Comcast HD Boxes

[sflamm]

You will get any channel that the CableCard authorizes you to use based on your programming level

It only authorizes that it is watched inside WMC7 (not "copy freely").

You will not be able to copy them to SageTV (read up on the "copy" flag)

Go ahead - lose your $. LOL

Read around if you dont believe me. Hell if you look at the diagnostics of the channels through your comcast box you can see the flag set.

[doncote0]

sflamm, why don't you go to the link that I posted in my previous post before you try to scare everyone?

What are you basing your obvious bash campaign on--what you think will happen or what has actually happened?

If you want to keep your PVRx2 and all your STB's go for it. No one will stop you.

[thomaszoo]

At this point the most I am hoping for is that SageTV can schedule all of the recordings (copy freely or not). While it would be great to be able to watch everything on the extenders, I would settle for being able to watch all but the DRM'd programming on the extenders; the DRM'd programs I would have to watch through WMC. Unless the HD300s are updated to meet the DRM specs

[reggie14]

Careful, doncote0, because sflamm is right. The SageMCTuner plugin will not work with copy-protected content. Meaning, any channel that Comcast decides to mark copy-once or copy-never cannot be imported into Sage. That is because SageMCTuner basically just tells Windows Media Center to record a file, and SageMCTuner converts the file from a WTV to a TS file (which doesn't require transcoding, only changing the container) and puts it somewhere Sage can access. If the channel is marked copy-once, then WMC will copy-protect the recording, and SageMCTuner won't be able to do the container swap, and Sage won't be able to access it.

The good news, in your case, is that Comcast doesn't copy-protect most channels. The bad news is that they do copy-protect premium channels like Showtime. So, no Dexter over cablecard. And you never know when Comcast might decide to turn on copy protection on additional channels. I think its unlikely to happen in the next year or two, but you never know.

Also, you might not need to use SageMCTuner, if you're still willing to go cablecard knowing you can't record Showtime. A couple months ago, a SiliconDust employee made the following comment on their forums:

Originally Posted by nickk

Confirming, the HDHomeRun Prime (with a card installed) does not make a distinction between Unencrypted QAM and access controlled copy freely QAM. Both types will work with software supporting copy freely content.

The thread was erased recently, but it was part of a massive thread-cleaning on the SiliconDust boards of older threads, so I don't think that means anything. I'm reading that as Sage could natively support the HDHR Prime, and might not even need to do anything beyond what they already do to support the HDHR.

[sflamm]

The problem with the Prime for SageTV is that is would be nothing more than 2x HDHR for more $.... I guess it is an easier cabling factor.... but pretty expensive premium.

If you use WMC, then Prime is better than the internal Ceton card because it is a networked tuner/encoder and can be shared across WMCs (the dreaded no client server model - I use to do this before I switched to SageTV many moons ago)

The reason I have 2x HDHRs and 2x STBs is because Comcast had to go ahead and encrypt all my clear QAM content (like has happened to everyone else).

It would be great if these could be eliminated, but that doesnt seem likely in the near future... and more importantly folks shouldn't have false expectations as to what the Ceton card will do for them.

For folks having trouble getting the HDHRs working - keep in mind they do work. I have had success with both HDHR models E1 and F1 and firmware versions 1.5.3.0 and 1.5.7.0. I have run them with both SageTV 6 and now SageTV 7 always using SPDIF audio out and fixing the STB video to 720P HD and 480p SD. The STBs are tuned by Firewire using MultiEXETuner. Others successfully use USB-UIRT (I have one but do not use it since I find firewire to be very reliable and easy to setup).

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by sflamm

The problem with the Prime for SageTV is that is would be nothing more than 2x HDHR for more $.... I guess it is an easier cabling factor.... but pretty expensive premium.

If you use WMC, then Prime is better than the internal Ceton card because it is a networked tuner/encoder and can be shared across WMCs (the dreaded no client server model - I use to do this before I switched to SageTV many moons ago)

The reason I have 2x HDHRs and 2x STBs is because Comcast had to go ahead and encrypt all my clear QAM content (like has happened to everyone else).

It would be great if these could be eliminated, but that doesnt seem likely in the near future... and more importantly folks shouldn't have false expectations as to what the Ceton card will do for them.

For folks having trouble getting the HDHRs working - keep in mind they do work. I have had success with both HDHR models E1 and F1 and firmware versions 1.5.3.0 and 1.5.7.0. I have run them with both SageTV 6 and now SageTV 7 always using SPDIF audio out and fixing the STB video to 720P HD and 480p SD. The STBs are tuned by Firewire using MultiEXETuner. Others successfully use USB-UIRT (I have one but do not use it since I find firewire to be very reliable and easy to setup).

I think you meant to say HD-PVR, not HDHR...

[sflamm]

Yes, thanks. HD-PVRs.

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by sflamm

I have run them with both SageTV 6 and now SageTV 7 always using SPDIF audio out and fixing the STB video to 720P HD and 480p SD. The STBs are tuned by Firewire using MultiEXETuner. Others successfully use USB-UIRT (I have one but do not use it since I find firewire to be very reliable and easy to setup).

1 Ceton InfiniTV 4..... = $400
1 cablecard............ = Free!
1080i Stargate Universe = Priceless.

[sflamm]

I see no reason you cannot run the HD-PVRs at 1080i in general (I believe many do). However from experience I know my old Mot 6200 STBs aren't big fans of outputting 1080i

Btw, the cost of a M-Card from Comcast is $6/mo last I checked.

I'm so sick and tired of Craptastic nickel and diming me for every last item. I pay $10/mo for each of the STBs... in comparison a flat $6/mo would be great!

At least I recently I moved to my OOMA... and dropped their VOIP service. A step closer to freedom.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by sflamm

The problem with the Prime for SageTV is that is would be nothing more than 2x HDHR for more $.... I guess it is an easier cabling factor.... but pretty expensive premium.

I'm not quite sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting that the HDHR-Prime is effectively no better than two regular HDHRs? I think that's unfounded. There certainly are some users that would currently benefit from a copy-freely-only cablecard solution. Right now that's basically Comcast and FiOS subscribers. Those users would be able to record 3 HD channels at once for significantly reduced cost compared to 3xHD-PVRs, or even 1xHD-PVR and 1xHDHR.

The biggest problem is uncertainty...

It would be great if these could be eliminated, but that doesnt seem likely in the near future... and more importantly folks shouldn't have false expectations as to what the Ceton card will do for them.

You make a very, very good point here. I've been touting the HDHR-Prime as a good opportunity, but its certainly not without risks. Even people with channels currently marked copy-freely should know that could change at any time. And it's quite a bit worse than R5000 users knowing that satellite/cable providers could, in principle, render their current STBs useless since it could literally happen overnight without warning.

The reason I have 2x HDHRs and 2x STBs is because Comcast had to go ahead and encrypt all my clear QAM content (like has happened to everyone else).

Actually, this is why I would feel relatively comfortable trying an HDHR-Prime. The way I see it, if comcast was going to roll out copy-protected channels, they would have done so when they did the digital roll-out. Instead, after the roll-out, I actually got more copy-freely channels. The small number of expanded basic channels that were copy-protected (e.g., the History Channel), stopped being protected as soon as Comcast started encrypting the expanded basic lineup.

For folks having trouble getting the HDHRs working - keep in mind they do work. I have had success with both HDHR models E1 and F1 and firmware versions 1.5.3.0 and 1.5.7.0. I have run them with both SageTV 6 and now SageTV 7 always using SPDIF audio out and fixing the STB video to 720P HD and 480p SD.

I've never been able to get my HD-PVR to work with STARZ and SPDIF-out. I could almost reproduce a lock-up on-demand by recording a movie on STARZ and waiting until the point where the credits stop rolling at the end. Though, I might give it another try to see if Sage 7 fixes that problem. It sure sounded like a STARZ/STB problem (also DCT6200s), which isn't exactly Sage's or Hauppague's fault, but a problem nonetheless.

I'm curious though, how did you get 480p SD output working with the HD-PVR? Whenever I set my STB to that I always get stretched-out SD channels.

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by sflamm

I see no reason you cannot run the HD-PVRs at 1080i in general (I believe many do). However from experience I know my old Mot 6200 STBs aren't big fans of outputting 1080i

I'm just a little confused as to why you're bashing a system that:

1) You've never even tried?
2) Is working (for me at least)?
3) Doesn't require any external tuning solutions?
4) Is just plain awesome?

It's like the RonCo cablecard solution for Sage: Set it and forget it!

Btw, the cost of a M-Card from Comcast is $6/mo last I checked.

BTW, nope.
http://customer.comcast.com/Pages/FA...4-def06cced0db

Even if it did cost $6/mo, it is more than worth it. I have one card tucked neatly inside my computer with one cable running from the cable outlet to my card. I get 4 tuners that haven't once missed a recording.

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by Mythikal

I'm just a little confused as to why you're bashing a system that:

1) You've never even tried?
2) Is working (for me at least)?
3) Doesn't require any external tuning solutions?
4) Is just plain awesome?

It's like the RonCo cablecard solution for Sage: Set it and forget it!
BTW, nope.
http://customer.comcast.com/Pages/FA...4-def06cced0db

Even if it did cost $6/mo, it is more than worth it. I have one card tucked neatly inside my computer with one cable running from the cable outlet to my card. I get 4 tuners that haven't once missed a recording.

I'm going to get a prime just because of your luck with comcast and the Ceton. That plus my 2 HDHR and 2 HD-PVR will give me plenty of tuners again. Comcast went all digital here a couple weeks ago and it knocked my 4 analog tuners out basically. Replacing them with a Prime will be great, even if it only lasts for a year or 2 it'll be worth it to me.

[sflamm]

There certainly are some users that would currently benefit from a copy-freely-only cablecard solution.

My mistake. I meant to say 2x HD-PVRs, not HDHRs.

Not sure if there is really an advantage of the Prime over the HD-PVRs though for SageTV... The HD-PVRs can record both copy-freely and copy-protected content. Whereas the Prime can only record copy-freely content. The HD-PVRs can be used with any provider - satellite or cable. The Prime can only be used with a cable provider. It is true the cost of a Prime gives you 3 copy-freely content tuners for the cost of 2 HD-PVR copy-protected tuners (HD-PVRs are around $190 right now). But the cost of the digital starter package is around $60/mo and if you are already paying that dont you want to be able to record the copy-protected content (around 100 HD channels)? And only the HD-PVRs will let you do that.

Of course the overall service cost is lower for the Prime, 1 x $6 M-card versus 3 x $10 STBs. And of course the other huge advantage - independence from any machine (networked). Located it anywhere and bye bye STBs and cables.

I do think it is a reasonable assumption based on history that SageTV will support the Prime.

Actually, this is why I would feel relatively comfortable trying an HDHR-Prime. The way I see it, if comcast was going to roll out copy-protected channels, they would have done so when they did the digital roll-out

I see your logic - but let me remind you of Comcast history. While they were planning the digital upgrade - almost all of the encrypted-QAM channels became clear-QAM channels. And we all loved it! Until the day we woke up to find we could see almost no channel (now that was a bad morning). As part of their next phase they subsequently encrypted everything.

I wouldnt assume that Comcast will not modify the copy-freely flags. If history repeats itself (and often does), once they have completed the digital roll-out nationwide they will turn to the next phase. Which may in fact include changing the copy-freely flags and other mods.

In the meantime, before taking the plunge - the safest thing for folks to do is check all their channels (if their STB diagnostics allow them to do so). Assuming they are happy with the scope of the copy-free content then go for it. Enjoy it while it lasts. But dont be surprised to wake up to a very unhappy morning as we did with the clear-QAM situation.

I suppose that ultimately leads to what you said.... The biggest problem is uncertainty.

I've never been able to get my HD-PVR to work with STARZ and SPDIF-out

That's interesting. There is one channel, TBSHD, that has a similar problem for me. It doesnt lock up - but the audio can randomly become garbage. I think there is something wrong with the broadcast signal as it does not happen on any other channel. It does seem to have gotten better for me in SageTV 7 - not sure if that implies that the problem lies in SageTV or that SageTV is more forgiving somehow...

480p SD output working with the HD-PVR?

I havent done anything special. By definition 480p should have 4:3 aspect ratio. But I notice it looks fine - has black pillars on both sides. I suppose the Mot 6200 STB is doing that...

[sflamm]

I'm just a little confused as to why you're bashing a system

Not bashing anything. I too would love nothing more.... but you have to keep in perspective that the party can end at any moment. There are no guarantees. If you are fine with that - party on.

BTW, nope.
http://customer.comcast.com/Pages/FA...4-def06cced0db

I've been through this with lovely Comcast customer service. That free card is for non-HD service. Just like SD STBs are free. At least that's what the %#@$ told me.

And as you said, even at $6 - no problem versus the alternative.

I'm going to get a prime just because of your luck with comcast and the Ceton. That plus my 2 HDHR and 2 HD-PVR will give me plenty of tuners again. Comcast went all digital here a couple weeks ago and it knocked my 4 analog tuners out basically

If you already have 2 HDHR and 2 HD-PVR then why do you need a Ceton at all? All the local channels (ABC, CBS, NBC) aka PrimeTime content can still be tuned with the HDHRs. Leaving you with 2 protected content HD-PVR tuners... Why spend another $400? And the complexity of being stuck pinned to WMC for all eternity....

[Bandit]

Originally Posted by sflamm

If you already have 2 HDHR and 2 HD-PVR then why do you need a Ceton at all? All the local channels (ABC, CBS, NBC) aka PrimeTime content can still be tuned with the HDHRs. Leaving you with 2 protected content HD-PVR tuners... Why spend another $400? And the complexity of being stuck pinned to WMC for all eternity....

Valid question

Not getting Ceton, getting the Prime, the 1 extra tuner isn't worth the $150 price difference to me since I already have the 2 HD-PVR. However, my daughter and I watch WAY to much TV and I run out of tuners to record all the time. for example from 9-12 tonight I couldn't watch anything I wanted because she was in bed watching Disney HD and her stupid favorite 16 and Pregnant was recording 3 new eps on MTVHD. So I was stuck with local OTA channels or nothing.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Not sure if there is really an advantage of the Prime over the HD-PVRs though for SageTV...

Cost is the big one. I think a cablecard setup would be easier to use and manage. You don't need to figure out how to get firewire tuning working, or a multi-zone USB-UIRT, and you don't need to worry about STBs.

I also think there are two big advantages to recording the raw data feed: 1) mpeg2 content is easier to work with for comskip and transcoding purposes, and 2) there's something to be said for recording the digital feed, rather than going through another round of lossy compression.

Originally Posted by sflamm

But the cost of the digital starter package is around $60/mo and if you are already paying that dont you want to be able to record the copy-protected content (around 100 HD channels)? And only the HD-PVRs will let you do that.

If it were just me in my apartment I wouldn't have any premium channels. I almost never watch HBO or STARZ. None of my other HD channels are copy protected at this time.

Originally Posted by sflamm

I do think it is a reasonable assumption based on history that SageTV will support the Prime.

Perhaps. They might decide they don't want to hear from angry customers that bought the HDHR-Prime before the realized their channels are copy-protected. But I don't think that's much different than the ClearQAM situation.

Originally Posted by sflamm

I see your logic - but let me remind you of Comcast history. While they were planning the digital upgrade - almost all of the encrypted-QAM channels became clear-QAM channels. And we all loved it! Until the day we woke up to find we could see almost no channel (now that was a bad morning). As part of their next phase they subsequently encrypted everything.

Well, that's sort of a special case I think. The ClearQAM shut-off was by no means sudden. I even got a heads up on when it would happen, although in practice it happened over a period of weeks.

Comcast was always pretty clear that they wanted to encrypt the expanded basic channels. They just wanted to deploy cheap DTAs instead of full-fledged cablecard-equipped STBs more. It was no surprise that they went to the FCC to ask for a waiver to let them use the built-in crypto functionality in the DTAs, and it (unfortunately) wasn't a surprise when the FCC granted the waiver.

It's a different situation now. There hasn't been anything stopping Comcast from flipping the copy protection switch.

Originally Posted by sflamm

I wouldnt assume that Comcast will not modify the copy-freely flags. If history repeats itself (and often does), once they have completed the digital roll-out nationwide they will turn to the next phase. Which may in fact include changing the copy-freely flags and other mods.

As far as I know, there is no "next phase" happening anytime soon. The phases of this last digital roll-out were fairly well-known. You might call a DOCSIS 3.0 rollout to be the next phase, but I think its moderately unlikely that they would use that opportunity to change copy-protection flags. If they want to change it, they'll change it, I just don't think that's a logical time.

But you're right, the fact is Comcast could decide to set the copy protection flags at any time, and there's almost no downside, on their end, to do so.

Originally Posted by sflamm

I havent done anything special. By definition 480p should have 4:3 aspect ratio. But I notice it looks fine - has black pillars on both sides. I suppose the Mot 6200 STB is doing that...

Hmm... That's odd. I was pretty sure the DCT6200s only added the black bars if you turned off 4:3 override (which tells the DCT6200 to output SD video at the same resolution as HD video). And I've seen other people on these boards complain about the HD-PVR getting confused when seeing 480p video, and decides that it must be from a widescreen DVD source.

[sflamm]

I added a suggestion for Nick over at SiliconDust:

http://www.silicondust.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9430

Perhaps it would be good if more folks contacted them with the suggestion.

[Mythikal]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Not bashing anything.

I would call this bashing.

Originally Posted by sflamm

The Ceton is a very bad bet...

Maybe scare tactic would be better in this case. It seems like you're trying to discourage people from even trying it. I don't see what the harm is. If it doesn't work, sell the card on ebay.

Originally Posted by sflamm

I too would love nothing more.... but you have to keep in perspective that the party can end at any moment. There are no guarantees. If you are fine with that - party on.

There are no guarantees that I'll be able to buy gas for my car tomorrow. That doesn't stop me from driving. The future of the elusive CCI flag is pure speculation at this point. Why worry about what *might* happen?

I've been through this with lovely Comcast customer service. That free card is for non-HD service. Just like SD STBs are free. At least that's what the %#@$ told me.

I just double checked my bill. Maybe I got lucky, but they told me no charge for the cablecard, and they're not charging me for the cablecard.

[reggie14]

sflamm-

That suggestion has come up on the SiliconDust forums before.

Honestly, I'm a bit torn. On the one hand it seems like a good idea, since it will help inform confused potential customers. On the other hand, I already know what channels I can get, and I don't want to draw attention to that.

[sflamm]

On the other hand, I already know what channels I can get, and I don't want to draw attention to that.

I hear you loud and clear

On the flip side - for most folks it is difficult to figure out what channels are "copy freely". And as we have beaten to death - it can change at any time.

Take our experience with the HDHR and clearQAM. Every once and a while Comcast would move channels around or temporarily encrypt something by accident. Having this added to the Channel Guide would really help that.

I also think there are two big advantages to recording the raw data feed: 1) mpeg2 content is easier to work with for comskip and transcoding purposes, and 2) there's something to be said for recording the digital feed, rather than going through another round of lossy compression.

Excellent points. Maybe ShowAnalyzer will work as well as it once did.

None of my other HD channels are copy protected at this time.

How did you figure out which ones were copy protected? Did you use the STB diagnostics?

but I think its moderately unlikely that they would use that opportunity to change copy-protection flags. If they want to change it, they'll change it, I just don't think that's a logical time.

Let's hope so. I'd like to have a Prime if that's the case. Complexity is greatly reduced and reliability will be excellent if the HDHRs are any indication - which I'm pretty positive they are.

Hmm... That's odd. I was pretty sure the DCT6200s only added the black bars if you turned off 4:3 override (which tells the DCT6200 to output SD video at the same resolution as HD video). And I've seen other people on these boards complain about the HD-PVR getting confused when seeing 480p video, and decides that it must be from a widescreen DVD source.

Need to go back through my settings and double check. I've read those complaints too - curious what is going on ...

There are no guarantees that I'll be able to buy gas for my car tomorrow. That doesn't stop me from driving. The future of the elusive CCI flag is pure speculation at this point. Why worry about what *might* happen?

Simply a question of not wanting to spend $400 for something that might not work. I'll probably end up doing it anyway - as you point out the benefits probably out weigh the risks.