Placeshifter and HD-PVR

[srothwell]

So is it even possible to use Placeshifter with the HD-PVR?

At this time, I'm only recording 480i stuff off an SD cable box with the HD-PVR and Placeshifter can't even touch it. Stuttering like you wouldn't believe.

Absolutely unwatchable.

Is this normal?

Placeshifter is starting to really irritate me. I also found out that Placeshifter doesn't work well when you set your files to record the Transport Stream instead of just Program Stream. I must use Transport Stream becuase the SageTV splitter doesn't like most of what Comcast sends QAM through my HDHRs and I get TONS of break-ups with Program Stream recordings.

However, when watching through Placeshifter, I can't skip at all... and it always starts at the beginning and won't remember where you left off.

[Skiier__Dude]

I think the answer really depends upon your upstream bandwidth. Mine is rated at 1Mbps (but usually is lower than that). I think you need 2+ Mbps for it to work properly.

I find that if you start playback and then pause it for a few minutes, Placeshifter will buffer the playback and it will play smoothly. However, I just can't find that happy medium to playback more than 5-7 mins without it reverting to skipping. From all the tests I've done, I believe that its a bandwidth issue more than anything else.

[srothwell]

This is over the LAN that's bad.

Of I do it over the internet its actually "normal" for placeshifter.

I just want to know why the LAN (which plays HD content from HDHR absolutely perfect) is having such a problem with 480i stuff from HDPVR.

[Skiier__Dude]

Ah -- didn't understand that sorry. I'd be looking at codecs and/or try another machine to try to figure out if it's a workstation issue. Placeshifter works great across the LAN for me -- I've run it on combination of W7, WinXP and Ubuntu Linux machines without issue -- but the Linux machine did require a bunch of tweaking to get it to playback without stutter.

I'd try an experiment with the Sage Client on the same machine if you can.

If you have an HD Media Extender, plug it into the same port as the machine you are attempting Placeshifter playback to see if it might possibly be a LAN performance issue.

[autoboy]

the h.264 decoder that SageTV uses can't handle interlaced content. You should set the output from the cable box to 480p instead of 480i.

[koan00]

Originally Posted by autoboy

the h.264 decoder that SageTV uses can't handle interlaced content. You should set the output from the cable box to 480p instead of 480i.

I dont believe this is true. I asked oficial support specifically about what was and wasnt supported and the said only H.264 1080i. In fact I believe many users on HD-PVRs have issues with forced 480p from motorola boxes, so 480p maybe unwise.

[Taddeusz]

Placeshifter plays back my 480i recording fine if I'm connecting in remote mode. If I play the same video locally through Placeshifter it skips. Whatever is different about the local network pipeline (versus connecting outside your network) is what seems to be the problem.

[koan00]

On local LAN you are playing back full stream (non-transcoded) 480i H.264. This means the bit rate is probably higher, it needs to be deinterlaced, and it requires more CPU to decode.

If you are having stuttering issues on the Local LAN, check your CPU and Network configuration. For reference, my testing LAN configuration is Phenom II X3 720 and 1Gb Ethernet. It does max out one core fully, but it seems to play fine.

Ideally on a local LAN, you should be using Sage Client. That way you can use your systems codecs instead of the bundled Mplayer for playback on the client.

[Brent]

I'm getting decent video with a HD-PVR file played back using placeshifter, but I get no audio. Do I need to load a codec or change a setting on the laptop that has placeshifter on it?

[Skiier__Dude]

Probably is a codec or laptop setting issue. I've run Placeshifter on XP, W7, Ubuntu and now a MacBook. Have had various degrees of success, but never any audio issues. Might want to try a different version of Placeshifter (eg. a Beta) or a different machine.

[SWKerr]

I have never got Placeshifter to work with HD-PVR files if the server is transcoding them. I can get watchable content on with h.264 files not from the HD-PVR but the recordings from Sage skip all over the place. The CPU on the server doesn't max out and I have tried it on [petty fast X4 and still no love. I don't think it will work.

If I recall correctly when you are on a local LAN connection it will play the file directly like the SageTV client using whatever codec is registered. You can override this in Placeshifter and force it to transcode the file anyway. I do this with my Dell Mini since is can't really do much with internal graphics.

[koan00]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm getting decent video with a HD-PVR file played back using placeshifter, but I get no audio. Do I need to load a codec or change a setting on the laptop that has placeshifter on it?

Are you on the local lan, or playing remotely? if i.t's lan, then it probably is a codec issue

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by koan00

I dont believe this is true. I asked oficial support specifically about what was and wasnt supported and the said only H.264 1080i. In fact I believe many users on HD-PVRs have issues with forced 480p from motorola boxes, so 480p maybe unwise.

Is there a way for HD-PVR to record in 720p as opposed to 1080i or 1080p if the originating program is broadcast in 1080? For some reason I remember someone saying that 720p h.264 files play fine on Placeshifter.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Is there a way for HD-PVR to record in 720p as opposed to 1080i or 1080p if the originating program is broadcast in 1080? For some reason I remember someone saying that 720p h.264 files play fine on Placeshifter.

Yes, you need to set the STB that your HDPVR records from to only output 720p. The HDPVR will record whatever it gets. It does no rescaling itself.

[Skirge01]

I recently began considering getting a license for Placeshifter for use while traveling, but this thread has me confused. I record content via my 2 HDHRs and 2 HDPVRs. The HDPVRs record from DirecTV, which is outputting at 1080i. According to what's been said in this thread, my setup precludes me from using Placeshifter, correct?

If I change the output on my DirecTV boxes to 720p, then I could use it, but I have no intentions of doing so and this would also make those existing recordings useless via Placeshifter.

I just want to make sure I understand the situation... which, if true, really makes no sense to me.

Assuming I'm correct, is there any other option out there which works well with SageTV? I have the web interface set up, but I know streaming is pretty much broken there.

[Skiier__Dude]

You could archive and/or re-encode a group of shows you want to watch while on the road and stream those to the Placeshifter client.

It looks like your server is pretty beefy. You may find that it has the HP to transcode and stream your content just fine. Best way is to try and see what happens. For me, I've never been able to get Placeshifter to stream HD content to the client outside my LAN. SD content works fine, and content within the LAN also works fine. I've found it to be a combination of upstream bandwidth and CPU.

[darcilicious]

It might be worth noting that for v7, SageTV is working on the built-in transcoder.

I've recently discovered, for example, that using the AppleTV Widescreen profile on 1080i HD-PVR recordings results in a Quicktime compatible video but SageTV itself doesn't play it properly (audio appears fine, but video is completely black).

[Skirge01]

I gave it a shot and tried to stream over the LAN. Results?

1080i MPEG2-TS/H.264 (HDHR) recording: Streams no problem using Dynamic Streaming (looks like full quality)
1080i MPEG2-PS (HD-PVR) recording: Stutters horribly even at 300kbps/352x240

So, it would definitely appear that there's an issue streaming HD-PVR recordings with Placeshifter. That's a shame because I was ready to purchase if it worked.

[Spectrum]

I've done quite a few tests with Placeshifter and HDPVR content and I can't get reliable playback via Placeshifter for any interlaced content encoded by the HDPVR. It's not a bandwidth issue - Gbit, it's not a horsepower issue - server never breaks a sweat, it's not purely an interlacing issue - I encoded some files to 480i and 1080i using the x264 encoder and I didn't have any problems until I got the bitrate up to over 20Mbps.

I can't back it up, but I think something in the Placeshifter decoding chain doesn't like the field order for HDPVR interlaced content. That was the one thing I couldn't test using the x264 encoder and I haven't looked into using anything else to try to duplicate HDVRP encoding.

I could be way off base though

[Skirge01]

I did some remote (WAN) testing today and, once again, 1080i recorded by my HDHR played back at "HIGH" quality without any issues at all. I was actually surprised how well it streamed over my measly 2Mb Cablevision connection. But, the 1080i from the HD-PVR still stutters like crazy. There definitely seems to be a Placeshifter issue with HD-PVR content.

Has anyone actually contacted support about this? Given how long the HD-PVR has been around for, it seems odd that SageTV hasn't fixed this.