HD200 - No LATM HE-AAC sound ?

[alland]

I had hoped this HD100 issue might be solved in the new box but still getting no sound and picture freezing on NZ Freeview HD (DVB-T) channels which use LATM HE-AAC sound. Is this on the development list ?

Also noticed intermittent stutter problem on non HE-AAC channels when surfing between channels.

[JREkiwi]

Originally Posted by alland

Is this on the development list ?

I've been told that they are making progress on this.

The picture freezing is also due to the audio not being decoded, as the video has nothing to sync to.

John

[voidpt]

Originally Posted by JREkiwi

I've been told that they are making progress on this.

Do you know if they are still working on this? I just tried a Norwegian DVB-T TS recording from DVBViewer through HD200 in offline-mode. SageTV indicates the format like this in 'Details':
MPEG2-TS[H.264 576i, AAC-HE/7Kbps@24hHz Stereo nor]

No sound, but video plays fine. Well, it takes a while for the video to start. Might be something about the sync to audio you mention. But it does recognise the HE-AAC. Maybe it still is that LATM stuff making problems.

I'm working on getting my folks to use a HD200 in offline-mode. Would be perfect. Except, viewing the recordings without sound is not an easy sell

I'll probably install the SageTV Server and record a 1min sample and upload it to SageTV. Can't hurt having more people asking for support.

[JREkiwi]

Have you tried the latest beta firmware for the HD200, which includes

1. Updated chipset driver
2. Updated playback engine (various file compatibility fix)

John

[voidpt]

Yup. I did this test with the 20090128 0 (beta) firmware.

Only thing I have not tested is doing the recording through SageTV. Making SageTV itself create the file through the DVB-T tuner. The recording i tested was taken through DVBViewer. Will test this weekend. If still no sound on HD200 I will send in a sample to SageTV.

[voidpt]

Have done a test with SageTV through a DVB-T tuner. Still same problem. Can get everything to work on PC client (with PowerDVD 8.0 + MONOGRAM AAC Decoder). On the HD200 the video is shown, 'stutters' some, no audio.

Made two 1min recordings. One through SageTV (.mpg). One through DVBViewer (.ts). Have sent them and reported this as a bug to SageTV. Will report any progress in this thread.

One note. When I put these two samples in a video import directory in SageTV I got the following data on them:
.ts: MPEG2-TS[H.264 576i, AAC-HE/7kbps@24kHz Stereo nor]
.mpg: MPEG2-PS[H.264 576i, AAC/8Kbps@24kHz Stereo nor]
So the TS is identified as AAC-HE compared to only AAC on the MPG. Not really sure if it signifies anything.

[voidpt]

Got a reply from support. They are still looking at it. Asked me to test again next time a beta firmware arrives. Because it might have a fix that covers this area. Got 2382 dialed in on my remote, will test as fast as a new beta is discovered

[Brent]

I sent support a test file (LATM AAC) and they told me they figured it out and it should be handled with the next firmware update.

[alland]

Just tried the latest Extender beta. It
didn't work with some files I had recorded previously. It may be that they have not been recorded properly and I need the server fix that is mentioned in the release notes.

[voidpt]

Have just gone through a few TS files I have with the latest 20090209 0 beta firmware. Mostly good news, except one anoying feature/bug.

As the release notes says:

2. Partial fix for some types of AAC audio (standalone mode only until server update)

So I have only tested this in stand-alone mode. No need to bother with SageTV Server yet. The result is that my TS captures from DVBViewer with H.264 SD + HE-AAC works now. Audio is there, video is smooth, no sync problems at all. I can skip like crazy around in video, and it works.

The problem, for now, is that it takes too long from pressing 'Play' on a file until it actually starts to play. Looks like HD200 is doing some heavy thinking. In the samples I had it looked like this:
- TS 25MB -> 25sec delay
- TS 487MB -> 76sec delay
- TS 13MB -> 33sec delay
Is was consistent too. The 25MB always had the 25sec delay. But again, when first it started to play. It worked like it should. No problems.

The test recording I did through SageTV Server (MPEG-PS) did still not work. Probably have more to do with the fact that SageTV has not generated the MPEG-PS file correctly. HD200 still identifies audio in file as AAC and not HE-AAC. Might be the same you are experiencing Alland.

But all in all. Looking very promising It is certainly progress. I have reported all these findinds to SageTV. So we'll see if they get back with any more info.

[Brent]

Excellent news. I know they've been working on the problems you've been experiencing with the LATM AAC

[voidpt]

Originally Posted by voidpt

The problem, for now, is that it takes too long from pressing 'Play' on a file until it actually starts to play. Looks like HD200 is doing some heavy thinking. In the samples I had it looked like this:
- TS 25MB -> 25sec delay
- TS 487MB -> 76sec delay
- TS 13MB -> 33sec delay
Is was consistent too. The 25MB always had the 25sec delay. But again, when first it started to play. It worked like it should. No problems.

Got some education from the SageTV guys. And been experimenting a little on the side. And now I have 2 solutions to this problem, if anyone experience it.

One. Use the HD200 box as intended in stand-alone mode (looking at you voidpt ). Well. It's not really my or SageTV fault. My TS files from DVBViewer are 'raw' stuff. And HD200 do handle them with latest firmware, just anoying with that delay. But if you do an import of the TS files, like you should do, SageTV will parse them and cache the result. That means they will play instantly after that, through the Video menu. If you always try to play them through the file system viewer, without import, the HD200 will parse them like new each time. So, good enough solution for me.

Two. I tried out every TS remux'er I had, and could find, to see if some of them could 'clean' up my TS samples (like VideoReDo do for MPEG2, still waiting on the H.264 edition). Some crash, don't recognise the audio, and so on. One did the job. TS Packet Editor (http://www.bitstreamtools.com/). Also makes it possible to trim/cut in TS files without re-encode. Good part is, it seems to fix and do a better job on the output TS than what was input. After all my 'problematic' TS files was run through this tool I ended up with new versions that HD200 played instantly, even from filesystem, without delay.

So my problems are solved for now in stand-alone mode Will test SageTV Server with live tuner when we get there.

[alland]

My WAF will soar if I can fix this problem Might even get permission for a few more extenders !

[oaamaas]

I live in Norway and am a cable TV customer. The cable network is quite old where I Live, so DVB-C is not an option. I must therefore resort to analogue cable. I recently bought FloppyDTVs (DVB-T) since there finally are some progress on the HE-ACC issue. I'm really looking forward to cancelling cable TV. Sadly, SageTV is not quite there yet.
I also bought a couple of HD200s before christmas. They are great clients for my WHS server. They also saved me from having to do a major HW upgrade on the PC client. Now, if only we can get the last issues resolved we'd finally have something to brag about in other Norwegian forums as well. There's nothing there but MediaPortal and Microsoft

I do not know if I contribute with anything new, but here's the current status with my setup:

• WHS is not officially supported for the FloppyDTVs (at least the FireDTV support tool says so). It does not seem to have any consequences though as everything works just fine. But I probably will not know before I use these tuners more regulary ...
• I am able to use the FireDTV Viewer and it's EPG and Recorder to manage recordings directly on the WHS. Recordings can be saved to a drive outside of the pool (the software seems unfit to have recordings put into the shares) and have the directory added as an import directory.
• There also is no problem to set up the FloppyDTV tuners in SageTV. Having SageTV record shows from the tuners also works fine. The resulting recordings is however another matter.

In order to sort out my thoughts I made two short recordings of the same show and then tried to play them back with the tools available. Here's how I experience it:

Recording made with FireDTV Recorder directly on the WHS server:

• File format "*.ts"
• SageTV says format is: "MPEG2-TS[H.264 544x576i, ACC-HE/7Kbps@24kHz Stereo nor]"
• Played using VLC Media Player 0.9.2 on PC:
  Video: OK Audio: OK
• Played using SageTV client HD200, SageTV Recordings:
  Not applicable
• Played using SageTV client HD200, import directory:
  Video: OK Audio: OK
• Played using HD200 standalone, import directory:
  Video: OK Audio: OK

Recording made with SageTV:

• File format "*.mpg"
• SageTV says format is: "MPEG2-PS[H.264 544x576i, ACC/7Kbps@24kHz Stereo]"
• Played using VLC Media Player 0.9.2 on PC:
  Video: OK Audio: None
• Played using SageTV client HD200, SageTV Recordings:
  Video: Stuttering Audio: None
• Played using SageTV client HD200, import directory:
  Video: Stuttering Audio: None
• Played using HD200 standalone, import directory:
  Video: Stuttering Audio: None

I notice, as did VOIDPT, the subtle changes in how SageTV "intrepret" the format of the recording. Anyway, using SageTV to record Norwegian DVB-T is completely useless for the time beeing.

I'd really appreciate if SageTV could resolve this issue. There is a workaround while I wait to use SageTV as server/client considered that I'm willing to ditch the last trace of "Live TV" and to only use import directories. There is some waiting time involved, and I'd certainly also miss the grouping and sorting abilities og the "SageTV Recordings" screen.

[Brent]

oaamaas,
Make sure you're running the latest firmware on the HD200. Can't tell if you're using the HD200 in extender mode or standalone, but if using in extender mode be sure SageTV on the server PC is running the latest beta also.

If still seeing those problems definitely submit a bug report - there's no way the issues will be fixed otherwise and you'll be surprised at how well the SageTV team works at fixing those sort of problems.

[oaamaas]

I'm using Extender beta version 20090225 0 and server beta 6.5.11. Nothing newer available for me right now. The HD200 is tried in both modes as described. Does actually not seem to make a difference.

I'm going to add a bug report.

[voidpt]

Originally Posted by voidpt

Will test SageTV Server with live tuner when we get there.

Originally Posted by oaamaas

I'm going to add a bug report.

Have not gotten around to testing this. I don't use DVB-T myself. Had though about it after the latest beta releases. I may get around testing it this week, but I need a DVB-T tuner that is located elsewhere. If/when I get the time I will report back. Really recommend the bug report, I may just end up with the same conclusion as you.

[oaamaas]

I've just reported a bug on this matter. Nice to see that I'm not the only Norwegian using SageTV

[voidpt]

Got hold of DVB-T tuner. Did a quick setup. All working ok on PC client (video & audio). Then tried through HD200 in extender mode. Gets same behaviour as you. Video plays, but it stutters every 1-2 seconds. No audio. Although I got a 'glitch/noice' sound once. Tried NRK1/NRK2/NRK3 channels. Same stuff.

Lets hope your bug report gets something going. Can't really complain though. We are getting closer and closer to full support. We'll get there in the end

BTW: This was all with the 6.5.11beta SageTV and HD200 with firmware beta 20090225 0.

[JREkiwi]

Sounds like you may be running into the MPEG-PS bug that Narflex said they had found and fixed for the next firmware.

You could set the card to record in TS rather than PS, as a temp workaround.

John