Considering switching from Windows to Linux...

[davephan]

I am considering switching from Windows to Linux. I am trying to determine what things that work with SageTV, including accessory programs, that work in Windows, that will not work in Linux.

I have a USB-UIRT, HDHomerun, HVR-2250, HD-PVR. I use Comskip SJQ, and Playon. I'm sure there are other things I probably use that don't come to mind right now.

The reason to switch to Linux is to possibly have a more stable system for SageTV. What things should I be concerned about that could make the switch from Windows to Linux unacceptable, or difficult?

Dave

[drewg]

Originally Posted by davephan

What things should I be concerned about that could make the switch from Windows to Linux unacceptable, or difficult?

Playon doesn't run under Linux, and it doesn't run under Wine (lowest weight emulator), so you're stuck with needing a windows box for it. I run Playon it an XP virtual machine on my Linux server. Playon seems slower & takes more resources in a VM. For example, running a single-core XP VM under VirtualBox or VMware with a dual-core AMD 4850e 2.5GHz CPU host, the CPU would be maxed, and I could never get smooth hulu video. Running XP in a 2-CPU VM seemed even worse. As a test, I ran it natively on a dual-core Ion (1.6GHz atom) running Win7, and everything was much smoother, and the CPU was not maxed.

Things have gotten a lot better since I upgraded my host CPU from the 4850e to a 2.9GHz X4 635, but playon under linux is not fun...

Drew

[Serra]

If it were possible I would chuck all my Windows machines and go total to Linux, but there are just too many issues.

I accidentally locked up my Linux server last Saturday. (Software issue) I had to reboot it to solve the issue. I checked, last time it was rebooted was December of 2008. That is what I call stable.

[davephan]

That's the type of stories I keep hearing about Linux, it runs for years without reboots. Windows just cannot do that.

I'm trying to figure out if USB-UIRT, HDHomerun, HVR-2250, HD-PVR, Comskip SJQ, and Playon will work with the SageTV Linux version.

It looks like Playon won't work. I don't know if it can be run from a Windows computer, separate from the SageTV computer or if I will need to have two SageTV computers. The Linux version for most functions, and the Windows version for things that won't work on Linux.

Dave

[gplasky]

Playon can run on any PC on your network and be used with Sage.

Gerry

[davephan]

Thanks for the responses Drew, Serra, and Gerry.

Since there's no Linux trial, I need to get as much information what won't work under Linux, before I purchase the Linux version.

It sounds like IR blasting will work, and I may need to buy the Commander IR to do it. The HD-PVR will work. SJQ works. Comskip works. The HVR-2250 will work with digital, but not analog. Playon will work if run on a separate Windows computer on the network.

I don't know if the HDHomerun will work with the SageTV Linux version.

There might be other accessory programs and things that might not work under Linux that aren't on my list yet. It would be easier if there was a Linux FAQ somewhere that states what works with Linux, what does not work with Linux, and alternative ways to get the applications and hardware to work with Linux, so people know in advance of the purchase, since there isn't a Linux trial version.

Dave

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by davephan

I don't know if the HDHomerun will work with the SageTV Linux version.

I'm fairly sure the HDHR will work. I have one on my network and I think I've tried it from my linux development machine.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by davephan

I don't know if the HDHomerun will work with the SageTV Linux version.

I'm using an HDHR with linux for QAM. It works just fine.

In fact. it probably works *better* under linux than windows7 / vista, as it is treated as a simple tuner on linux (so none of the extra HDHR stuff applies, and you don't have to worry about various config files being written to the wrong place, UAC enabled, etc).

Drew

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by davephan

That's the type of stories I keep hearing about Linux, it runs for years without reboots. Windows just cannot do that.

If you leave it alone it can. That's really the problem with Windows, not the OS, but the people using it. People are so comfortable in it, and there's so much crud available for it, people just can't help but screw it up.

I don't recall ever having to reboot my Windows server because of "Windows". Only times I reboot it are for things like driver updates.

My server's been up for 26 days now, and that last reboot/shutdown was only to take the raid array offline (disconnect it) because I'd moved it's contents to a new one.

I'm trying to figure out if USB-UIRT, HDHomerun, HVR-2250, HD-PVR, Comskip SJQ, and Playon will work with the SageTV Linux version.

Last time I did my research, the comskip stuff doesn't run natively under linux (don't remember about under wine or not), USB-UIRT isn't natively supported by Sage for tuning, and Playon's already been discussed.

[ltburch2000]

USB-IRT runs under linux just fine. Sage TV needs some sort of an external tuner plugin to use it though. There are one or two posted on the forums already.

Comskip runs fine under wine, again there are several posts with instructions on how to do this.

Ultimately I am happier on my Linux configuration than I was on Windows. I will admit though that there has been occasional fights to get things to work, but I usually had an issue or two with windows too.

Something that I was not able to get working on Linux was 5.1 playback. I can go optical out just fine but I can't get it to do 5.1. I know my hardware it has the ability to do it because MythTV could do it but for some reason Sage on Linux couldn't (it could on windows).

Lee Burch

[RocKKer]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Last time I did my research, the comskip stuff doesn't run natively under linux (don't remember about under wine or not), USB-UIRT isn't natively supported by Sage for tuning, and Playon's already been discussed.

I can confirm comskip works very well under wine.

[broconne]

I am also considering moving from windows to linux, or more specifically moving from a windows VM running on ESXi to a linux VM on esxi.

At this point, I am holding off because I would lose Sage MyMovies support. However, it sounds like a linux compatible system is in the works for that.

I have an 2 HDHRs and 1 HDPVR. I am thinking of moving because XP only supports 2 CPUs which is how cores are presented to XP via ESXi. There are a few times, when the UI gets a little sluggish and I will look and all of the CPU on the VM is being consumed (no idea by what). If I moved to linux I would get access to all 8 cores for the Sage VM (if needed).

[DylanHall]

If you live outside of the US guide data can be an issue. From my experience you need an xmltv plugin to convert the guide data. Most of the xmltv plugins appear to be windows specific.

From my experience the linux version is mostly single threaded, so except when converting video and generating thumbnails it doesn't make use of more than one core.

I used to run a linux based home theatre pc. I spent hundreds of hours of hours constantly tuning and tweaking the system to get 5.1 channel audio, hardware accelerated video, etc.

I now run a head-less server with 2 x HD200 media extenders. Best money I've spent. They just work! Of course, the HD200's work with windows also

I use a 32bit version of linux (ubuntu 10.04). In theory you can run sage on a 64bit linux, but this does require some effort as sagetv has 32bit native code and needs special 32bit java libraries.

Dylan

[drewg]

Originally Posted by broconne

There are a few times, when the UI gets a little sluggish and I will look and all of the CPU on the VM is being consumed (no idea by what). If I moved to linux I would get access to all 8 cores for the Sage VM (if needed).

I would really hope you wouldn't need 8 cores for SageTV, but then again, I don't use any of the really fancy gui things. Heck, I don't recall ever seeing SageTV max out my old dual-core athlon64. Maybe your problem is either some XP thing, or a virtualization artifact. I know that virtualized SMP can be hit or miss. I tried giving my playon XP VM 2 CPUS, and it wound up being slower than it was on a single CPU. Perhaps more to do with Virtualbox, but still..

As an aside, I'm in Cary also. Nice to see another local Sage user.

Drew

[JetreL]

Originally Posted by davephan

That's the type of stories I keep hearing about Linux, it runs for years without reboots.

I used to work at an ISP and we had a Real Player Media server running on BSD for a client that had been up for just under 6 years. (Standard PC for the time no redundancy) The need went away before the OS or hardware failed.

[RetroBox]

I have also considered switching to Linux, but I get stuck trying to decide on what distribution to get and what additional configuration would be necessary to make a "seamless" switch as davephan is asking about.

Would the latest version of Ubuntu be the best place to start for someone with no real functional knowledge of Linux? Kubuntu? Some other Debian distribution? Does it include WINE - do we need WINE? I guess it may sound silly for those familiar in this space, but the learning curve is rather steep for someone trying to build a first box to host Sage that will not have anything "missing" from what came "easy" under Windows 7.

[RocKKer]

Originally Posted by RetroBox

Would the latest version of Ubuntu be the best place to start for someone with no real functional knowledge of Linux? Kubuntu? Some other Debian distribution?

Start with Ubuntu desktop, lots of support on the Ubuntu and STV communites.

Originally Posted by RetroBox

Does it include WINE - do we need WINE?

I only use it for comskip, I don't think it is included but easily added thru GUI package manager.

Originally Posted by RetroBox

I guess it may sound silly for those familiar in this space, but the learning curve is rather steep for someone trying to build a first box to host Sage that will not have anything "missing" from what came "easy" under Windows 7.

Nope not silly, support is here in the STV and at the Ubuntu community for the inevitable questions. There will be things missing, many have been listed above. If your gonna step into this space, start with a relatively easy setup (STV w/o video duties, HDHR, HDxxx) with WINE and comskip.

[DigitalMan]

Originally Posted by broconne

...

I have an 2 HDHRs and 1 HDPVR. I am thinking of moving because XP only supports 2 CPUs which is how cores are presented to XP via ESXi. There are a few times, when the UI gets a little sluggish and I will look and all of the CPU on the VM is being consumed (no idea by what). If I moved to linux I would get access to all 8 cores for the Sage VM (if needed).

ESXi only presents it that way if you leave it set to the default settings. You can change it to anything you want (and more than 4 cores if you have a paid license)

just set this setting:
cpuid.corespersocket=4

[broconne]

Originally Posted by drewg

I would really hope you wouldn't need 8 cores for SageTV, but then again, I don't use any of the really fancy gui things. Heck, I don't recall ever seeing SageTV max out my old dual-core athlon64. Maybe your problem is either some XP thing, or a virtualization artifact. I know that virtualized SMP can be hit or miss. I tried giving my playon XP VM 2 CPUS, and it wound up being slower than it was on a single CPU. Perhaps more to do with Virtualbox, but still..

As an aside, I'm in Cary also. Nice to see another local Sage user.

Drew

It is good to see another Cary user.. I figured I had cornered the market...

Yeah, I can't imagine it using all 8 cores.. However, as I said I have seen it have 2 at 100% before for very short periods of time. I am not sure the cause - but it concerns me.

[broconne]

Originally Posted by DigitalMan

ESXi only presents it that way if you leave it set to the default settings. You can change it to anything you want (and more than 4 cores if you have a paid license)

just set this setting:
cpuid.corespersocket=4

Thanks for the heads up.. Nice find there!