A few Newb Questions Before I Buy

[epictetus]

My contemplated setup: I have Dish Network and am building a powerful HTPC/NAS combo using Windows 7 and the latest Sandy Bridge processor with plenty of storage. The board is Mini ATX and its two expansion slots are tentatively going to used for a video card and a RAID controller (ie, no more expansion slots for capture cards). The NAS will run the latest Windows Home Server.

The questions:
Do I have this right: if I install Sage TV Media Center on the Windows 7 HTPC connected to the primary TV, I don’t need any other hardware or software for that TV other than a USB-UIRT? The Sage TV acts as a server pulling off any movies/photos that are stored on the PC that I want to view, and the HD300 is only needed for secondary TVs?

I’ve read several comments on the AVS Forum that to capture my Dish programs, I need the HD PVR (is that the Hauppauge?). If the Sage Media Center records and saves programs, why would I need the extra hardware?

Here is what I am considering buying for the new system: SageTV Media Center, USB-UIRT, and the Hauppauge unit. Would you suggest anything more or less to have a really functional setup, especially anything vital that would be needed to eventually ditch Dish altogether?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[PiX64]

First off, Welcome! you will love your decision to go with SageTV!

Do I have this right: if I install Sage TV Media Center on the Windows 7 HTPC connected to the primary TV, I don’t need any other hardware or software for that TV other than a USB-UIRT? The Sage TV acts as a server pulling off any movies/photos that are stored on the PC that I want to view, and the HD300 is only needed for secondary TVs?

The sage server can also be used as a client, yes. when running in service mode the sage software will run in the background of your htpc. when firing up the client, it acts just the same as if you were running a client on another machine on your network. It connects to the sage backend and you are up and ready to go. You will need the usbuirt to change channels, and probably control the IR commands to your dishnetwork box. HD300 is for any additional TV that you would like to connect to the central sagetv backend server.

you also have the option of running pc's at the TV and buying the sageTV client software rather than HD300 hardware. Placeshifter is also an option..more on that later if you want.

I’ve read several comments on the AVS Forum that to capture my Dish programs, I need the HD PVR (is that the Hauppauge?). If the Sage Media Center records and saves programs, why would I need the extra hardware?

SageTV is the server software that will manager your recordings, schedule your recordings, record content, catalog it, make it available to all TV's/devices, etc. but it needs to get the content from somewhere. This is where Capture cards or Capture devices come in. int he case of dish you will have a STB which you will need to use to tune the channel fromt he dish and start playing it. Sage will use a capture card such as the HD-PVR or the new Colossus to capture that content and store it on your local harddrives. It is then available to any device connected to your SageTV backend.

Here is what I am considering buying for the new system: SageTV Media Center, USB-UIRT, and the Hauppauge unit. Would you suggest anything more or less to have a really functional setup, especially anything vital that would be needed to eventually ditch Dish altogether?

This really depends on what you want to do with your sage system. the hauppauge will allow you to record 1 stream at a time. so that means if you are recording a show, you cannot be watching live tv. if you want to be able to record multiple shows, and watch livetv at the same time you will need more capture cards and more STB's from dish. Most people do a combination of TV sources. for example if you have Cable Modem, you will most likely be able to get QAM for free which contains your local channels and a few other in HD. to capture this content and make it available in sage you would need something like the HDHomeRun from Silicondust. others like myself go the antenna route and receive free Over-The-Air HDTV. i have 2 hdhr's for a total for 4 tuners capturing my free OTA content.

If you are interested in things such as netflix, hulu, etc then there are plugins which allow you to connect to a playon server (seperatesoftware nonindependent of sage, and not supported by sage (3rd party)) for this you would need to buy the playon server, and install EP's awesome plugin..

hope that helps a little.

~PiX64

*Forgot 1 thing. From the highlevel specs you gave, it seems like your server setup will be more than adequate.

[jptheripper]

Yes remember you need one capture device per stream (some devices are dual tuner).

So if you want to record 4 HD streams you would need 4 settop boxes, 4 hauppauge HD PVRS, and 2 usb-uirts (each can control up to 3 devices).

[epictetus]

Thanks PiX64. Your post raised a few more questions in my newb mind.

"SageTV is the server software that will . . . record content, catalog it, make it available to all TV's/devices, etc. but it needs to get the content from somewhere." I take then that Sage will not record content that I am playing live from my Dish stb. I suppose it could do what the Hauppauge does, but it doesn't. Is that right? What content does it record, then? These are probably really dumb questions.


"The hauppauge will allow you to record 1 stream at a time. so that means if you are recording a show, you cannot be watching live tv. if you want to be able to record multiple shows, and watch livetv at the same time you will need more capture cards and more STB's from dish." My Dish DVR will allows me to record one show while I watch another, or record two shows while I watch a recorded show. Can the Hauppauge record one while I'm viewing another on my STB? Sounds like you're more a fan of the HDHR than the Hauppauge.

[epictetus]

"So if you want to record 4 HD streams you would need 4 settop boxes, 4 hauppauge HD PVRS, and 2 usb-uirts (each can control up to 3 devices)."

Yikes, thanks jp. That put it in stark clarity for me.

[joematt]

Ditch DishTV, get cable along with HDHomeRun PRIME and Windows Media Center (free in Windows 7).

SageTV may or may not be able to use the HDHomeRun PRIME see this forum post.

[jptheripper]

Originally Posted by epictetus

"So if you want to record 4 HD streams you would need 4 settop boxes, 4 hauppauge HD PVRS, and 2 usb-uirts (each can control up to 3 devices)."

Yikes, thanks jp. That put it in stark clarity for me.

Right. Your STB is a "source". The Hauppuage HD PVR is a "capture device", meaning it can capture an input stream from a source (including live).

Be also aware, the usb-uIRt is "IR", the dual dish boxes have one IR remote and one RF remote. However, there are other tuning options for the 2nd tuner. Many users here opt for single tuner boxes for that reason.

[epictetus]

Thanks joe, never heard of it. I'll explore. So many ways to go.

[joematt]

The HDHR Prime is the cheaper way to go. The 3 tuner is only $249.95 while the HD-PVR for one channel is ~ $190 and you would need three of them along with 3 sat boxes.

[PiX64]

Be aware of the hdhr prime. there is no official support at this time from sage. there may be some work arounds and such, but nothing official. I would also recommend that before making a decision based on the fact that hdhr prime is supported in WMC7 look at al lthe limitations that WMC has. there are many posts out there in this forum on people who have converted, and why.

I think what you should do first is assess what your TV needs are.
- Do you need HD Premium channels, or are Local HD channels ok?
- do you need premium content like TNT, TBS, EPSN?
- How many recordings do you feel you will be scheduled and recording at any given time?
- How many users do you have in your household?
- how many concurrent TV sessions will you have?

[epictetus]

"Your STB is a "source". The Hauppuage HD PVR is a "capture device", meaning it can capture an input stream from a source (including live)."

Thanks again, jp. So anything I watch live on my Dish stb, including things I've recorded there first, is a source I can capture with the HDPVR. Ok, here's the really dumb question: why can't I save (capture) it using Sage, and if I can't capture Dish programs I'm watching live with Sage, what can I save in Sage?

[epictetus]

PiX64, we're used to a boatload of channels from Dish. We watch a lot of movies and some of us need ESPN. TCM is a must also. Don't watch a lot of the local HD channels. Sounds like we can record as many shows as we want on the Dish DVR and then capture them as we view them, which will probably work out ok for a start. Am I understanding this correctly now?

Joe, I checked out your idea and realized that it only works with cable. The only cable provider around here is Comcast, and there's no way I'm going back to those jerks. So your solution, while it sounds great, is not feasible for us.

[panteragstk]

For using sage as your dvr/primary viewing source you need to forget the fact that dish supplies you with a dvr. The dish stb's only function will be to tune to a channel and output the data (audio/video) to the HD-PVR for sage to record. You would then view it in sagetv.

Your questions sounds like you would record programs to the dish dvr, then capture them in sage with the hd-pvr while you watch them.

Am I correct?

[PiX64]

Originally Posted by epictetus

PiX64, we're used to a boatload of channels from Dish. We watch a lot of movies and some of us need ESPN. TCM is a must also. Don't watch a lot of the local HD channels. Sounds like we can record as many shows as we want on the Dish DVR and then capture them as we view them, which will probably work out ok for a start. Am I understanding this correctly now?

Joe, I checked out your idea and realized that it only works with cable. The only cable provider around here is Comcast, and there's no way I'm going back to those jerks. So your solution, while it sounds great, is not feasible for us.

theoretically your proposal would work, but it would get a little funky with the data that you want to watch.. what im ean is if you are recording things to the Dish DVR using the program guide, and then want to "capture" it using the HDPVR, you would have to have a way to initiate the data transfer and then have sage understand what you are trying to get it to do...not really teh way it is setup to work.

...I guess you would have to manually start the STB recording to playback, and then simultaneously tell the capture device that you are ready to record and it shoudl start recording what you are passing to it. you will be left with an untagged file of some sort, and sage wouldn't know what to do with it from a metadata perspective...but theoretically its possible.

[jptheripper]

Even more so, the lag between keypresses on the DVR showing up (after the buffer) 5-10 seconds later woul dbe intolerable.

To sum up:

Sage Becomes the DVR software. The HD PVR (for HD Capture) becomes the DVR hardware. and the satelite box is still the "source" decoding the signal from the dish.

[epictetus]

Thanks to you all. I'm convinced now how important the capture devices are and how many I will need. You've headed me in the right direction.

[JerryB]

Can you get local stations over the air with an antenna? If so, I'd recommend a mixed setup in order to increase the number of tuners feeding signals into SageTV while limiting the number of Satellite Boxes/HD PVRs and their associated cost. Specifically, I use an HDHR, which has two tuners, to watch/record local channels in high-def (without needing a cable/satellite box to decrypt these channels) and and a cable box connect to and HD PVR to watch/record the encrypted non-local and/or premium channels. This setup is cheaper than using a cable/satellite box plus HD PVR for each input source and provides better quality for the local channels since there is a slight loss in quality as the signal is first decoded by the cable/satellite box and then reencoded by the HD PVR.