Comcast HD Boxes

[jstrellner]

I'm in the process of building a new SageTV server (upgrading from I think 6.6) and one of the goals is to start bringing in HD.

Currently I have 3 Motorola DCT2224's that are controlled via Serial cable for the channel changing and get fed into a Hauppauge 500 and a Hauppauge 150. Even though my setup is capable of doing 3 recordings at a time, I am not using the breakout card/second input due to quality, so I can currently record 2 channels at the same time.

The DCT2224's do not have component out, so I know that I will be needing to replace these. What boxes do you recommend on Comcast for HD? I understand I will need to get two or three HD-PVR's for the HD.

Of all of the boxes Comcast offers that have HD, which ones seem to be the most reliable. I'd like to stick with serial changing, but am willing to go to firewire for changing or even the USB-UIRT if I have to ( I just hate the delay of the USB-UIRT).

P.S. Doubt this will make any difference to the above question, but I am also going to be ordering an HDHomerun to get HD over the air since I should be able to get all my locals (they're about 30 miles out).

[KeithAbbott]

Boy, an HDHomeRun Prime would make a perfect companion to your new HDHomeRun. The Prime is supposed to be available in the next couple of weeks, and if the planets align, it might even work with SageTV and Comcast to get the HD content that you are looking for.

Check out information here:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

[jstrellner]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Boy, an HDHomeRun Prime would make a perfect companion to your new HDHomeRun. The Prime is supposed to be available in the next couple of weeks, and if the planets align, it might even work with SageTV and Comcast to get the HD content that you are looking for.

Check out information here:

http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

I'm on the mailing list for the Prime. I have read though that it'll only work with Windows Media Center. Has that changed? I'd love to just get one of the Prime boxes and be done.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by jstrellner

I have read though that it'll only work with Windows Media Center. Has that changed?.

That is the $25K question, and is the source of much speculation right now. If anyone knows whether it will work with SageTV or not, they are probably sworn to secrecy. Since the release is imminent, if I were you, I'd hold off for a couple of weeks, or maybe until CES, to decide on a course of action.

Also, from previous posts, even if SageTV supports the HDHR Prime, that may not necessarily mean that it will work with your cable provider, based on DRM.

[jstrellner]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

Since the release is imminent, if I were you, I'd hold off for a couple of weeks, or maybe until CES, to decide on a course of action.

That's probably what I'll be doing anyways, so not much of a stretch for me. The first version of this Sage V7 box will get the HDHomerun and the existing Hauppauge cards, then I want to yank the cards and get something HD compatible in there.

Thanks for the advice Keith.

Just in case the Prime won't work, I'm still open for suggestions for boxes to request from Comcast.

[reggie14]

I kind of doubt Sage is sworn to secrecy over the HDHR Prime, unless they have something unexpected up their sleeve (like full cablecard support with DRM). SiliconDust already said the HDHR Prime operating with a cablecard with non-copy protected channels essentially looks like a QAM tuner to third-party apps. I think that means there's a good chance Sage will support it.

But, I think support will be limited to non-copy-protected channels. Currently, for Comcast users, that means no premium channels, but that could change at any moment to include the expanded basic lineup (e.g., TNT, USA, ESPN, etc.).

I have two Motorola DCT-6200 boxes from Comcast. I got them because they have functioning firewire ports where I live. I use one STB with an HD-PVR with firewire channel changing, and the second I use with firewire recording (with mixed success, I think the software for firewire recording is buggy). The STBs seem fine. Somewhat oddly, you have to lock in HD channels to a single resolution. You can't have it display 720p channels at 720p and 1080i channels at 1080i. I've locked mine to output at 720p for HD channels, and 480i for SD channels (I use 480i instead of 480p because Sage would mess up the aspect ratio for recordings set at 480p).

I'm not sure if there are any other firewire-enabled boxes with comcast. As a warning, if you want to do firewire channel changing you'll need to use a 32-bit version of windows on your server.

If you want to get a DCT-6200 box, I recommend going to your local comcast office, and asked for the Motorola HD box that *doesn't* have an HDMI port. They'll think you're nuts, but its a lot easier than asking for the one with a firewire/IEEE1394 port (since they've almost certainly never heard of that).

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I kind of doubt Sage is sworn to secrecy over the HDHR Prime, unless they have something unexpected up their sleeve (like full cablecard support with DRM).

The "sworn to secrecy" comment was a little tongue-in-cheek. What I was referring to is that Sage does not typically release much information about it's future plans, and the alpha testers from this forum (at least for release 7 and the HD300) remained very silent until Sage announced availability of the HD300.

[doncote0]

Triple Play locked in price of $130 a month unlocked after initial period (1 year). I just realized my bill hit $230/month. No warning from Comcast, no notice.

The extremely rude "customer service" representative helped me reduce my plan to a more acceptable $180/month rate. "No sir, your plan never included a free HD channel box." "Ummm, yes it did, I asked for it and it was one of the reasons I chose my previous plan." "Well it's not showing on the account, so I guess you are out of luck as well as $10.99/month for the last year". (Wow. Guess I am an idiot for not recording the conversation that I had 1.5 years ago--or I should have gotten it in writing.)

I am also getting charged $10.99/month each for two extra HD boxes is just freakin crazy.

Good news is that I might be able to eliminate all of my additional cable boxes:

HDHomeRun® - PRIME™
Quick status update...
We are at CableLabs® for the final review, with release to production in 2 weeks. Pre-order and release dates will be announced shortly following release to production.
On the availability side we are working with major retail partners to stock the HDHomeRun PRIME and accept pre-orders. The price has been confirmed at $249.
Black Friday - We have been working with the good people at Newegg for a great Black Friday deal on the original HDHomeRun-Dual ATSC/clear QAM tuner. The sale runs Friday November 26 continuing through to Cyber Monday.
CES - everything is in place for a great CES 2011 in Las Vegas January 6-9 - We will be on the floor in the South Hall 3, upper level, booth 31948.

Release to production is the key milestone for us and we have been working hard to make it happen. We will keep you posted.

Happy holidays,
Ted H - CEO
Silicondust Inc. USA

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by jstrellner

Currently I have 3 Motorola DCT2224's that are controlled via Serial cable for the channel changing and get fed into a Hauppauge 500 and a Hauppauge 150. Even though my setup is capable of doing 3 recordings at a time, I am not using the breakout card/second input due to quality, so I can currently record 2 channels at the same time.

The DCT2224's do not have component out, so I know that I will be needing to replace these. What boxes do you recommend on Comcast for HD? I understand I will need to get two or three HD-PVR's for the HD.

Just to be clear - you do realize that you will need to upgrade your capture cards as well, right? The PVR-150 and 500 cannot record from component. The HD-PVR is the only device currently supported by Sage that can record HD from component. There are also some HAVA devices that can accept component, but they convert down to SD.

The 62xx series seems to be the most common device that Comcast is offering for HD support. There are a couple of different models (last two digits change) some are single tuner and others are dual tuner with DVR. Don't get one of their DVR boxes and just get a single tuner box (even though they have 2-tuner boxes, they are single output, so you can only watch one tuner at a time).

Originally Posted by jstrellner

Of all of the boxes Comcast offers that have HD, which ones seem to be the most reliable. I'd like to stick with serial changing, but am willing to go to firewire for changing or even the USB-UIRT if I have to ( I just hate the delay of the USB-UIRT).

I don't think any of the 6200 boxes have serial ports - they all have firewire instead. If you want to use firewire for recording or channel changing, you need a 32-bit version of Windows (there are no 64-bit firewire drivers).

If you use an IR blaster, the IR receiver doesn't seem to work as well on the 6200 boxes as it did on the 22xx boxes - you need to aim your remote or blaster more carefully. Also, the receiver is on the left side of the clock display (vs. the right side on the 22xx boxes).

As someone else noted, the HD channels must be locked to either 720p or 1080i. 720p is a little less taxing to play back or transcode, so you are probably better-off choosing 720p. For the SD channels, you get 3 choices: upconvert to HD, output at 480i or 480p. If you upconvert to HD, it doesn't upsample the image, it just inserts a black box on all sides to fill up the screen, so you end up with a large file. 480i works best because the HD-PVR assumes that anything that is 480p must be a wide-screen DVD source and it adjusts the aspect ratio so your picture gets stretched and you have to force the aspect ratio to something custom in Sage to make it look right.

[Bandit]

Regardless if sage supports it or not, can't we use SageMCTuner with the Prime? I saw someone was using SageMCTuner with the Ceton device just fine. I am comcast as well and want to change to cablecard device if possible.

[sflamm]

I use 2 Mot 6200s with HDPVRs and firewire. Channel changing on both is flawless.

I did not use the motherboard USB or Firewire - instead I bought a USB/Firewire PCI card.

Also, FYI, you can chain the firewire ports from one 6200 to another. That works as well (and reduces the number of cables necessary from your computer).

[sflamm]

The Ceton is a very bad bet- as it will only work (even with WMC7) if the channel is flagged as copy freely.

Most providers (mine is Comcast) either already prevent this or are in the process of upgrading/encrypting networks to do so.

If this happens there is no recourse and you basically have a $400 HDHR (x2).

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by sflamm

The Ceton is a very bad bet- as it will only work (even with WMC7) if the channel is flagged as copy freely.

Most providers (mine is Comcast) either already prevent this or are in the process of upgrading/encrypting networks to do so.

If this happens there is no recourse and you basically have a $400 HDHR (x2).

but that is fine if willing to use SageMCTuner as it uses WMC7 to use the Ceton, and hopefully the Prime, in sage. Didn't mean to hijack this thread, but with the success of SageMCTuner working with the Ceton, I think the Ceton and the upcoming Prime are two very good solutions to get multiple HD recordings into Sage. That is, if you are willing to have to use WMC7 as a go between, but that just means all channels will work fine.

[sflamm]

On Comcast STB 6200, I found using 480p is the way to go. As it is apparently already letterboxed and transmitted at 480p on Comcast digital channels.

If you set Mot 6200 to 480i, the video will stutter badly... I believer the STB 6200 is pretty awful at downsampling.

I've also noticed that fixing HD output to 720p is a must. As the Mot 6200 has similar issues upsampling to 1080i.

Probably because the box is so old...

On a side note, the RG110 (new box issued by comcast) can be successfully tuned with Firewire as well. Not sure if it has any of the aspect ratio problems as Mot 6200 (dont have one currently).

[sflamm]

if you are willing to have to use WMC7 as a go between, but that just means all channels will work fine.

I dont believe this is correct. The WMC7 .wtv file can only be transcoded to SageTV .ts IF the flag is set to "Copy Freely"

Otherwise it cannot be used. Which means as I said, that as soon as your provider changes this youre out of luck and there is no recourse.

[src666]

Originally Posted by sflamm

The Ceton is a very bad bet- as it will only work (even with WMC7) if the channel is flagged as copy freely.

What is the source for this statement? Ceton says that it works with encrypted/protected content such as HBO.

To the best of my knowledge, and according to the WMC users over on thegreenbutton forums, it records all the channels.

[sflamm]

All channels in WMC7. As WMC7 is compliant with the DRM.

That is not applicable to SageTV.

[src666]

Originally Posted by sflamm

All channels in WMC7. As WMC7 is compliant with the DRM.

That is not applicable to SageTV.

Yes, but in your original statement you said "it will only work (even with WMC7) if the channel is flagged as copy freely" - that's a pretty strong implication that WMC7 can't record protected content using the Ceton tuner.

I just wanted to make sure that there was some clarity around that issue.

[sflamm]

What I meant by "even with WMC7" was that even with SageTV using Ceton through WMC7 ...

Keep in mind this is a SageTV forum and nobody cares what WMC7 can do standalone - only what will help with SageTV.

And with Ceton there are no guarantees.

[doncote0]

Doesn't look like a bad bet to me (or Silicondust, or Comcast, or Ceton, etc).

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...6&postcount=33

So far anything that is available in WMC is available in SageTV. Yes, we are talking about Comcast.

After talking with a Comcast representative about the Seattle area, they said this,

"We already have CableCard in use in your area. Some of our cable boxes even use that. You will get any channel that the CableCard authorizes you to use based on your programming level except for Pay Per View, On Demand, Comcast DVR or any other Comcast programming that requires two-way communication."

Cool. I will be slapping a CableCard Capture device down on my newegg account as soon as it is available (within the next few weeks according to Silicondust).

My PVR fails to record my premium channels shows (Dexter HD) about 1/2 the time anyway. I mean, if I wanted to do that...