Some DirecTV recordings missing random time chunks

[phelme]

For the past month or so, a few SageTV recordings from one of my DirecTV H20 receivers have been chopped up into multiple files and skipping chunks of time as a result. My guess is the signal must be getting low and SageTV stops recording until it deems the signal worthy again. You can tell that Sage is in charge because you can see that the receiver has been re-tuned to the same channel by the re-appearance of the receiver banner.

So, two things. I need to see what's going on with the receiver. It could be simply dying and maybe it's rebooting, not sure how to tell. The signal level is low-ish on the channels that are the most affected too. National HD MPEG-4 channels like BravoHD seem to get hit the most. And that's on the narrow band Ka 103 satellite where alignment is critical so I'll look at realigning it first.

But on the Sage front, I wonder how Sage decides there isn't enough signal to continue recording and subsequently stops. At no point do I ever see a message from the satellite receiver saying the signal is low (nor "No Signal" from Sage), when there is a time skip, there's just a blip and then you see the satellite banner with the channel change to the same channel. Sometimes seconds, sometimes a couple minutes later. I'm not sure what's going on. Occasionally I'd see pixelated break-ups in the picture, but now that I have an HD-PVR on it, I never see that .

Anyone have any thoughts?

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by phelme

So my HD-PVR arrived and it works quite well with recordings but... live streams are giving me a problem.

The HD-PVR is actually not on the server, but on a network encoder which doubles as a client. I've used a PVR-150 and a PVR-USB2 this way forever. If I watch the live stream on the SageTV client on the server, there isn't any problem. But if I try to watch the live stream on one for my other clients (both PC's) i get lots of pauses and eventually the playback just stops. If I buffer-up say 5 minutes of a show, then it seems to work OK.

I also have an HDHomeRun and I can watch HD live streams all day and never have an issue, so it's not the network.

Is anyone else using an HD-PVR as a networked encoder and why would the HDHR be fine for live streaming, but the HD-PVR not? I'm guessing it all has to do with the H.264 decoding.

My 'guess' is that the problem you referred to in this other post is your main issue. You're dealing with a lot to diagnose:

1. Network Encoder process
2. Encoder PC load question
3. Network load (traffic percentage)
4. Network type/speed (wired, wireless)
5. Network protocol
6. Types of PCs being networked
7. Firewall issue
8. Other processes causing timeouts

Have you run a LAN speed test between the two machines?

Before I found this other post I was going to suggest that you watch 'LiveTV' and see when it sputters, but since you know this is an issue...

[BFisher]

I have 2 HD DirecTV STBs that I use. If it loses signal - Sage records black screens, or even "lost satellite signal" screens. Not once has Sage paused recording because it lost a signal...

So I don't think this is the reason you are missing time in your recordings.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by BFisher

I have 2 HD DirecTV STBs that I use. If it loses signal - Sage records black screens, or even "lost satellite signal" screens. Not once has Sage paused recording because it lost a signal...

So I don't think this is the reason you are missing time in your recordings.

Hmm, interesting. a black/no signal screen is what I would expect to happen. I guess it could be network related; that encoder/client does nothing else so I doubt its load on the machine.

So the puzzlement is what could be causing the re-tuning to occur (especially if it's not Sage doing it)? Maybe it's my Paterson serial device flipping out? Though I'm thinking more & more it's the DirecTV receiver itself. It is an older H20 getting on in years. And that thing runs HOT.

I guess I'll have to pull the network cable on the client a few times and see how Sage behaves to eliminate that angle. If that's a dead end, I'll just order a new model receiver.

Appreciate the help!

[Conejo]

SageTV will send channel change commands at the start of a recording, or whenever an error is detected in an active Tuner/Encoder driver when that driver is reset/available.

So if your network is interrupted or overloaded it will cause an error in the driver on the SageTV box and Sage will attempt a restart of the recording.

It could also happen if the HD-PVR process on your second PC is interrupted, causing the UDP stream to drop.

Also, if you're using 'composite' or 'component' into an encoder device, it will encode whatever it finds. You could unplug the video cables and this would not interrupt the recording (unless the encoder detects a loss of sync signal and errors out).

[phelme]

well, after some feedback from the DBSTalk folks and some testing of putting the DirecTV receiver under stress the problem appears to be the receiver itself.

the immediate response from the satellite community was, you have a particular receiver that is known to overheat and the symptoms align with that. Sure enough if I turn off the receiver and then turn it back on a bit later, SageTV (through the HD-PVR) stops recording during the off period. When the receiver is powered back up, the receiver re-tunes the channel itself and HD-PVR again starts recording. This is exactly what I'm seeing. If the receiver gets hot enough where it needs to reboot itself (simulated through pulling the power on the H20), the HD-PVR again stops recording. When the receiver has reset itself several minutes later after re-acquiring satellites & data, the channel is again re-tuned and the HD-PVR starts recording again. This would account for the 5 minute chunks of time missing on various recordings. I'd never see the receiver's activity because the video outs are shut off during this time. The HD-PVR obviously knows when there is any signal coming off the video (or audio I guess) and activates itself accordingly.

Now I just need to decide whether to get a laptop cooler for the H20-600 receiver, which is what the DBS people recommend or simply get a new H21 receiver for $75 more. I'm leaning towards the latter.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Conejo

SageTV will send channel change commands at the start of a recording, or whenever an error is detected in an active Tuner/Encoder driver when that driver is reset/available.

So if your network is interrupted or overloaded it will cause an error in the driver on the SageTV box and Sage will attempt a restart of the recording.

It could also happen if the HD-PVR process on your second PC is interrupted, causing the UDP stream to drop.

Also, if you're using 'composite' or 'component' into an encoder device, it will encode whatever it finds. You could unplug the video cables and this would not interrupt the recording (unless the encoder detects a loss of sync signal and errors out).

This is good info. I'll double check network loss behavior before I order up a new receiver. As I mentioned above, the HD-PVR apparently knows when the component signal is lost and so stops itself.

Something to note. Testing this with "Live TV" is a bit of a chore as when the HD-PVR stops recording the client interface watching that feed becomes frozen or deadly slow as well. Eventually one can stop the recording, but there is definitely a wait to do so.

[phelme]

Well, I have a new receiver on order but the problem is continuing in full-force. Most hour long programs have 3-4 breaks. When looking at the logs (both on the encoder & the server), the server is detecting problems with the encoder and tries to rectify the situation. This causes the reset:

(server) Wed 7/23 10:25:09 SEEKER HAS DETECTED A HALT IN THE ENCODER...TRYING TO RESET IT
(encoder) Wed 7/23 10:25:09 EncodingServer received connection:Socket[addr=/10.0.1.35,port=3511,localport=6969]
(encoder) Wed 7/23 10:25:09.494 stopEncoding0 called (config:0x100800)

this triggers a stop & start on the encoder side, along with the DTV serial channel change command. What is still not clear is what is causing this to happen. I've eliminated the network portion by running hours long tests where the connection has never dropped.

So it's either the HD-PVR itself, the component cables (since removing the video signal causes the HD-PVR to stop) or the receiver. I've witnessed the receiver live during one of these faults on at least one occasion and it didn't appear to "burp" at all, so now I'm thinking that the HD-PVR itself may be faulty. I'm going to swap out the component cables today and check the bad/loose cable angle and see if that makes any difference.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Conejo

SageTV will send channel change commands at the start of a recording, or whenever an error is detected in an active Tuner/Encoder driver when that driver is reset/available.

So if your network is interrupted or overloaded it will cause an error in the driver on the SageTV box and Sage will attempt a restart of the recording.

OK, figured what Sage does here. The server checks the size of the recording file every 5 minutes to see if it changes, if it doesn't, then it initiates a stop/start of the encoder, re-tunes the channel and builds a new file segment. This is what I'm seeing happen to me.

Originally Posted by Conejo

It could also happen if the HD-PVR process on your second PC is interrupted, causing the UDP stream to drop.

What looks like is happening is the HD-PVR is just stopping. Why, I have no idea. There is nothing in the Sage logs on either the server or the encoding PC to indicate the HD-PVR has stopped on it's own.

There are however Java socket errors on the encoder side like the following:

Thu 7/24 18:05:00.290 Seeker waiting for 153722846998447 mins.
Thu 7/24 18:05:06.207 EncodingServer received connection:Socket[addr=/10.0.1.35,port=3499,localport=6969]
Thu 7/24 18:05:13.609 Ministry is waiting for 180 sec
Thu 7/24 18:05:21.727 Error with EncodingServer socket:java.net.SocketTimeoutException: Read timed out

but they happen every 5 minutes whether or not the encoder is recording. So I think they don't truly mean anything. If anyone knows what they could be referring to please let me know.

Anyone know if there is any logging capability in the HD-PVR and if so how to enable it? Hauppague hasn't replied to my inquiry about this yet.

[Conejo]

A *lot* of people are having heat issues with their HD-PVRs. If your time breaks happen consistently (at least once every 30-45 minutes) then you might want to test if the issue is just with the HD-PVR:

Disconnect the Component and Audio cables
Connect it to a DVD or VCR via component or s-video
Record a source (DVD, VCR tape or tuner) for a couple of hours worth
Check for time breaks

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Conejo

A *lot* of people are having heat issues with their HD-PVRs. If your time breaks happen consistently (at least once every 30-45 minutes) then you might want to test if the issue is just with the HD-PVR:

Disconnect the Component and Audio cables
Connect it to a DVD or VCR via component or s-video
Record a source (DVD, VCR tape or tuner) for a couple of hours worth
Check for time breaks

No, the breaks are completely random. Sometimes they happen, sometimes they don't. Sometimes there are 2 per hour show, sometimes 3, 4 or 5. It's so frustrating and *nothing* in the logs that I see gives any indication why it's happening. All I know is that the HD-PVR has stopped recording (not that there is any mention of that in the encoder logs of course) and the server's 5 minute file-size check starts the encoder recording again.

Before I send the HD-PVR back, as I'm pretty sure it's the culprit, I'm going to run it for a while on the server itself and take the whole network encoder component out of the picture.

I've seen a lot of people mention freezing with their HD-PVR (mine hasn't done that), but no one has ever mentioned it just stopping, have they?

[Conejo]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't making myself clear.

IF you are getting at minimum one failure *somewhere* in an hour then it is consistent enough to do troubleshooting. We know that a drop in Video Sync signal (like unplugging it) will cause the HD-PVR to stop encoding (well, if it's used as a network encoder). So do what I suggested in my previous post:

Disconnect the STB
Connect another source to the HD-PVR
Record for 1-1/2 to 2 hours
See if the breaks continue

If they continue then we'll know
1. it's not the STB
2. It could still be anything left in the chain (STB - Drivers or software conflict - Sage Network Encoder software - Ethernet Network - Network Drivers - SageTV box)

AND I like your idea of connecting it straight to the SageTV box. THAT will eliminate a lot of the chain! (I would have suggested this but I assumed the idea would be shot down as, usually, there's a preventive reason WHY you're doing over-network encoding.)

[Conejo]

Once you've done the 'direct connect' test, you might want to start a Support Request with SageTV and describe your exact setup and issue:

PC Hardware, OS, Service Packs
Version of SageTV, SageTV used as network encoder
Encoder-Tuners (built-in and network)

They should then tell you what logs they'll need. The may know where to look to see what's causing this issue.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Conejo

Sorry, I guess I wasn't making myself clear.

IF you are getting at minimum one failure *somewhere* in an hour then it is consistent enough to do troubleshooting. We know that a drop in Video Sync signal (like unplugging it) will cause the HD-PVR to stop encoding (well, if it's used as a network encoder). So do what I suggested in my previous post:

Disconnect the STB
Connect another source to the HD-PVR
Record for 1-1/2 to 2 hours
See if the breaks continue

If they continue then we'll know
1. it's not the STB
2. It could still be anything left in the chain (STB - Drivers or software conflict - Sage Network Encoder software - Ethernet Network - Network Drivers - SageTV box)

AND I like your idea of connecting it straight to the SageTV box. THAT will eliminate a lot of the chain! (I would have suggested this but I assumed the idea would be shot down as, usually, there's a preventive reason WHY you're doing over-network encoding.)

Well for now, I'm trying to record the DirecTV STB on the encoding PC itself under Sage, having turned OFF the enable_encoding_server option. It's been running this way for over an hour now with no breaks.

I *could* move the DirecTV box to where the server is, as now there is a satellite drop there too (there wasn't when I originally installed Sage 18 months ago), I just kind of hate installing all the Hauppauge stuff on the server itself and contaminating it.