Recommend a setup for going to HD from SD SageTV

[shatter]

Hi,

I see a bunch of these threads and I hate starting another but I have read and read and think I know what I am doing but.....

I wanted to upgrade from a SD system to a HD one. I have Sage running a P4-2.4ghz system with a PVR-350 on Windows XP Pro. I currently have Dish Network service. I am thinking of going to a HDTV and HD signal via Dish Network. The computer currently tunes the sat box to the channel I want to record I assume the HD setup would work the same way.

Here are my requirements/situation...

1) All HD and SD recording, all channels, all the time, need all the Dish Network channels.

2) My main TV has the server computer at it for a direct hookup. I could hide the server somewhere but haven't do so so far. I built the box using an ultra quiet power supply and fans so noise hasn't been an issue so far.

3) I'd say typical use is 1 TV viewing at a time. I do have SageTV Client running in my office so there could be 2 viewers at a time.

4) I have run CAT6 cable in my house and use gigabit network cards and router but I could always run more cable!

All advice is appreciated and I am not beyond rebuilding my server from the ground up if it makes sense to do so!!

Thanks!!
Chad

[Djc208]

So I would assume you want to capture and playback HD on this new TV correct? You'll need to get an HD PVR or an R5000 modded box (if it's supported) to capture HD from the new HD cable box you'll have to get. You could continue to use the existing setup for SD stations as well.

Second question will be how you plan on playing back the recordings? The HD PVR records in H.264, and some of the sat companies are transmitting in it too (if you go R5000). So you'll need more horsepower for playback than with MPEG2 recordings.

You can either look to update the computer to do the playback with a newer graphics card and H.264 decoder that supports it. Or try and pick up one of the HD200's and use that at the TV for playback. If you don't do playback on the server then you really don't need much more than you have for hardware. I had something similar until just recently.

The HD PVR can be hard enough so my suggestion would be to order the HD PVR and an HD200. Move the server, the sat boxes (your existing SD and the new HD), and HD PVR into it's hiding place and use the cat6 to stream to the HD200 and your office PC.

[shatter]

Thanks for the reply. I am still learning here and have a couple more questions. Could I use a HVR-1600 as my HD and SD recorder running coax from the TV out of the dish network box (like I currently do for my SD setup [box to pvr-350])? If so, would I just run a splitter between the TV out and the inputs on the HVR-1600 so I can record both HD and SD broadcasts?

Then I'd use a quality video card with a HDMI output for HD and s-video output for SD play back? Then I switch the TV to whatever input source I want depending if I am watching HD or SD content.

The server would handle all the recording and playback of content.

One other thing just case to mind. I am not too up on all this Clear QAM vs encrypted stuff but as long as I output from the TV out of the dish box, is this even an issue?

Thanks!
Chad

[pjpjpjpj]

QAM is unencrypted programming from cable TV. You won't get it from DishNetwork.

I don't believe there is an STB that outputs HD via coax. The digital/ATSC coax connection on that card (1600) is meant for antenna or QAM from cable.

As said above, you will need an HD-PVR. It takes the component out from your STB and then connects to your server via USB.

You also don't need to use both HDMI and S-video to your television from your PC. The HDMI will carry SD signals too.

See the attached sketch. The top line is the basic setup, and the lower two (in red, though you can't tell... yay, MS Paint!) would be if you optionally added more "tuners".

You will also need USB-UIRT devices to "blink" the channel changing to your Dish STB(s). I did not show those on the sketch.

[TallMomof2]

You're planning on using your server at your main TV so you'll definitely need a serious upgrade. Core 2 quad is a good choice with an HD compatible card, assuming that your TV is HDMI, look for one with HDMI out. You'll need a motherboard with lots of USB ports, the HD PVR uses a lot of bandwidth so you'll only be able to use USB port from each pair out on your motherboard. If you're planning on recording and saving a lot of HD then you'll want to look for a lot of SATA ports. HD recordings are around 9 GB per hour depending on quality. 1 TB drives are cheap, just bought 5 for $99 each.

IMO, the biggest noise source will be from your video card assuming that your current power supply is up to powering your new PC. There are motherboards with onboard HD video support in the micro ATX form factor. I haven't tried one but if you search the forum you'll find a few discussions. There are also passively cooled video boards. YMMV.

You may want to look into WHS (Windows Home Server) for your new server. There are pros and cons. Vista is also a posiibility because of the built in EVR support. I'm running XP Pro SP3 but my server is also used for other computer tasks. After the first of the year I'm planning on building a dedicated media server but my biggest problem is that my home is not ethernet wired and all three stories are finished so that pulling cable is a major headache.

Good luck with your project!

[shatter]

Great responses! Thank you. I currently use a USB-UIRT equivalent (not at home to check specific make/model) to tune my Dish box and would plan on doing the same kind of thing in the future.

Now I feel good about the direction I am headed! Need a new media server as I use it to do all sorts of things beyond the SageTV recordings. Use a HD-PVR for my Dish HD/SD recordings. I see some issues people have with the HD-PVR so now I'll do some research on that!

My biggest concern now will be that the new system will be so noisy that I will need to relocate it elsewhere and buy a Sage HD Theater on top of everything else. HD is definitely more intensive than your typical SD setup!

If I use the Sage HD Theater and HD-PVR can I get away with reusing my current P4-2.4ghz server?

[AJ Bertelson]

Originally Posted by shatter

If I use the Sage HD Theater and HD-PVR can I get away with reusing my current P4-2.4ghz server?

yes

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by shatter

If I use the Sage HD Theater and HD-PVR can I get away with reusing my current P4-2.4ghz server?

Sure, I had a 2.8Ghz P4 until about a week ago and it worked fine. I only upgraded because I had the hand-me-down hardware from my desktop upgrade.

You only need any real horsepower for comskip and transcoding, and the P4 will do it, it just takes longer.

[shatter]

Great! This is my plan once I buy the HDTV and upgrade my Dish service to HD...

1. Purchase 1 - Hauppauge HD-PVR
2. Purchase 1 - Sage HD Theater
3. Continue to use my P4-2.4ghz server for now
4. Leave everything hidden in my "TV Room" for now

I already have both my Dish Boxes in my TV room, I use the first one for the main TV and the second one to record shows and run the picture to my office via the SageClient and coax line (I have run cable all over in my house.) If I want to use Sage on my main TV then I just run over to that video source. My bedroom TV shares the main Dish box output with the main TV using a RF remote to change channels. This all sounds more complex than it is.

I decided to go this route rather than using just the HD-PVR and building a new server as I am not sure if I could make the new server silent and then I'd need to hide it and get a Sage HD Theater anyways so I am going to easy route for now with a server upgrade maybe in a year who the "old" quad core processors get really cheap.

Thanks again for all of the help, it is invaluable!

One last question.. should I bump my memory up from 512MB on this server?

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by shatter

Great! This is my plan once I buy the HDTV and upgrade my Dish service to HD...

1. Purchase 1 - Hauppauge HD-PVR
2. Purchase 1 - Sage HD Theater
3. Continue to use my P4-2.4ghz server for now
4. Leave everything hidden in my "TV Room" for now

I really think this will be the easiest and best way to get the HD content to your TV. The extenders work wonderfully well for this and it's a lot less trouble than trying to get good playback on the server. Plus I beleive one of the reasons I've been lucky with my setup is that there's nothing else going on. That's really all it does, so there's less chance of conflicts with other software and programs.

One last question.. should I bump my memory up from 512MB on this server?

It can't hurt, I think 1GB is the sweet spot for XP. My server had 1 GB and it was not uncommon to see memory useage at 78%. But I wouldn't spend much on it.

[SWKerr]

You might want to still consider the Hauppauge 1600 as well. Depending on you area you can probably get OTA signal for all the major networks with a simple antenna. This would allow you to do two at a time recording in most cases depending on you viewing habits. Your new HDTV will probably have an ATSC tuner and you can see what stations you can pick up and if it would be worth it before you purchase it. The HDHR is a little pricy but is a great tuner and can be put in a closet next to your router.

[shatter]

Thanks again for the replies. The good news is I have an antenna tower and I am only 45 miles away from my state capital. I'll see what I can get OTA!

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

You might want to still consider the Hauppauge 1600 as well.

The 1600 has both an analog tuner and a digital tuner. The digital one should get you the local stations in HD. You could use the analog side to replace your PVR-350 to capture SD from your existing sat box if you wanted. Then a second HD box to the HD PVR would give you a second Dish tuner with all your dish channels including the HDs. You'd essentially have three tuners.