgh Placeshifter vs Client - Neither does the job 100%

[brettuk]

Hi,

I'm annoyed because Placeshifter works well, but I cannot for the life of me get the video output to display on the TV, it will only display on the laptop screen and not via SVIDEO. The menus work fine but the video doesn't.

The client works in this regard, yet I find it more jittery and less smooth than Placeshifter. I was watching some saved video (note: not recorded tv) and I had to switch to the Placeshifter as the client just started being jittery with the video, after being fine for a while.
Placeshifter also wont work with aero (which is annoying), doesn't have proper remote control support and doesn't work with DVD rips.

Any suggestions to perhaps get rid of the jitteryness of the client? Any codecs I have to install or anything?

Thanks

[rrambo]

Originally Posted by brettuk

Hi,

I'm annoyed because Placeshifter works well, but I cannot for the life of me get the video output to display on the TV, it will only display on the laptop screen and not via SVIDEO. The menus work fine but the video doesn't.

The client works in this regard, yet I find it more jittery and less smooth than Placeshifter. I was watching some saved video (note: not recorded tv) and I had to switch to the Placeshifter as the client just started being jittery with the video, after being fine for a while.
Placeshifter also wont work with aero (which is annoying), doesn't have proper remote control support and doesn't work with DVD rips.

Any suggestions to perhaps get rid of the jitteryness of the client? Any codecs I have to install or anything?

Thanks

I haven't noticed that with placeshifter.. just to test out my setup, I played an entire movie yesterday here at work with placeshifter across the internet to my sage server at home.. not a single hiccup for the entire movie...

[mayamaniac]

It's not that they are not doing the job, you just haven't properly configured them.

placeshifter is meant to play streamed content across the internet. you need to set the TV as the primary monitor for placeshifter to playback on your TV.

your client stutters can be caused by many factors depending on your system's hardware capabilites, decoder settings, and display settings (overlay/VMR9). List those three settings and someone will you out.

[brettuk]

Client is less stuttery when connected to a wired network (used wireless before, although placeshifter works fine over wireless), although it still doesn't appear as smooth as SKY for example, not quite sure why that is, a limitation of S-VIDEO perhaps? I'm in the UK so i'm using PAL, which could be the case, although as far as I am aware i've set it up to be using PAL. I have been considering the media extender but i'm not sure just how much of an improvement I will get in picture quality over just plugging a laptop S-VIDEO out into a TV. How much improvement is there? (on a standard definition TV)

(P.S. I'll try the placeshifter primary display thing when I get chance, cheers for that tip - I always use "clone" where both displays show the same stuff)

Thanks,
Brett

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by brettuk

Client is less stuttery when connected to a wired network (used wireless before, although placeshifter works fine over wireless)

Placeshifter transcodes content on the server side to fit the available bandwidth. Client doesn't transcode; it just accesses the file directly over the LAN (if possible), or streams the raw content through the server (if not directly accessible). If your LAN bandwidth isn't up to snuff, Client will stutter, while Placeshifter will adapt.

Which you choose depends on your situation. Client scales better to large systems, by minimizing the per-client load on the server CPU. Placeshifter works better where network bandwidth is iffy, but with less scalability due to higher server-side CPU load.

[brettuk]

I'd rather use placeshifter, but mainly cause I already own a license for it, but... playing DVD rips is important to me, however I may hold off, because as far as i am aware, if I do get a HD Extender, it uses a modified placeshifter that can play ripped dvds. We'll see.

Thanks everyone

[Peggysis]

I stream over wireless g and always have to increase numbufs (or something like that) in the Windows registry when I install a new version of SageTV Client. Otherwise, I get stuttering. I increase the default 10x or more. Once that's set, I have no problems unless the throughput drops below 38.

I think the key is under local user, software, sagetv, client. Let me know if you can't figure it out, and I'll try to find my notes for you. (Not at home right now.)

Hope this helps!

-Judy

[scoob101]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Placeshifter transcodes content on the server side to fit the available bandwidth. Client doesn't transcode; it just accesses the file directly over the LAN (if possible), or streams the raw content through the server (if not directly accessible). If your LAN bandwidth isn't up to snuff, Client will stutter, while Placeshifter will adapt.

Which you choose depends on your situation. Client scales better to large systems, by minimizing the per-client load on the server CPU. Placeshifter works better where network bandwidth is iffy, but with less scalability due to higher server-side CPU load.

Great description, I was trying to work out what the difference was

Are there any recommended minimum bandwidth requirements for SD and HD content which we could use as a guide? I havent purchased SageTV (yet) and I am struggling to make a choice about whether placeshifter or Client is the better option for me to use on my home LAN.

[GKusnick]

Well, there are other differences too, such as the ability to configure codecs in SageTVClient. See this FAQ for details.

Regarding bandwidth, SD content typically runs about 2-3 GB/hr (depending on your quality settings), which works out to ~6 Mbit/sec. For HD the figures are typically around 6-8 GB/hr or ~15 Mbit/sec. So even a 100 Mbit wired LAN should have plenty of headroom for multiple playback streams. Wireless LAN is iffier; wireless G should be OK for SD but is pushing it for HD. Go wired if you can.

[freedml]

I'm having trouble using Placeshifter with my wireless network. I think it assumes there's plenty of bandwidth because it is a local network and therefore doesn't work most of the time. If I plug the same notebook in and turn off the wireless it works fine. Placeshifter adjusts the picture quality reliably to match the available bandwidth when I'm viewing over the internet but not on the LAN. I've tried the three streaming settings in Placeshifter but can't get one to work reliably.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by freedml

Placeshifter adjusts the picture quality reliably to match the available bandwidth when I'm viewing over the internet but not on the LAN. I've tried the three streaming settings in Placeshifter but can't get one to work reliably.

Right, Sage won't transcode the video when the Placeshifter client is on the same LAN as the server. It sounds like you tried returning off dynamic streaming and manually setting the encoding parameters. What did you set them to? Is your server fast enough to do the encoding on the fly? You might want to check the CPU usage on the server when you're connecting via placeshifter. Sage will peg the processor for a little while when you first connect, but after 30 seconds or so CPU usage should drop down a bit.

But, I'm a little surprised you're having problems streaming the full mpeg2 file without transcoding. Are you in an apartment or some other area with a lot of access points around you?

[freedml]

No, fairly isolated area with no other nearby networks.

It shouldn't treat a wired lan the same as a wireless connection, but it does.

I tried manual settings from default down to 50kbps but not much luck.

[wayner]

To those in the know:

Can Placeshifter play files from a HD-PVR? When you are on your LAN it appears that Placeshifter can be set to not transcode - therefore what are the differences between using Client and Placeshifter when you are on your LAN? If I remember correctly licensing is different as well is it not? Placeshift licensing is for concurrent users while Client license is per machine - is that correct?

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by wayner

To those in the know:

Can Placeshifter play files from a HD-PVR? When you are on your LAN it appears that Placeshifter can be set to not transcode - therefore what are the differences between using Client and Placeshifter when you are on your LAN? If I remember correctly licensing is different as well is it not? Placeshift licensing is for concurrent users while Client license is per machine - is that correct?

No. Doesn't support HD-PVR files yet. Check out the FAQ but one difference is PS can't play DVD rips. Correct on the licensing.

Gerry

[wayner]

Do you mean the FAQ in the Software forum? I don't see anything relating to the HD-PVR in that document. Shouldn't this be in the PDF file for Sage?

[gplasky]

I meant the FAQ regarding differences between PS and client that are not HD-PVR specific. Your other 2 questions don't apply to the HD-PVR because PS can't play the file type. The only file type played natively by all the clients is MPEG2 with no transcoding. The HD100 can handle h.264 natively. The server/client can handle h.264 ONLY if you purchase and install the proper codec. And hopefully the next revision of Sage will have the PS able to handle h.264. But you'll probably need a more powerful CPU for your PC/laptop. (Just guessing)

Gerry