Thinking about SSD...

[ericscottf]

Hi all

There are some pretty decent deals on some of the higher end SSDs going on now, I'm wondering if anyone here has used an SSD with sage yet?

all my media are on a separate RAID 10 setup, and would stay there. I'd be using the SSD for my boot drive which has my OS, SAGE, java, basically everything that isn't media on it.

I've done plenty of reading on SSDs and am aware of the consequences regarding gradual slowdown, partition alignment, firmware upgrades that wipe drives, all of that. I don't want to debate the pros and cons of SSD here, only, specifically, the pros and cons with regards to sage. My system isn't particularly taxed most of the time, but i'm always running sage as a service, and frequently have other misc. programs running too.

Any opinions? I'm especially looking for insider info on how much disk thrashing sage does when it is running - is it constantly syncing wiz.bin and other files, to an extent where SSD memory wear might be a problem, or is it a polite program that won't cause any unusual grief in that area?

Is there anything specific i should be aware of?

thanks!

[Naylia]

1) Windows/Sage boot so damn fast!

2) Accessing network shares from HD200 is faster (instantaneous) for some reason.

[ericscottf]

Precisely reason #1 that i'd like to do this.

So you're running sage on an SSD and you're happy? no unique-to-sage problems yet?

May i ask which SSD? I really want to get one of the X25-E or X25-M G2, but i'll probably settle for the new OCZ vertex line that is a third of the price and operates at some 70-90% of the speed of the intels.

[Naylia]

The discontinued Kingston 40GB (from Intel). I still need to do the firmware hack and load on the Intel firmware so I get TRIM support. Theoretically, and luckily for me, this should leave all my data intact.

I have no unique to Sage issues. It's been working great.

[Djc208]

I don't have one in my Sage machine but I did recently put one in my desktop machine when I upgraded to Win 7, and it's probably the best upgrade for your $$ today.

Startup is insanely fast, programs start almost instantly, and the only time I wait on a HDD is when I try to access something off my conventional HDDs (like videos or music) since I ususally let them spin down when not in use. And of course they're completely silent.

In fact I just bought a second since Newegg is running a shell shocker deal today on the OCZ 60GB Agility drive for $125 after rebate for my new laptop.

[ericscottf]

If you don't need the extra 30gb, get the

OCZ Vertex Turbo OCZSSD2-1VTXT30G 2.5" 30GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - Retail
Item #: N82E16820227468

for 120 after rebate -- it is faster, but half the size. Fine for me -- I'm replacing a drive that has some 10gb on it.

that's what i'll be stuffing into my sage server this weekend....

[evilpenguin]

I went with the 30gb OCZ drive as well. It may seem a bit small, but it's also a great way to self-enforce the rule of not doing to much non-Sage related messing around on your Sage Server

[Djc208]

According to Anandtech the difference in speed is between 5 and 15% compared to the Vertex drives. Considering the speed improvment the SSD offers I doubt I'd even notice it. The important part is they use the Indillix controller, the Agility just uses slower/cheaper memory.

I could squeeze by with 30GB but for a laptop 60 is more reasonable. For a server boot drive I agree 30GB would be fine, though doesn't WHS require at least 80GB? And it doesn't support trim yet, so you will have issues with performance degridation eventually.

I have an 80GB Intel G2 in my desktop, when I went to buy the 160's were over $600. Everything fits fine so far, I just keep all my bulky data on the old 200GB conventional drive.

[ccsmoke]

I have the OCZ 60g Agility series in my gaming rig for the os. I have 2 games installed on it and can echo the statements here as the best single improvement one can do. Trim support is a must in my eyes though for long term giving the price. I also used this guide for the ssd tweaks and set-up.

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ks-Utilities-*

The 2 games that I have installed on it are blood bowl and dawn of war 2. Blood bowl does give me a warping effect but it is very rare and didn't crash. Same game was in same system with WD 640 g black series and didn't have this issue.

I recommend upgrading the firmware on the drive before full installtion of the os. The price on these SSD should be cheaper and the size should be bigger in quarter 4 as they become more mainstream.

[davephan]

I was thinking about getting a SSD SLC drive several months ago for a general purpose computer. I didn't hear of about SSD drives speeding up the SageTV program before. I thought the main advantage was fast booting and program launching, and didn't speed up the programs that were already running.

SLC is supposed to be superior to MLC. Generally SLC is more expensive than MLC. I'm not sure how much of a difference there is between the two in performance or longer term reliability.

The drive I was looking at has been out of stock for a couple months.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820227484

Dave

[ccsmoke]

SLC is definately the best bang currently, but I think MLC, as long as it has trim support, is best bang for buck. It's just a matter of time before MLC will die off.

I can't remember the company's name but they are bringing a new controller on board that will try to take over the current controllers. The way I understand it, the controller takes information goes through an algorithm and writes it to the ssd using less writes. It should dramitcally increase write times and would need sata 3 to reach its full potential.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by ccsmoke

SLC is definately the best bang currently, but I think MLC, as long as it has trim support, is best bang for buck. It's just a matter of time before MLC will die off.

I'm not sure you'll see MLC go away for quite a while yet. Its drastically cheaper than SLC memory, as well as being more physically dense. For all practical purposes in consumer devices I think MLC will be the standard for quite a while, with SLC relegated to server markets where it's biggest advantage is longevity. We've just begun to develop these drives, there's lots of headroom left in them before MLC memory and it's controllers max out.

I can't remember the company's name but they are bringing a new controller on board that will try to take over the current controllers. The way I understand it, the controller takes information goes through an algorithm and writes it to the ssd using less writes. It should dramitcally increase write times and would need sata 3 to reach its full potential.

Those are the SandForce controllers. It will be interesting to see if they can compete in the consumer market.

[JetreL]

I would like to make this jump but like it was stated earlier, WHS requires an 80 gig drive and I can't justify the price with the current sizes...

[ericscottf]

I'm using windows xp pro, it is currently taking up 10gb on a 320gb drive. that's with everything installed and running.

Why would anyone want to use WHS? Does it have some advantages i don't know of?

Is it possible to threadjack a thread i started?

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by ericscottf

I'm using windows xp pro, it is currently taking up 10gb on a 320gb drive. that's with everything installed and running.

Why would anyone want to use WHS? Does it have some advantages i don't know of?

The biggest advantages of WHS are:

• The drive "pool": which treats all HDDs as one (kind of like JBOD) while still providing RAID like protection for selected data.
• The backup functions: WHS will perform backups of all the other computers connected to it on a regular basis, using a very ingenious system that minimizes space required.
• Remote admin: After it's set up most of the major admin functions are done remotely through the interface software on your other machines. You can also RDC but it's not usually needed.

The downsides are:

• It's based on server 2003 so sometimes there are driver issues, but it's rare.
• It doesn't back itself up, so it tougher to create backups of your Sage and WHS setup.
• It doesn't include any of the audio/video playback software/codecs so it doesn't work well for media playback.

It also has a remote web interface that lets you upload/download files from outside your house. And it supports "apps" that you can install and control from the remote admin screen. This is how Sage for WHS is done, it creates a screen in the admin program thats similar to the Sage server control pannel, as well as a way to register extender licences. Like all server setups it does network shares, and private network drives as well.

Lots of info available on the web. You can get a lot of the same functionality out of an XP setup but it will require a lot more software, setup, and involvement, and you still wouldn't exactly duplicate all the functionality WHS offers. In WHS is extremely well laid out and very easy to use.

Personally the backup feature and the storage pool are worth running it IMO.

[ericscottf]

I'm happy with my setup
XP Pro
Cygwyn so i can SSH or SCP into my box and do most tasks from the command line
VNC for when i need to mess around in the gui
sage webserver for when i want to mess with sage from afar
norton ghost for backing up

[Skirge01]

It doesn't back itself up, so it tougher to create backups of your Sage and WHS setup.

While it is true that WHS cannot back up it's own OS drive and that's a major outage currently, I wouldn't say that creating a backup of Sage is "tougher". You just need to do it manually or use a free 3rd party program to back it up on some frequency. You can obviously do the same for any other folder, as well.

Everything else I agree with wholeheartedly.

[JetreL]

I really think it's the path of least resistance for many.. (at least for me) It's designed from the ground up to run as a headless server. The process and memory management seems more robust. Backups are a big plus, as well as file duplication on the things I want to keep. Images, music, DVD rips, etc.

I personally would like to run SageTV on Linux but to be candid it's just A LOT OF WORK to get it up and running stable and with the same functionality as Windows. I have the license and have tinkered with it several times but keep going back to Windows for SageTV because of some plugins take a lot of tinkering and the WAF factor is *very* important...

[ericscottf]

If i were willing to put in the effort to get something running in linux, i'd've installed myth. I've got linux running on most of my computers (I'm an engineer, so windows is a must for the software), but when it comes to anything that has a UI, i'm just not going to suffer through using linux.

the ease of use and the hd-200 are what sealed the deal for me with sage. for $180, i can have a media player at each tv, fanless and with a remote? no contest.

[Djc208]

Originally Posted by ericscottf

I'm happy with my setup
XP Pro
Cygwyn so i can SSH or SCP into my box and do most tasks from the command line
VNC for when i need to mess around in the gui
sage webserver for when i want to mess with sage from afar
norton ghost for backing up

I had a similar setup for a long time. Like JetreL said WHS is very easy to set up and gives 90% of the same functionality out of the box with almost no real work.

Though for automated backups I really don't know of anything that's as slick or efficient as the WHS backup feature. This is an old link but it does go into better detail of what WHS brings to the table.

With 3 other machines in the house, the backup feature and the drive pool were what prompted me to move to WHS.