Narflex please keep fighting for client licenses

[crusing]

Please convince Google that it would be OK to sell or give away the client licenses. Those of us dependent on the extenders need a path forward if our extenders die. If I could buy HD300's at a reasonable price it wouldnt be a problem, but as it is if any of my HD300's die I will have to abandon SageTV as I have no PC client licenses.

Please? Pretty Please?

[mayamaniac]

He already is fighting or figuring out how to address the client license problem. My guess is selling new client licenses is not an option. Google has to give it out for free, similar to the special exe's for the server, or remove the client license requirement with some other method. I think that is the dilemma.

[dealsdyker]

Originally Posted by crusing

Please convince Google that it would be OK to sell or give away the client licenses. Those of us dependent on the extenders need a path forward if our extenders die. If I could buy HD300's at a reasonable price it wouldnt be a problem, but as it is if any of my HD300's die I will have to abandon SageTV as I have no PC client licenses.

Please? Pretty Please?

+1. Except I would add more "pretty pretty" please.

[GMan78]

Narflex,

I hesitate to point this out as you undoubtedly already philosophically embrace the issue, but to unify the cry for help on creating a means to obtain client licenses I submit the following;

1. The value and market position of SageTV was not singularly the result of the good folks at SageTV, rather the sum of its parts; SageTV, vendors, custom developers, and users alike created the value which led Google to make a purchase decision which you obvioulsy found favorable enough to consider worthy of a yet unexplained and without warning scuttle of our beloved home media solution. Surely, the simplest consideration for our investment in your "vision" is to give us a chance to "complete" ours.
   
2. Due to market based pricing (you competed against Windows Media Center (and others), a freely distrbuted application and did so successfully through innovation), it's acknowledged SageTV did not realize huge revenue streams from individual users, but that does not mean we were not investing at signifcant levels. Hardware, third party software, and hundreds of hours of our individual time was spent because we believed in your vision and trusted that SageTV would be there to shepherd us through our own unique vision of the perfect home media system.

Myself, I am in the midst of a basement remodel where upon completion I was going to add 2-3 more clients. Had there been even a week's warning, I would have purchased those in advance even though I am months away from actually needing to use them.

Make no mistake, we are all happy for you, as you have now joined the ranks of entreprenuers in pursuit of those rewards incumbent of a successful venture. We are also happy to pursue a Google "rebranding" of SageTV provided the fundamentals of the application remain true to their legacy (i.e. not restricted to cloud computing only). But in light of little to no information regarding a possible SaGoogleTV solution many of us are panicked about our deeply invested platforms.

PLEASE, in spite of the fact that you have no obligation to do so....PLEASE find a way to allow existing customers to expand their client license base...I seriously/desperately want to spend more time with my family and not have to "re-engineer" a new solution from scratch...this hobby is fantastic, but the ROI (i.e. time) is beginning to exceed my grasp!

In humble appreciation for all you have done, my best wishes and warm regards for your future and that of all my fellow SageTV community users.

George

[twills]

^ +1

[Fuzzy]

In the end, he'll either release some method of adding clients, or people will just do it illegitimately. The unfortunate part of a product that can so easily become a part of a family's home. I know for us, Sage is as important as the electricity that powers it...

[OneOfMany]

Hopefully he does. I have two more systems waiting for them.

Grant

[thestig]

In the end, he'll either release some method of adding clients, or people will just do it illegitimately. The unfortunate part of a product that can so easily become a part of a family's home. I know for us, Sage is as important as the electricity that powers it...

Hopefully it won't come to that. I see some sites selling OEM licenses. Is that legal? How can they sell them alone, without any hardware?

Check my post here. This might be an viable solution:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...t=56225&page=7

[BobbyDing]

I see some sites selling OEM licenses.

Wow. I just did a search for "SageTV Licenses". I had never seen those before. All selling (or supposedly selling) V6. I'm guessing they are scams to get your CC info. Or selling illegal keys. Probably both. I hope nobody gets desperate enough to try them.

Bobby

[xia]

I might not br as eloquent as GMan78,
But I'm in a similar situation of renovating a house and having half invested in SageTv (server and 2xHD300). Living in France, I have have even less of a market to find used hd300 so I'm will soon be in need of a solution for the future of my install.
So pretty please, try to work something with google for all of us stranded with half finished setups.

Thanks
Alex

[GMan78]

Would someone like to take a stab at speculating why it is "more" difficult for Jeff/Google to release a means to distribute client licenses to existing customers than it was to allow those that had not yet upgraded a free upgrade path to V7? Is it a technical matter, business, legal, or some combination thereof?

Why can't Jeff just open up the support request line for 10 days and accept email requests from each of us wishing to complete our SageTV "vision". Included would be our registration information and the number of license keys required...who loses in that situation? Thoughts?

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by GMan78

Would someone like to take a stab as speculating why it is "more" difficult for Jeff/Google to release a means to distribute client licenses to existing customers than it was to allow those that had not yet upgraded a free upgrade path? Is it a technical matter, business, legal, or some combination thereof?

As the V5/V6 clients were already able to upgrade to SageTV7, I'd imagine that STV7 already knew the algorithm for key generation & validation for those versions. As such it was a simple matter of flipping a couple lines of code when a valid (legacy) license was used, and that fix was done.

Whereas with the client issue, a bit more is needing to be changed/adjusted as to how the server and client interact with each other and validate things.

Why can't Jeff just open up the support request line for 10 days and accept email requests from each of us wishing to complete our SageTV "vision". Included would be our registration information and the number of license keys required...who loses in that situation? Thoughts?

1) Manpower/time intensive.
2) Only fixes things in the short-run, does nothing for people after that window closes, and brings up other issues regarding quantity of keys being issues and other various things. If a more "permanent" fix is likely to be made, this solution shouldn't even be on the priority list.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by GMan78

Why can't Jeff just open up the support request line for 10 days and accept email requests from each of us wishing to complete our SageTV "vision". Included would be our registration information and the number of license keys required...who loses in that situation? Thoughts?

That would be an open invitation for scalpers to request more licenses than they need, wait 10 days until the offer expires, then turn around and sell the extra licenses on eBay.

Seems to me any scheme that makes a limited number of new client licenses available is vulnerable to the same sort of scam. The only way I can see to avoid abuse of this sort is to eliminate the need for client licenses altogether, so there's no scarce commodity to hoard or scalp.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

That would be an open invitation for scalpers to request more licenses than they need, wait 10 days until the offer expires, then turn around and sell the extra licenses on eBay.

Seems to me any scheme that makes a limited number of new client licenses available is vulnerable to the same sort of scam. The only way I can see to avoid abuse of this sort is to eliminate the need for client licenses altogether, so there's no scarce commodity to hoard or scalp.

Then there's the thought that if something isn't for sale, it has no intrinsic value, and as such, cannot be stolen... ;-)

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Then there's the thought that if something isn't for sale, it has no intrinsic value, and as such, cannot be stolen... ;-)

Like, say, the Mona Lisa, the Crown Jewels, King Tut's riches, etc. ?

Price rarely equals value, but frequently the 2 terms are used incorrectly and interchangeably. As someone who trades equities and commodities, I can assure you this is the case, day in, day out. Price is nothing more than the instantaneous intersection of supply and demand. Value, on the other hand, is often far different than price, and its determination is open to many forms of computation and interpretation.

If you don't believe me, look at the tech stock boom/crash (anyone remember that stupid Pets.com sock puppet and how they were going to make money UPS'ing you bags of dog food?) or the housing boom/crash. Go back to Holland several hundred years ago and look at the tulip bulb fiasco.

I'm with Gman. If you have a registered, paid-for version of Sage server, or were on trial prior to/during the takeover allow the people with their foot in the door one reasonable last chance to step inside, complete their systems, and maybe have a backup HD300, an extra remote, etc. Limits are fine. Unless you are Bill Gates you probably don't need more than 5-10 clients or extenders.

:-)

[Fuzzy]

Those are one of a kind physical items, that have an intrinsic value, AND a current owner. Theft of them involves removing that property form the control of the current owner. SageTV Clients, on the other hand, are more accurately described as abandonware. US Courts have actually made explicit exemptions to the DMCA for products that are no longer available, allowing the copy protection themes (like sagetv's client licenses) to be bypassed legally.

[GMan78]

At the end of the day there is no longer a market for SageTV. Either you own a SageTV Server today, or not. If you do then you should be allowed to complete your system (this is especially true for those that have spent many months or years fine tuning their vision of the perfect home media system). The value of additional licenses to those individuals is enourmous...for the rest that missed the ship before it sailed...well my deepest sympathies for you brothers and sisters, because for one brief shining moment there was a commerical solution that nailed the requirement for a DIY custom home media solution.

Now, Jeff...about those licenses...I'll be happy no matter what solution you may bring to those of us that already have registered product...I suppose I would prefer that the license requirement be lifted altogether so we can expand our systems in the months and years to come with impunity, but I am afraid the technical challenges may discourage the effort. That's why it seems the path of least resistance is to simply issue keys using your established and well understood key distribution system. My .02.

Sure would be nice to know if you are working towards any kind of solution. Please, pretty please??? My finger's just itching to click on a bunch of "happy, happy, joy, joy" emoticons at the sight of some postive announcement related to client licenses.

There is one silver lining to this whole thing, when my friends come over and see my totally rocking media system running SageTV and "Phoenix" I don't have to worry that they are going to beg me to install a system for them at their homes..."sorry, bud...they don't sell this software anymore".

[IVB]

Originally Posted by GMan78

There is one silver lining to this whole thing, when my friends come over and see my totally rocking media system running SageTV and "Phoenix" I don't have to worry that they are going to beg me to install a system for them at their homes..."sorry, bud...they don't sell this any software anymore".

Might I advise using the following line:

"Sorry, its by invitation only, and no more members are allowed."

[GMan78]

Originally Posted by IVB

Might I advise using the following line:

"Sorry, its by invitation only, and no more members are allowed."

Right IVB, I'll agree to that, only it must be spoken whilst sipping a cup of tea, extending the right pinky finger, and raising the left eyebrow when spoken".

[davephan]

It's been about 1/2 a month since the last Narflex posting. I think hope is fading for any solutions to the SageTV client licensing problem.

Dave