Narflex please keep fighting for client licenses

[cncb]

Originally Posted by thestig

Taken from the bid list of one of the cancelled auctions:
Explanation: Sorry, apparently I'm not allowed to sell the software so I updated the listing.

I'm also curious to know how anyone can know for sure this was the result of Google's action.

I can explain this one because it was my listing bundling the licenses with the hardware. I removed the licenses from the listing due to a message from SHS (an admin on this forum) warning/threatening lawsuits if I sold the licenses. I don't think he/she works for Sage/Google and was likely exaggerating but one thing I don't want is any trouble from a company like Google.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Considering they've probably closed down their old office after the purchase, as well as packed up their old homes so they could move to where Google wants them, they're still in the "getting settled" stage at their new locale.

Further, it is entirely possible Google said "Sure you can do that, but don't use our time on it(or make it a 20% project)." So with all the move related and "welcome to Google" orientation stuff they're probably going through, a slow response is probably to be expected right now.

That people saw the fast turn around they did on the servers is remarkable, IMO.

It's all speculation, although the last Narflex post was on June 24, 2011, which was 19 days, closing in on three weeks. Narflex posts an average of 1.76 posts per day. I think the lack of any posts and total silence speaks volumes. I think the silence is being dictated by Google. The silences does not do anyone any good, it just creates ill will. If Jeff was too busy, I think Google probably has many people on their staff with the time to post a response. I believe the silence is intentional.


Dave

[Savage1701]

"blah blah blah" - Yep, you hit the nail on the head. Good to know which companies are in bed with each other.

And again, boy oh boy, we know for certain all those "OEM" versions of DVD software and such are oh-so legit, so it must be Ebay's eagle-eyed fraud team at work.

Thanks for the post Graywolf.

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by cncb

I can explain this one because it was my listing bundling the licenses with the hardware. I removed the licenses from the listing due to a message from SHS (an admin on this forum) warning/threatening lawsuits if I sold the licenses. I don't think he/she works for Sage/Google and was likely exaggerating but one thing I don't want is any trouble from a company like Google.

Wow, that's a really friendly attitude towards a legitimate seller.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by Savage1701

Wow, that's a really friendly attitude towards a legitimate seller.

Final nail in the coffin, if you ask me. "Lawsuits" if people sell their paid-for licenses. *U GOOGL - wonder if that's an available personalized license plate in my state?

"we're killng the product, screwing you, and double screwing you by threatening you against getting your remaining value back out of your purchase." Keyword: YOUR PURCHASE. I'm imagining it's in the EULA, someplace. Not dignifying them by looking through it right now, but I suppose it contains the clause "non-exclusive, non-transferrable right to use". Which would put them legally in the right, but morally, ethic...nevermind. Large corporation.

[sleonard]

SHS does not work for either Sage or Google. He can warn you about a possible (imagined) lawsuit over selling licenses but cannot do anything at all about it. I say Sage and Google are perfectly capable of protecting their licenses if they care to. SHS should be ignored in this case.

S

[bunch92]

This situation is turning into a farce .... or even worse, into one of these Greek tragedies where everyone dies at the end

[speck55]

Originally Posted by sleonard

SHS does not work for either Sage or Google. He can warn you about a possible (imagined) lawsuit over selling licenses but cannot do anything at all about it. I say Sage and Google are perfectly capable of protecting their licenses if they care to. SHS should be ignored in this case.

S

That's actually good to know. 2 questions, then (and I am asking not for the sake of being argumentative)- 1. Is SHS then just another forum member, and we are POSITIVE they have no pull in this situation? 2. If not a Soogle employee/agent, what interest would this person have in whether or not a license is transferred between parties?

I ask this as I look to purchase additional licenses via any means necessary, now that I've learned that a Sage Server license can act as a client by starting the .exe with the "-client and" "-connect ip.add.rr.ess" parameters.

As for Soogle protecting their licenses, I'm almost given the impression they couldn't care less about the retail SageTV exe's (client or server) or HDx00 hardware that's already out there, as long as they accomplish their goal (which can only be to either (a) kill off a competing product or (b) integrate some portion of the code/IP into their existing abortion of a product, or both. Existing licenses, exe's, hardware -- has anyone had to obtain warranty on an HDx00 unit since this debacle began? Were you able to?

[speck55]

Originally Posted by bunch92

This situation is turning into a farce .... or even worse, into one of these Greek tragedies where everyone dies at the end

Or at least where everyone finds out Soogle pushed the flush handle on the toilet with your money/expandability in the bowl, then plunged real hard to make sure there was no way to retrieve it.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by sleonard

SHS does not work for either Sage or Google. He can warn you about a possible (imagined) lawsuit over selling licenses but cannot do anything at all about it. I say Sage and Google are perfectly capable of protecting their licenses if they care to. SHS should be ignored in this case.

S

The message could have been as simple as "watch out selling those licenses, you may get sued" and nothing more.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by davephan

It's all speculation, although the last Narflex post was on June 24, 2011, which was 19 days, closing in on three weeks. Narflex posts an average of 1.76 posts per day. I think the lack of any posts and total silence speaks volumes. I think the silence is being dictated by Google. The silences does not do anyone any good, it just creates ill will. If Jeff was too busy, I think Google probably has many people on their staff with the time to post a response. I believe the silence is intentional.


Dave

Agree completely. Opus4's last post was on June 22nd. I think they have been google gagged and the existing SageTV user base has been abandoned.

[BarkOLounger]

Originally Posted by speck55

has anyone had to obtain warranty on an HDx00 unit since this debacle began? Were you able to?

I did last week for a broken remote control. It took a few days to receive an answer, but i got an RMA number and will be shipping the remote back for a replacement this weekend.

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by speck55

That's actually good to know. 2 questions, then (and I am asking not for the sake of being argumentative)- 1. Is SHS then just another forum member, and we are POSITIVE they have no pull in this situation? 2. If not a Soogle employee/agent, what interest would this person have in whether or not a license is transferred between parties?

I ask this as I look to purchase additional licenses via any means necessary, now that I've learned that a Sage Server license can act as a client by starting the .exe with the "-client and" "-connect ip.add.rr.ess" parameters.

As for Soogle protecting their licenses, I'm almost given the impression they couldn't care less about the retail SageTV exe's (client or server) or HDx00 hardware that's already out there, as long as they accomplish their goal (which can only be to either (a) kill off a competing product or (b) integrate some portion of the code/IP into their existing abortion of a product, or both. Existing licenses, exe's, hardware -- has anyone had to obtain warranty on an HDx00 unit since this debacle began? Were you able to?

SHS is just another forum member. He does run his own HTPC forum but that is seperate from Sage and Google. OTOH, just like any other member he could send Sage/Google an email and tattle on you.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

The message could have been as simple as "watch out selling those licenses, you may get sued" and nothing more.

I agree and think that is probably what SHS was doing. Doesn't change what I said though.

S

[cncb]

Originally Posted by sleonard

SHS is just another forum member. He does run his own HTPC forum but that is seperate from Sage and Google. OTOH, just like any other member he could send Sage/Google an email and tattle on you.

I figured as much but didn't want to take any chances. He seems to be on a quest to prevent anyone from selling licenses and seems to assume Jeff is doing the same: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...2&postcount=17

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by sleonard

SHS is just another forum member. He does run his own HTPC forum but that is seperate from Sage and Google. OTOH, just like any other member he could send Sage/Google an email and tattle on you.

If you take a look, SHS is a Moderator for the Sage TV forums. Not the same level as Opus 4 who is the Administrator of the forum but not just another forum member either.

Gerry

[speck55]

Originally Posted by bunch92

This situation is turning into a farce .... or even worse, into one of these Greek tragedies where everyone dies at the end

Originally Posted by BarkOLounger

I did last week for a broken remote control. It took a few days to receive an answer, but i got an RMA number and will be shipping the remote back for a replacement this weekend.

If you don't mind my curiosity, were you given a SageTV address or a Google address to ship-to? Did the reply come from @sagetv.com or @google.com?

[BobbyDing]

I'm guessing that the SageTv folks have started actually working/coding for their new bosses, and have left the forum to the moderators to keep the peace and see that things don't get all Wild West. I doubt we'll be hearing from Jeff anymore, except for any occasional announcements that might be relevant to Sage Users, or at least the forum members.

As to the sale of licenses, the EULA is pretty straight forward, and perhaps there is a reason (withing the contract of the sale to Google) that they would still care about it. Perhaps Google is planning to use the same licensing structure in Google Media Center, so that previous Sage TV users are automatically grandfathered in with their present licenses. That's just a fantasy I'm entertaining!!

As to eBay'd licenses, a quick story. My wife is an autocad drafter by trade. She did a fairly detailed drawing ( took her 2 months) of the WDW train station for me as a birthday present and gave me 2 large color laser plotted copies. I had one framed and the other I sold on ebay for $30. Two weeks later the guy I sold it to was re selling a bunch of blue print copies. A few weeks later there were several sellers selling blueprints of the drawing my wife had done. Some had even added official looking borders and a title block to the original, and were selling them as "Offical" WDW copies. My point is that once you sell your license, it could end up being resold a thousand times over. And there's no telling at what point Google might step in. I wouldn't want my name and license out there in that case. It's not worth the few bucks I could make rite now.

Just some thoughts.

Bobby

[speck55]

Originally Posted by BobbyDing

I'm guessing that the SageTv folks have started actually working/coding for their new bosses, and have left the forum to the moderators to keep the peace and see that things don't get all Wild West. I doubt we'll be hearing from Jeff anymore, except for any occasional announcements that might be relevant to Sage Users, or at least the forum members.

As to the sale of licenses, the EULA is pretty straight forward, and perhaps there is a reason (withing the contract of the sale to Google) that they would still care about it. Perhaps Google is planning to use the same licensing structure in Google Media Center, so that previous Sage TV users are automatically grandfathered in with their present licenses. That's just a fantasy I'm entertaining!!

As to eBay'd licenses, a quick story. My wife is an autocad drafter by trade. She did a fairly detailed drawing ( took her 2 months) of the WDW train station for me as a birthday present and gave me 2 large color laser plotted copies. I had one framed and the other I sold on ebay for $30. Two weeks later the guy I sold it to was re selling a bunch of blue print copies. A few weeks later there were several sellers selling blueprints of the drawing my wife had done. Some had even added official looking borders and a title block to the original, and were selling them as "Offical" WDW copies. My point is that once you sell your license, it could end up being resold a thousand times over. And there's no telling at what point Google might step in. I wouldn't want my name and license out there in that case. It's not worth the few bucks I could make rite now.

Just some thoughts.

Bobby

If you were to legitimately sell ("transfer") your license, and someone resold it, that would be on them - you've destroyed your installation, not sold your key more than once, and have documentation that you followed all those protocols, I can't see how that wouldn't be considered out of your control, but you'd be in violation of the "non-transferrable" clause. I just have a huge problem imagining why anyone at Soogle would care, as it appears they clearly intend to shelve this incarnation anyways. They are no longer selling licenses, nor do they seem to intend to. If I were offered a 1 time opportunity to buy extenders/client licenses, I'd buy what I thought I needed plus one or two, and be a happy camper.

But eBay and other places -- they sell knock offs like you speak of every day from iphone accessories to reprinted "autographed" prints, without paying the copyright owner a penny of royalties. It's what we face. And are generally sub-par, so both the buyer and the rightful owner suffer. I just wish there were legitimate ways to obtain genuine keys. I was happy to support Jeff and the community.

[BarkOLounger]

Originally Posted by speck55

If you don't mind my curiosity, were you given a SageTV address or a Google address to ship-to? Did the reply come from @sagetv.com or @google.com?

The reply came from sagetv-support@google.com. The address didn't say google or sage, it said to send it to George and gave a Santa Monica address.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by speck55

If you were to legitimately sell ("transfer") your license, and someone resold it, that would be on them - you've destroyed your installation, not sold your key more than once, and have documentation that you followed all those protocols, I can't see how that wouldn't be considered out of your control, but you'd be in violation of the "non-transferrable" clause. I just have a huge problem imagining why anyone at Soogle would care, as it appears they clearly intend to shelve this incarnation anyways. They are no longer selling licenses, nor do they seem to intend to. If I were offered a 1 time opportunity to buy extenders/client licenses, I'd buy what I thought I needed plus one or two, and be a happy camper.

But eBay and other places -- they sell knock offs like you speak of every day from iphone accessories to reprinted "autographed" prints, without paying the copyright owner a penny of royalties. It's what we face. And are generally sub-par, so both the buyer and the rightful owner suffer. I just wish there were legitimate ways to obtain genuine keys. I was happy to support Jeff and the community.

Look ok if they wish go this road on eBay then by all means let them go for it but like said before just don't come cry to me becuase I just give all a heads warning on what could happing or should say what can happing after I have all been down that road before and belive me it no fun dealing with it later on.

But it up to Jeff after he still has that rigth to do so even know he sold it off to google that not problem any software that was sold before the buy out still under SageTV copyright not Google.

Belive me do not wish this on any one in fact if had jeff said it was ok I would even be worry about my SageTV friends here.