Placeshifter and client

[benjatelcom]

Will placeshifter produce results just as good as the client when on the local network with the server?

My wife's Macbook spends most of its time in the house, but she would like to use it on campus too. I would hate to buy placeshifter and client for mobility and quality, respectively.

It seems like placeshifter and client forks are destined to merge at some point, since they are the same cost, any thoughts on this? Placeshifter should just be a "mode" that the client runs in after determining the server is remote.

Obviously desktops only need the client, but in a household with four laptops its hard to decide (several are running 1920x1200 and a server full of 1080p content).

[GKusnick]

I have both installed on my laptop. They both have free trials, so my advice would be to download them both and give them a test drive before deciding.

[benjatelcom]

I guess I am hoping that Sage Placeshifter will operate in non-transcode mode while on the same subnet as the server?

A house full of placeshifting laptops will probably need more cpu resources then I can provide on the server side.

[motobarsteward]

Yes, when operated on your home network (and on the same subnet as your server) SageTV place shifter runs at full rate. The only real difference is that you can't play DVDs that have been backed up to the HDD on your sage server.

[perholm]

Hi there,

I'm trying to design a setup whereby I have a SageTV machine in Los Angeles, and then I can placeshift from Italy. At the same time, I also want to have local SageTV functionality in Italy.

It seems to me that to do that, in Italy I'd have to run Placeshifter and SageTV as two *separate* applications, meaning that if I want to watch US TV, I have to turn off SageTV and run Placeshifter, and if I want to watch Italian TV, I have to turn off Placeshifter and turn on SageTV.

But this seems absolutely idiotic, and there has to be a better way. I can't be the first person who both wants to placeshift content as well as watch local content, whether that content comes from a local TV Tuner card or from the local hard drive.

Is it really necessary to GIVE UP SageTV in order to use PlaceShifter? Or GIVE UP Placeshifter to use SageTV?

I can find a zillion reasons to do both at the same time.

Thanks,

Per

[GKusnick]

I don't know what you mean by "turn off" or "give up" one function in order to do the other. SageTV and Placeshifter can comfortably coexist on the same machine, and can run simultaneously on the same desktop. When you start Placeshifter it gives you a choice of which server to connect to, or you can create desktop shortcuts to automatically connect to the server of your choice. So I'm not sure what sort of conflict you're running into, or think you're going to run into.

If you're saying you want to switch from local content to remote content from within the same instance of the UI, without quitting and restarting Placeshifter, then no, there isn't a way to do that. The server connection is established when Placeshifter starts; there's no provision for changing horses in mid-stream.

[perholm]

Hi,

I have no idea how this got posted in this thread, and I'm sorry for hijacking it.

But where do you submit feature requests? It is an OBVIOUS thing to do that you want to both watch remote content and local content. Certainly, you seem comfortable living with that limitation, but it's a kick in the teeth for any two-location setup.

I guess the solution will be to run Placeshifter and SageTV at the same time, and then do application switching, which I'm sure will be obnoxious, and I'm sure I'll have to skip past tray application and background processes as well in order to just switch between Placeshifter and SageTV.

I really do think this isn't completely well though through.

But OK.

Sorry for accidentally posting in this thread.

Best,

Per

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by perholm

But where do you submit feature requests? It is an OBVIOUS thing to do that you want to both watch remote content and local content. Certainly, you seem comfortable living with that limitation, but it's a kick in the teeth for any two-location setup.

Um, not to be rude but you're probably one of a VERY small handfull that would need that functionality. So I'm not sure why Sage would spend valuable time and resources on develping a feature that hardly anyone would actually use. Besides I would think it could invite a lot of copyright problems in that unless both computers are yours placeshifting someone elses content isn't technically legal.

I guess the solution will be to run Placeshifter and SageTV at the same time, and then do application switching, which I'm sure will be obnoxious, and I'm sure I'll have to skip past tray application and background processes as well in order to just switch between Placeshifter and SageTV.

Should just need to minimize Sage and maximize placeshifter, or the other way around, not sure what's hugely horrible about that. With SageMC or another add-on you could probably automate it into a command on the menu system, just like people do for BD playback and other non-sage software.

GKusnick was suggesting that you don't run the standard SageTV interface on the local machine but instead use placeshifter to connect to both the remote computer and the SageTV program on the computer you're currently on. I've never tried that but essentially you'd just run the SageTV service on both computers and use placeshifter for all viewing. Only difference is you'd have to shut down and restart placeshifter to connect to a different computer.

I really do think this isn't completely well though through.

But OK.

Again, not sure why you think something that would require you to have two residences in two countries would be common enough that lots of people would be clammoring for this feature, but to each their own.

You could look at setting up a VPN (Virtual Private Network) such that the two Sage servers would think they were on the same LAN and then you could treat the other Sage server as a network encoder and NAS. Not sure how well that will work with the network latency that must exist between LA and Italy but that's the only other option I could see working.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Um, not to be rude but you're probably one of a VERY small handfull that would need that functionality. So I'm not sure why Sage would spend valuable time and resources on develping a feature that hardly anyone would actually use. Besides I would think it could invite a lot of copyright problems in that unless both computers are yours placeshifting someone elses content isn't technically legal.

I humbly disagree with the first two sentences but agree with the last. I think it would be great to be able to somehow "connect to" multiple Sage servers in different locations. This could end up being some type of "distributed tuner" system that would allow you to see shows broadcast in all different markets. Lots of possibilities: US soccer fans could see some "real" soccer broadcast on Italian TV, European "US Football" fans could watch the Cowboys play, etc.

Now the legal issues are another matter altogether.

[The Truth]

Originally Posted by Djc208

Um, not to be rude but you're probably one of a VERY small handfull that would need that functionality. So I'm not sure why Sage would spend valuable time and resources on develping a feature that hardly anyone would actually use. Besides I would think it could invite a lot of copyright problems in that unless both computers are yours placeshifting someone elses content isn't technically legal.



Should just need to minimize Sage and maximize placeshifter, or the other way around, not sure what's hugely horrible about that. With SageMC or another add-on you could probably automate it into a command on the menu system, just like people do for BD playback and other non-sage software.

GKusnick was suggesting that you don't run the standard SageTV interface on the local machine but instead use placeshifter to connect to both the remote computer and the SageTV program on the computer you're currently on. I've never tried that but essentially you'd just run the SageTV service on both computers and use placeshifter for all viewing. Only difference is you'd have to shut down and restart placeshifter to connect to a different computer.


Again, not sure why you think something that would require you to have two residences in two countries would be common enough that lots of people would be clammoring for this feature, but to each their own.

You could look at setting up a VPN (Virtual Private Network) such that the two Sage servers would think they were on the same LAN and then you could treat the other Sage server as a network encoder and NAS. Not sure how well that will work with the network latency that must exist between LA and Italy but that's the only other option I could see working.

Some people like to run this on a TV and then minimizing things and opening other programs becomes a huge hassel... and anyother person in the home would be discouraged to use the software...if you have an interface that you have the choice for both...it is more user friendly.... seems like that makes sense to me...



i just wish i could use sageclient and access either my placeshifter license or my client license... and that placeshifter could then have everything sage client has....

that would be AMAZING!!!!!!!!

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by benjatelcom

Will placeshifter produce results just as good as the client when on the local network with the server?

As noted, Placeshifter doesn't transcode if it detects it's on the same subnet. As for quality, that's a trickier question. Client gives you more options for which decoders you use, and could give better quality (deinterlacing, etc) depending on configuration.

It seems like placeshifter and client forks are destined to merge at some point, since they are the same cost, any thoughts on this?

It's hard to say, there's a lot of overlap, but there's some unique features too. Client is really just a "backend-less" version of SageTV Media Center, while Placeshifter is really a different app. I expect both to be around for a long time.

Originally Posted by perholm

Hi there,

I'm trying to design a setup whereby I have a SageTV machine in Los Angeles, and then I can placeshift from Italy. At the same time, I also want to have local SageTV functionality in Italy.

It seems to me that to do that, in Italy I'd have to run Placeshifter and SageTV as two *separate* applications, meaning that if I want to watch US TV, I have to turn off SageTV and run Placeshifter, and if I want to watch Italian TV, I have to turn off Placeshifter and turn on SageTV.

Yes, you would need both installed. You could though use placeshifter for everything, just connect to IT or US servers depending on what you want to watch (not that that really helps or anything).

But this seems absolutely idiotic, and there has to be a better way. I can't be the first person who both wants to placeshift content as well as watch local content, whether that content comes from a local TV Tuner card or from the local hard drive.

Not the first probably, but I haven't seen many asking for the ability to placeshift from one server on another.

Is it really necessary to GIVE UP SageTV in order to use PlaceShifter? Or GIVE UP Placeshifter to use SageTV?

I'm not sure what you mean by "give up".

What you're asking for is most commonly desired within a more local area, ie "Peer" SageTV servers. Sage's answer for that is network encoders, and encoding servers. There you have one master server and it commands a slave machine to start/stop recordings. But this probably won't work for you since there's no placeshift/transcoding functionality with that, so you'll need a "full bandwidth" connection between servers.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I humbly disagree with the first two sentences but agree with the last. I think it would be great to be able to somehow "connect to" multiple Sage servers in different locations. This could end up being some type of "distributed tuner" system that would allow you to see shows broadcast in all different markets. Lots of possibilities: US soccer fans could see some "real" soccer broadcast on Italian TV, European "US Football" fans could watch the Cowboys play, etc.

The real problem with that is rather technical though. Let's start with client, as near as I can figure, Client copies/cashes the SageTV database from the server and then keeps sync going in the background. The logic to cache two or more remote databases simultaneously, merge them, and allow access to both would be quite difficult.

It's even harder with Placeshifter. Placeshifter executes all it's logic on the remote server, and only renders the UI/Video locally. This means that the two servers would have to know about each other, and be able to manage the combined database, plus know where each is (network wise) in relation to the Placeshifter, so as to know if it needs transcoding.

Managing two databases simultaneously in a client is just a massive undertaking. It would probably be slightly easier to have servers be able to "share" but even then that gets complicated very quick. Figuring out when to transcode and when not to, how to handle features that don't work over placeshift connections (DVDs), it goes on.

Originally Posted by The Truth

Some people like to run this on a TV and then minimizing things and opening other programs becomes a huge hassel... and anyother person in the home would be discouraged to use the software...if you have an interface that you have the choice for both...it is more user friendly.... seems like that makes sense to me...

You should be able to make use of Nielm's dynamic menus to create a menu item that swaps over to the "other Sage", like "Go To Italy" on the placeshifter version, and "Go To LA" on the local IT version. That would make it relatively seamless.