HD100 Just died

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

If its already started and probably guaranteed to eventually fail it can get worse if you wait. Due to the type of failure it can cause other components to fail as well. Waiting can only make things worse once the failure begins.

It hasn't started yet (AFAIK.. I haven't opened it to look at the caps). I'm just paranoid.

Drew

[merneric]

I'm not going to claim any sort of special expertise, but I can say that soldering the 2-3 caps on this board is very very straight forward compared to some of the other soldering jobs that I have done to "modify" other equipment. In fact, it dosn't get much easier than this, as most of the components are pretty big, no tiny surface mount stuff to deal with, and they are spaced fairly well apart from one another, so that accidently contacting an adjacent component would be pretty difficult. If there is that much interest, perhaps I can check back at radioshack to get the "proper" components, and then post some pictures of exactly how it is done...

As for being preemptive, and fixing before there is a problem, while I suppose it is true that something could theoretically get worse, I sincerely doubt it, as the fault seems to be mainly the power supply module, and as it gradually goes out, the unit just shuts down. Again, I am no expert in electronics, but I think as the caps fail, the unit gets less power, which should not really damage anything on the main board, rather than getting a surge in power, which obviously could. Just my speculation though.

Like I said, I have two other HD-100's, and I am not planning to change out caps unless/until they show signs of failure. Specifically, if I start hearing a high pitched whine again, then that would be a positive trigger to fix, even if it is still working at that time.

Finally, as for the wall-wart idea, I did not pursue that option, but it looks like one would still have to do some soldering to make it work--unless one were to build some custom cables between the plug-in for the wall unit and the main board, but it would seem that even that effort would take at least some soldering.

[Clift]

Originally Posted by drewg

I have a Feb 2008 HD100. It is not dead yet, but I'd like to be prepared with parts on hand so that if/when it does die, I can get it back up and running quickly. However, I'm purely a software guy (*nix network drivers), and I haven't touched a soldering iron since some boy scout merit badge when I was 12 or so. So I would not trust myself to solder in new caps.

Has anybody done a solderless fix (preferably converted to wall-wart) who has a parts list they could share? I've been looking over some of the electronics web sites, and I have no idea what parts I'd need to order to convert the thing to a wall wart. It is all greek to me..

Thanks,

Drew

Seems like going for an external power supply may do the trick for you. Try the directions on this post and see if you like that idea a little better:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...54&postcount=7

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by merneric

As for being preemptive, and fixing before there is a problem, while I suppose it is true that something could theoretically get worse, I sincerely doubt it, as the fault seems to be mainly the power supply module, and as it gradually goes out, the unit just shuts down. Again, I am no expert in electronics, but I think as the caps fail, the unit gets less power, which should not really damage anything on the main board, rather than getting a surge in power, which obviously could. Just my speculation though.

The failure mode can vary but worst case is that they capacitor's plates short causing the AC current to go where its not supposed to. Someone else mentioned that the diodes in the PS's bridge rectifier were shorted as well. Damage like this in the power supply can lead to damage to the actual mainboard.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Clift

Seems like going for an external power supply may do the trick for you. Try the directions on this post and see if you like that idea a little better:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...54&postcount=7

Awesome. I don't know how I missed that thread. I have the dlink wall-wart in my hand right now (from a powered USB hub that no longer needs to be powered). So all I need is the DC jack from radio shack.

Drew

[doc]

Originally Posted by drewg

Awesome. I don't know how I missed that thread. I have the dlink wall-wart in my hand right now (from a powered USB hub that no longer needs to be powered). So all I need is the DC jack from radio shack.

Thats handy to know.

I just found the DUB-H7 8 port usb hub on Amazon in the UK for £17.57 (with the 5V 3A PSU)

The 4 port usb hub is cheaper but the PSU is only 2.5A. I'd play safe and pay the few extra pounds.

Strange to think you can get the hub and psu cheaper than buying the psu on its own!

[drewg]

Originally Posted by doc

Thats handy to know.

I just found the DUB-H7 8 port usb hub on Amazon in the UK for £17.57 (with the 5V 3A PSU)

That's the hub that I have!

Drew

[heffe2001]

What were the symptoms on the HD100's before the failure? I've got 2 of them currently, but as far as I know they are both fine (one is from the initial batch, one is from the 2nd batch that Sage sold). I may go ahead and replace the caps, as I most likely have them on-hand (I re-cap arcade monitors fairly regularly, so it shouldn't be any more difficult than one of those, easier most likley, no worrying about tube-voltage ).

[drewg]

Originally Posted by heffe2001

What were the symptoms on the HD100's before the failure?

Some people have reported a high-pitched whining sound, others have reported no warnings at all before failure. The failure mode is apparently a blinking power light.

Drew

[heffe2001]

Don't think I've seen either of those, but will check when I get home... If it were a singing cap, I'd definitely have noticed it (everybody tells me I have Dog Ears, I hear stuff nobody else does, lol).

[jensen18]

Add me to the list of owners of a dead HD100. The wife was watching a movie today and called me at work to inform me that it just went black and the red power light started blinking . Calling support on Tuesday to get it RMA'd.

For those compiling stats:
Purchased 08/2008
No whining or warning prior to death

[mayamaniac]

My original first HD100 just died also, the red blinking light symptom. I purchased it when it first became available. The second HD200 I bought about a year later is still working, but I predict it will die in a year also.

So to recap, how do we know its a power supply problem or a bulging cap problem? I guess opening it and looking for bulging caps would do it, but I'm wondering if there are other signs? Anyone got a list of parts from radio shack yet?

I'm not sure how much SageTV is saving going with these cheap parts. I mean the original HD100 cost $199, I would've prefer to pay $10 more and have better parts inside so the unit doen't die in less than 2 years. As a business practice, I think it is a mistake to go with cheap parts that fail too easily. Not only does it make customers unhappy, but it also gives the company a bad name.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

The second HD200 I bought about a year later is still working, but I predict it will die in a year also.

Did you mean HD100 there? The HD200 probably won't have this problem, as it uses an external power supply. But, if it does have a similar problem, it will be really easy to fix.

So to recap, how do we know its a power supply problem or a bulging cap problem? I guess opening it and looking for bulging caps would do it, but I'm wondering if there are other signs?

Just to be clear, they're one in the same. I think people have only found bulging capacitors on the power supply board. I'm pretty sure everyone that has looked has seen bulging caps.

I'm not sure how much SageTV is saving going with these cheap parts. I mean the original HD100 cost $199, I would've prefer to pay $10 more and have better parts inside so the unit doen't die in less than 2 years. As a business practice, I think it is a mistake to go with cheap parts that fail too easily. Not only does it make customers unhappy, but it also gives the company a bad name.

I agree the HD100 manufacturer probably used a batch or two of bad capacitors, and I hope we hear more directly from Sage on this issue at some point. But, I don't think Sage made any decision that directly led to the bad capacitors issue. I'm sure they just went to some company and had them design and build the HD100, basically assuming they'd do a good job selecting parts and assembly it.

By the way, Brent might have an opportunity to interview Jeff, SageTV's CTO. Brent is asking people for suggested questions, and I've been lobbying him to press Sage pretty hard to answer a question on HD100 reliability. If you want Brent to ask about that too head over to this thread and say so.

[mayamaniac]

Yeah, I meant the HD100, not 200.

I just opened HD100 up, I see two bulging capacitors. I think I'll go to radioshack and get the replacement parts and try to solder it myself. I'll take some pictures of the process. Anyone want to tell me the part numbers or the type of capacitor I need at radioshack?

[Steve]

There is a nice how to article over at CocoonTech.com. It has some good pictures and reference to the parts you need. You can find it here.

[mayamaniac]

I just bought three capacitors from radioshack, part no. 272-1032. Was trying to soldered it and the tip of my coldheat solder iron broke. Will have to wait for another day to get another tip.

[Erich in AZ]

Mine from the 05/08 batch died as well. Blinking power light.

Died a couple of days before the warranty was up, and I tried a few things, but to no avail.

Sage did say to send it back and gave me an RMA number

[DualQuad]

The most used HD100 in the household just experienced the blinking red LED. I cracked open the case and discovered like everyone else some busted caps on the power supply. All HD100s in the house are from the first batch ever sold, so far this is the only one to give up the ghost.

DQ

[pjpjpjpj]

Without scanning this entire thread and with no electronics knowledge... is it possible to know whether this failure is:

1) Caused by long-term continuous use (unit "on" for a long time at once),

2) Caused by long-term overall use (total hours "on"), or

3) Not necessarily either of these, it just might, or might not, happen at some point?

I ask because, compared to many here, I think my household usage is considerably less, plus we turn it off (not the power switch, just the remote button) every single time. I'm wondering where I might be on the life expectancy timeline towards the dreaded blinking power light.

[Steve]

pjpjpjpj,

While nobody can say for certain, chances are you will have the problem at some point.

Usage has nothing to do with it. First of all, the power supply board is energized all the time while the back power switch is on, regardless of whether the unit is in standby mode (front button). So, the power supply is essentially on 24/7.

So, your chances depend on whether or not your power supply board was made with defective capacitors. The problem is that several manufacturers used a stolen 'recipe' for making the electrolyte used inside the cap. It was missing a stabilizing compound and hence the formula used produces hydrogen gas which builds up inside the cap and eventually bulges it and sometimes bursts it. If your power supply was made with these caps, then it would be reasonable for you to expect the board to break at some point.

It is time based, because it takes time for the hydrogen to build up enough to cause the damage. Since nobody knows exactly what components the manufacturer used, its impossible to know any more.

The bad capacitor issue is nothing new, in fact its been known for 10 years and it really surprises me that it continues to be an issue. Certain manufacturers must be using old inventory or something.

I personally think the manufacturer needs to take responsibility and give Sage free replacement boards, which Sage should in turn pass on to their customers. There are several companies that have had power supply problems, the most recent being Silicon Dust with their HDHR. But as good customer service, they simply replace the power supply at no charge. Granted, the powers supplies on the HD100 are internal, but Sage should still provide them to customers with defective power supplies at no charge imho.

While I admit 100% the problem was in no caused by Sage, it is still their company and their reputation being harmed. Look in history at companies that try to sweep a problem under the rug and what happened to them vs companies that step up to the plate to do the right thing, even when its not their fault. Since it is their name on the hardware and they contracted with the mfg, they should be going after them to do the right thing as well.

Anyway, if you look at the tutorial linked a few posts up there are other links in there that talk more about the bad cap issue.

Bottom line, just keep an eye on it but don't be surprised if it gives up the ghost one day - assuming it was made with a bad batch of caps.