HD200 - A nice small box, but

[TorontoSage]

I am new to SageTV and love it and the HD200. But, I find that the size of the HD200 means that you have to use it in a manner which seems to run counter to my view (and hopefully others' too) of what the physical arrangement of distributed video should be. And that is, I think, to have all of the visible hardware in one location and only the displays and tiny IR receivers local to the viewer.

I find the HD200's form-factor and design clutters up the viewing experience when used with flat panel displays. With other distributed video technology, such as using a central matrix switch with only IR receivers and wallplate baluns (or small dongle type baluns) local to the viewer, you can place the display right against the wall or out on a stand and all you see is a tiny IR receiver 'eye' which you can locate in a wall or cabinet door or stick to the side of the display. With the HD200 you have this box that is difficult to hide unless you have a cabinet, but then you still have to see the whole box, when it is really only necessary to see the IR receiver eye.

Now I realize that the main reason it is the size it is, which is much smaller than the HD100 that predeceded it, is because of the functionality inside the box. But, that would not have precluded it from having been designed in a manner that would have provided much more flexibility regarding the placement of the unit. They could have simply provided an IR jack and separate IR receiver and cable like the Hauppage HD PVR and this would have added very little additional cost. Or, they could have provided an IR jack in addition to the IR receiver located on the unit and could have sold an IR receiver cable for an additional cost. Then one could have taped or velcro'd the HD200 to the back of the TV or to the wall and taped or velcro'd the IR receiver to the TV. This would have also provide the added benefit of not having to see those annoying extremely bright red and blinking green lights on the unit (which, I know, you can just put electrical tape over).

Anyway, then you'd have a nice clean install without clutter and just a small IR receiver placed in a cabinet or attached to the TV.

I don't know whether the box can be modified now to allow this (likely it can if you know what you are doing). Certainly a separate IR receiver and flasher unit could be used with the HD200 so that one could hide it. But then this adds at least $100 to the cost and it could have been easily been avoided by having provided an IR jack and cable.

No offence, as I think the engineers did a great job designing the internals of this unit, but it seems that the exterior of this box was designed by the same engineers without regard to design aesthetics and usability. Witness the overly bright blinking green light that really doesn't not serve much purpose as the screen will indicate whether you are connected and, as such, could have been located on the back of the unit, and the also overly bright red power indicator light.

Thank God they chose black as the colour though!

[stanger89]

I see your point, but the HD200, like the HD100 and MVP, is a Set Top Box, not a video distribution system. It's purpose is to be local to the display and "pull" video from the SageTV server to that display. It works just like a cable STB, DVD Player, or any of the other various networked media players out there.

Odds are if you really do plan on having all your equpment hidden, you've got something other than the HD200 in the area (AVR, DVD Player, STB, etc) that also have the same problem.

[PLUCKYHD]

You can do what you are doing by hiding it and ir extenders (extra)

I don't know anything that does this by default

PLus the hd200 can be controled via ip.

[Brent]

It would be nice to have an IR port for an IR extender. But I have no problem with its form really.

Ideally I'd like to see the next version of the HD200 have the following:

• optional optical drive - preferablly Blu-ray
• IR extender port
• less obtrusive blinking light
• HDMI 1.3 (this is pretty minor for me, but...
• WiFi -I wouldn't use it but it would help sell more of them

Functionality wise the HD200 is an awesome box. I now own two and love them.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I see your point, but the HD200, like the HD100 and MVP, is a Set Top Box, not a video distribution system. It's purpose is to be local to the display and "pull" video from the SageTV server to that display. It works just like a cable STB, DVD Player, or any of the other various networked media players out there.

Well its main purpose is to distribute video from a central repository, so it is a video distribution system, albeit with some added local intelligence that is not provided by a HDMI/component video balun and IR receiver which would be local to a matrix switch type distribution system. Actually what I like about the HD200 is that it is a HDMI/component video balun coupled with an IR receiver and flasher, yet it costs no more than those two items and provides more functionality.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Odds are if you really do plan on having all your equpment hidden, you've got something other than the HD200 in the area (AVR, DVD Player, STB, etc) that also have the same problem.

For most of us there is no other equipment to hide. No STB as the HD200 replaces this. DVD's are typically ripped or can be placed in a DVD player, so that's not there. No need for an AVR except in the home theatre (it is unusual for people to set up surround sound home theatres in every room in their home). Also, an IR receiver and flasher allows the electronic clutter to be hidden in the home theatre. So they are all taken care of and it leaves only the HD200 as the problem.

[DRB]

Thank God they chose black as the colour though!

Being black does a nice job of hidding the electrial tape over the red and green lights.

DRB

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

You can do what you are doing by hiding it and ir extenders (extra)

Yes, as I mentioned in my post, but i was trying to avoid increasing the cost of the box by $100 when the technology for it is already built into the box, but in an inflexible internal format unlike the Hauppauge HD PVR which has an IR port.

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

PLus the hd200 can be controled via ip.

I did not know this. Can you elaborate? (I know the HD200 controls the server via IP, but I think you are talking about something different)

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by Brent

It would be nice to have an IR port for an IR extender. But I have no problem with its form really.

Ideally I'd like to see the next version of the HD200 have the following:

• optional optical drive - preferablly Blu-ray
• IR extender port
• less obtrusive blinking light
• HDMI 1.3 (this is pretty minor for me, but...
• WiFi -I wouldn't use it but it would help sell more of them

Functionality wise the HD200 is an awesome box. I now own two and love them.

I agree it's a fantastic box. Why would WiFi help you sell more of them? I'd like Wifi because then I could control the TV from the same iTouch/iPhone I can use for my Sonos Audio system and for other applications. The only problem is even the iTouch is multiples more expensive than a cheap remote (and I don't mind the one that comes with the HD200) and it's best to have one local to the TV. Also, one would have to have have a way for the Sonos to know which HD200 to talk to as the way the remote is typically used is by carrying it around in your pocket and whipping it out when you want to listen to or change the music. So, the Wifi remote would be talking to different HD200's depending on the room one is in.

[cncb]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

For most of us there is no other equipment to hide. No STB as the HD200 replaces this. DVD's are typically ripped or can be placed in a DVD player, so that's not there. No need for an AVR except in the home theatre (it is unusual for people to set up surround sound home theatres in every room in their home). Also, an IR receiver and flasher allows the electronic clutter to be hidden in the home theatre. So they are all taken care of and it leaves only the HD200 as the problem.

I agree that the front lights are too bright but otherwise I don't get your point. You have the same issue that you would have with your former STB and with the DVD player that you say that your DVDs will be placed in?? Why add any cost to the unit (IR extender plus port) for something that hardly anyone would use? Just get a cheap wireless IR extender if you really want it totally hidden.

[PLUCKYHD]

these work have used them a couple of times.

http://www.amazon.com/Next-Generatio...8005653&sr=8-1

[Brent]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I agree it's a fantastic box. Why would WiFi help you sell more of them?

Not help me sell them, help SageTV sell them
I think WiFi is an attractive feature to the casual Media Player crowd. Its always better to use wired ethernet with HD anything, but I think it would help in the reviews and help in the appeal to those wanting a stand-alone Media Player.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Brent

It would be nice to have an IR port for an IR extender. But I have no problem with its form really.

Ideally I'd like to see the next version of the HD200 have the following:

• optional optical drive - preferablly Blu-ray
• IR extender port
• less obtrusive blinking light
• HDMI 1.3 (this is pretty minor for me, but...
• WiFi -I wouldn't use it but it would help sell more of them

Functionality wise the HD200 is an awesome box. I now own two and love them.

Well if we're dreaming:

• RS232 port (to integrate with "traditional" automation systems like URC, etc) with feedback.
• Rackmount Form Factor
• High end video processor, ABT, Reon, Genum, etc

Originally Posted by Brent

Not help me sell them, help SageTV sell them
I think WiFi is an attractive feature to the casual Media Player crowd. Its always better to use wired ethernet with HD anything, but I think it would help in the reviews and help in the appeal to those wanting a stand-alone Media Player.

Yeah, the question comes up a lot ("Does it have N"), and it's kind of a tough sell that it doesn't because wireless sucks.

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Well its main purpose is to distribute video from a central repository, so it is a video distribution system, albeit with some added local intelligence that is not provided by a HDMI/component video balun and IR receiver which would be local to a matrix switch type distribution system.

I guess I just look at it differently. I look at is as a box people will plop on their TV (or next to it) like any other box they pick up.

Also, an IR receiver and flasher allows the electronic clutter to be hidden in the home theatre. So they are all taken care of and it leaves only the HD200 as the problem.

I don't follow, if you've got an IR flasher you could just use that on the HD200 too.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by DRB

Being black does a nice job of hidding the electrial tape over the red and green lights.

DRB

+1000

[Brent]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well if we're dreaming:

• RS232 port (to integrate with "traditional" automation systems like URC, etc) with feedback.
• Rackmount Form Factor
• High end video processor, ABT, Reon, Genum, etc

I'm always dreaming...

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by cncb

I agree that the front lights are too bright but otherwise I don't get your point. You have the same issue that you would have with your former STB and with the DVD player that you say that your DVDs will be placed in?? Why add any cost to the unit (IR extender plus port) for something that hardly anyone would use? Just get a cheap wireless IR extender if you really want it totally hidden.

I must not be explaining myself well. With other centralized distribution systems such as matrix switches, you place all of your source devices in a central location and then distribute the videos using cat5e/6 cable, just like with SageTV, and then you place IR receivers at each TV and video baluns (just like are designed into the SageTV HD200) behind them. But IR receivers (there are tons of 3rd party IR receivers available) are designed so all that you see is the tiny receiver 'eye' itself sitting on the TV or in a hole in the cabinet or wall. The power supply (if there is one) for the balun (which is the size of 1/2 pack of cards if it is external or is just a wallplate of it is a wallplate balun) and everything else is behind the TV.

So, no, there is no simliar issue as my former STB units as they were all centrally located just where they are now with SageTV, but connected to a matrix switch instead of a computer, as was the DVD player, etc.

As for cost, it's debatable if much, if any, cost would be added as all you are adding is a jack and making the IR receiver external on a cable.

I disagree that hardly anyone would use it. Coming from a space where you always have some box beside your TV maybe you think that, but for the majority of people not coming from that space (media players, beyond TV and the like), or the many used to other centralized distribution systems or those who never had cable boxes beside their tv for other reasons, they would rather not have a box beside their display.

And, why pay for another IR receiver when it's already in the box and merely has to be slightly reconfigured. I think with the trend to slimmer and less visable devices and slimmer displays and more contemporary homes, not having a box like this visible will become more important.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I don't follow, if you've got an IR flasher you could just use that on the HD200 too.

Well, as I mentioned, yes i could do that.

But, then I'd have to buy one for each HD200 which increases the cost by 50% per unit only to duplicate something that is already in the box but sits behind some metal instead of being on 3' of cheap wire, thereby preserving existing functionality and providing additional functionality, likely at none or very little extra cost.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

I must not be explaining myself well. With other centralized distribution systems such as matrix switches, you place all of your source devices in a central location and then distribute the videos using cat5e/6 cable,

I think it's really just an issue of perspective. I think most here view Sage and SageTV Extenders as STB replacments rather than Distribution System replacement. I can see both sides of that, and Sage's functionality definitely overlaps that of a distribution system.

...just like with SageTV, and then you place IR receivers at each TV and video baluns (just like are designed into the SageTV HD200) behind them.

Not sure why, but for some reason I've just got a really hard time thinking of a Sage extender as a glorified balun.

So, no, I don't the same issue as my former STB units. They were all centrally located just where they are now with SageTV, so was the DVD player, etc.

(Trying to figure out if you're just thinking out loud or not) So are you trying to rip out your distribution system and replace it with extenders? Why can you not just stick your extenders at the end of your distribution system and run it into the room just like you did before.

I disagree that hardly anyone would use it. Coming from a space where you always have some box beside your TV maybe you think that, but for the majority of people not coming from that space (media players, beyond TV and the like), or the many used to other centralized distribution systems or those who never had cable boxes beside their tv for other reasons, they would rather not have a box beside their display.

I'm not sure I buy that. Whole-house AV distribution systems just aren't that common, mostly because they're quite expensive. I'd guess most people getting an HD200 would be adding it to an existing configuration, with people replacing a STB/DVR a close second. I'd guess people replacing a a/v distribution system would be a distant last.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Well, as I mentioned, yes i could do that.

But, then I'd have to buy one for each HD200 which increases the cost by 50% per unit only to duplicate something that is already in the box but sits behind some metal instead of being on 3' of cheap wire, thereby preserving existing functionality and providing additional functionality, likely at none or very little extra cost.

Sorry, that comment was based on the premise (that it looked like you were making) that you already had the flasher for other components, but somehow it wouldn't work for the HD200.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Not sure why, but for some reason I've just got a really hard time thinking of a Sage extender as a glorified balun.

I was not trying to suggest such an analogy, but only that the form factor would allow a similar physical placement. The HD200 is way more than a glorified balun of course.

Originally Posted by stanger89

(Trying to figure out if you're just thinking out loud or not) So are you trying to rip out your distribution system and replace it with extenders? Why can you not just stick your extenders at the end of your distribution system and run it into the room just like you did before.

I am using a server and the HD200 extender right now (and soon will add 4 more). All I want is to be able to mount the HD200 out of sight, that's all, and was providing a possible improvement to the device that would me and others in the future to do so with a new improved unit, while preserving the 'stb replacement' type physical arrangement that others might like.

But, what reason is there to see the box? It provides no feedback really as you get that from the screen. The STB is a different animal. Even the small ones are more than double the size of the HD200 and STB PVR's are much larger. And, most important, the HD200 does not provide any of the feedback (beyond the power light) one gets with an STB, such as indicators like the time, whether you are recording or not, the channel number you are on, the signal resolution etc. And, the insignificance of HD200's lights, beyond maybe when you initially plug them in, is witnessed by the fact that many like to tape over them. So I don't understand why it wouldn't be preferable to just plug your cables in, make sure the lights flicker, and then just hide it out of sight.

So, what am I missing? Why does the HD200 have to sit their like an STB instead of being out of sight?

Originally Posted by stanger89

I'm not sure I buy that. Whole-house AV distribution systems just aren't that common, mostly because they're quite expensive. I'd guess most people getting an HD200 would be adding it to an existing configuration, with people replacing a STB/DVR a close second. I'd guess people replacing a a/v distribution system would be a distant last.

I priced both systems as I was going to expand the system I had previously (semi matrix distribution) until I heard about SageTV. The cost, from a standing start, was about the same with the variation occurring depending on how many HD PVR's one would want to have.

But yes, maybe the stronger point is that it's just a black box, literally as well as figuratively, that provides no feedback so there is no reason to see it.

[PLUCKYHD]

I don't know why you hook everyting else to a switch and use ir blasters to hide them but you don't do that with this?