Anyone have powerline networking working ok?

[wayner]

I want to put a Sage extender in my bedroom but it is not easy to get ethernet to this location. So I thought I would try ethernet over powerline. I bought a pair of Belkin adapters that are supposed to give you 85 Mbps but even when I plug the pair into the same outlet I get no better than 20 Mbps and when I plug them into what would be there permanent locations I get about 5 Mbps - not good enough for streaming HD.

I am wondering whether I should bother trying the faster powerline adapters that are rated at 200 Mbps or go for a wireless N solution?

Does anyone haver powerline networking working successfully and giving you better than 20 Mbps over reasonable conditions?

[Jimb50]

Wayner
I'm using Panasonic brand power line networking ($30 a unit at Amazon a while back). It works fine for standard def and Netflix watch now but I doubt it could carry the load on HD. It's rated at a max speed of 190Mbps but I've never seen that more like 20-30.
A lot depends on distance and quality of house wiring. The model number is PA100KTA. I've been using it for over 6 months now and it's been rock solid, much better than trying to keep my wireless -G connected and no security worries.
JimB50

[Chriscic]

I think this is just going to be highly dependent on your house. I tried powerline ethernet in my house (200Mbps kit) and it was dismal; I couldn't even get any connection in parts of the house, and in others I'd get maybe 1-2Mbps.

If you're already getting 5Mbps in parts of the house it might be worth giving a faster-rated kit a try, but I wouldn't hold my breath for success.

[wayner]

I am going to give a faster powerline kit a try but I will not hold my breath. The next question is going to a wireless N bridge or gaming adapter but I currently don't have any wireless N products so that is around a $150-$200 proposition.

[DIBU]

well i have switched from wlan to powerline (devolo avdesk 200mbit) its work more than well for me.

[wayner]

What bitrate can you sustain? I generally try this out using a PC, transferring a large file and then going into Task Manager to see what speed the transfer is running at.

[MattHelm]

You might try one of these type devices. I'm not sure but you might be having problems because you are on different poles of the 230V transformer. Not sure how home powerline normally gets across this, but the old X-10 systems had problems. One way to check before buying, is turn on a 230V device (electric dryer or oven) and see if you get a better connection.


http://www.thehomeautomationstore.co...-couplers.html

[DIBU]

sorry but i dont mess averything. see for my hardware in my signature. i plug this powerline in power..and then in then in any room..it works no problem..i stream hd no problem..but it is a 230 german powerplug

[wayner]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

You might try one of these type devices. I'm not sure but you might be having problems because you are on different poles of the 230V transformer. Not sure how home powerline normally gets across this, but the old X-10 systems had problems. One way to check before buying, is turn on a 230V device (electric dryer or oven) and see if you get a better connection.

I never would have thought of that. I will try it but I wasn't even getting a decent connection when plugging both adapters into the same AC outlet so I don't know that this was the only problem.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by wayner

I never would have thought of that. I will try it but I wasn't even getting a decent connection when plugging both adapters into the same AC outlet so I don't know that this was the only problem.

Oops, didn't see that. Don't think anything will help, unless you have something very noisy on the line, and you can isolate that. They also make isolaters:
http://www.thehomeautomationstore.com/x10-filters.html

BTW, there is a slim chance that being in the smae outlet would make things not work. I'd at least try 2 outlets in the same room.

After some quick reading, they are making special devices to couple powerline networking lines. I think the reason you don't normally need these, is that powerline networking is different than X-10. X-10 was releated to the phase of the 115V signal, and was lower freq. The newer Powerline networking is high enough freq. that is will "jump" across the wires. I'd suggest anyone seeing slow speeds, try the turning on a 230V device, and if that improves things, you need a coupler.

[sainswor99]

You mentioned Wireless-N as an alternative to powerline; have you considered ethernet-over-coax? Powerline didn't work for me, but I picked up a couple of Motorola NIM100's, and these have worked with no problem.

Just another option.
Stu

[thorforyou]

In the past I used the PLE200 adapters. They worked great and streamed HD without a hitch. I have since wired my house with cat5e and that works even better.
I have a friend who uses the MOCA coax to Ethernet and it appears to be faster than the power line solution.

The powerline solution is solid and worked well for me. In some older homes I have read about problems so be sure that the store or etailer where you purchase from has a good return policy.

Bes Wishes
Thor

[TallMomof2]

thorforyou -

What MOCA coax to ethernet is your friend using? I've been looking at the new one from Netgear but they just posted info on their website in the last week. It was supposed to out last quarter but like just about everything technical it's always takes a bit longer.

I've been using the Trendnet 200 mps and it's definitely faster than wireless g but I won't be able to test it out with my HD200 until after the holidays.

[wayner]

Take 2: I bought a pair of D-Link powerline over ethernet that are supposed to give a 200 Mbps bitrate. Connected to the same AC outlet I get 30 Mbps but in a more practical setup attached to outlets where I would actually be using them I get about 9-12 Mbps which is not quite good enough. I will be returning these as I just bought the NIM-100s - I found a place on eBay that is selling them 3 at a time for $88. I will report back once these arrive - I hope they work since they will be harder to return.

[stevech]

The HomePlug Alliance (HPA) Version 2, "the" standard for ethernet on powerline. It's more commonly marketed as "HPA AV".

HPA is prevailing in the standards world. HPA version 1 is just silly, and it's what you see in the cheap products still for sale. HPA 2 has been out for a long time.

It uses OFDM for transmission. Same as WiFi uses, though unlike WiFi, HPA AV uses no carrier frequency such as the 2.4GHz channels. The OFDM signal "baseband" is sent directly on the power line, spanning the range of 2-28MHz. (Ye Ole X10 remote controls used tone bursts at about 100KHz)

So, speed on HPA AV and most proprietary equivalents - depends on how many "signal suckers" are on your power circuits. Signal suckers are devices that attenuate these high frequencies. Most modern audio-visual equipment does attenuate, and most power strips and UPSes that have transient suppressors in them. So portions of or all of 2-28MHz can get attenuated. With OFDM, this causes a drop in throughput because the "coding rate" (forward error correction) overhead must go up and/or fewer OFDM tones in that range are used. And blah blah blah.

In wireless like 802.11g/n, OFDM, the analogy of a signal suckers on the power line would be walls and floors that attenuate the 2.4GHz signal, though not as frequency dependent as the power line signal suckers.

http://www.homeplug.org/about/faqs/

http://www.homeplug.org/products/whi...per_050818.pdf

So I'm not a fan of broadband on inside-the-home power line. More problematic than 2.4 or 5.8GHz WiFi, though WiFi has the issue of overcrowding.

If I'm mistaken about any of this, please fire away.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by stevech

...

If I'm mistaken about any of this, please fire away.

don't be defensive! ...instead...

i thank you for in depth post, as it led me to 20+ minutes of interneting about powerline networking. i have thought about the subject a little bit, but not much as 802.11/n has served my needs very well.


thanks for sparking my research!

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stevech

So I'm not a fan of broadband on inside-the-home power line. More problematic than 2.4 or 5.8GHz WiFi, though WiFi has the issue of overcrowding.

Thanks for the info. My results don't look promising for ethernet over powerline. I hope that I have more success with ethernet over coax- there should be much less interference on a coax line. However I wonder about the security - would your neighbours be able to pick up your signal if they put an adapter on their cable line?

As an aside - I wonder why ethernet over phoneline died out several years ago? Was it because it didn't have the potential to go any faster than 10 Mbps? I used to use this prior to having my house wired up and it worked pretty well - I still have a Linksys HPNA router and a couple of PCI adapter cards.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by wayner

As an aside - I wonder why ethernet over phoneline died out several years ago? Was it because it didn't have the potential to go any faster than 10 Mbps? .

that is precisely why.

traditional phone line is not twisted pair, and higher speed ethernet needs it.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by wayner

However I wonder about the security - would your neighbours be able to pick up your signal if they put an adapter on their cable line?.

I think the signal won't cross the tap; I actually had an amplifier on one line, and the NIM-100 wouldn't make a connection. Once I made sure all of the lines were downstream of the amp, it worked fine.

[rdb4133]

Originally Posted by wayner

Take 2: I bought a pair of D-Link powerline over ethernet that are supposed to give a 200 Mbps bitrate. Connected to the same AC outlet I get 30 Mbps but in a more practical setup attached to outlets where I would actually be using them I get about 9-12 Mbps which is not quite good enough. I will be returning these as I just bought the NIM-100s - I found a place on eBay that is selling them 3 at a time for $88. I will report back once these arrive - I hope they work since they will be harder to return.

I'm curious to see how the NIM-100 worked for you. I'm moving to a new place soon and I'm not too sure if I want to take on the task of running cat 5e cabling for all of the bedrooms and living room.

I will be using an HD-PVR & HDHomeRun so I will be streaming HD video to my HD200

I also found that same auction (or similar) auction selling 3 of them for $88. I'm tempted to buy it!