My Mac Mini Sage TV Experience!

[mohanman]

Quick update on my mac mini experience (if anyone cares)

So far my mac mini works great! I have it attached via DVI to my sony plasma in my bedroom which is ideal because it makes like 0 noise. Also it doesnt have any annoying lights on the front other then one really small one to keep you up all night.

I would love to see sage client for mac os/x, as I love the operating system. It is so much more stable and easy to use then vista or xp.

I tried vista bootcamp, and although sage worked well as a client, it wasnt smooth. So I reformatted and installed XP instead. Sage client works perfectly fine now! I just need an MCE remote, as I dont like the streamzap or girder (too confusing)

Lastly, sage client doesnt seem to want to sleep well (standby). It goes into standby, but waking up the picture doesnt show up. Soo.. I decided just to leave it on all the time. It only consumes 70W idle and 110W really active which isnt bad.

I also added an eject button to the dynmaic menus in sagemc.

If anyone has any other tips let me know!
Thanks
MO!

[Alfiegerner]

This sounds great. I'm toying with the idea of getting one of these for a client and have a couple of questions.

Will the 1.66 ghz one do HD do you know?

What do you use for a remote control?

What sort of hoops do you have to jump through to get xp on it?

[mohanman]

XP is so easy to install, a kid can do it. Just download bootcamp for os/x from apple website (free) and follow the directions
It makes a partition on the hard drive, I divided the 60gb into 2 30 gb partitions. One fo os/x and the other for xp. You dont really need more hard drive space for client.

I just bought a mce remote receiver. I dont like the streamzap, so I am still waiting for it. I fixed the standby issue somehow.. now everything works great! The system will go into standby within one hour, or I can use MCE remote to go in and out of standby.. but since dont have the remote cant verify this.

the dual 1.66 can definately handle HD. I was playing lost, live tv, and upconverted dvds, fast, and no problems!

Thanks for reading!
By the way, I got the mac mini from micro center for only 499$. The 2gb upgrade memory was expensive. My thought process is Tivo costs a crap load and monthly fees, appletv is 300$ and cant do what a mac mini can do, and I hate media center because of dvr-ms

Lates!
Mo

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mohanman

XP is so easy to install, a kid can do it. Just download bootcamp for os/x from apple website (free) and follow the directions
It makes a partition on the hard drive, I divided the 60gb into 2 30 gb partitions. One fo os/x and the other for xp. You dont really need more hard drive space for client.

I just bought a mce remote receiver. I dont like the streamzap, so I am still waiting for it. I fixed the standby issue somehow.. now everything works great! The system will go into standby within one hour, or I can use MCE remote to go in and out of standby.. but since dont have the remote cant verify this.

the dual 1.66 can definately handle HD. I was playing lost, live tv, and upconverted dvds, fast, and no problems!

Thanks for reading!
By the way, I got the mac mini from micro center for only 499$. The 2gb upgrade memory was expensive. My thought process is Tivo costs a crap load and monthly fees, appletv is 300$ and cant do what a mac mini can do, and I hate media center because of dvr-ms

Lates!
Mo

When you say the dual 1.66 can definitely handle HD, what do you mean by that? Are you driving a 720p set, or 1080p set, etc? Can you play recorded 1080i and 720p content with no stuttering? I assume this is under Windows XP.

Thanks,
Mike

[Alfiegerner]

Good news indeed. Let us know how you get on with the mce remote receiver.

$499 sounds like a great buy. In the UK the cheapest I can find a new 1.66 mac mini is £399. I don't know if anyone knows if its possible to import a mac mini from the US to the UK? i.e if if you have to pay import tax or if you can avoid it?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Alfiegerner

Good news indeed. Let us know how you get on with the mce remote receiver.

$499 sounds like a great buy. In the UK the cheapest I can find a new 1.66 mac mini is £399. I don't know if anyone knows if its possible to import a mac mini from the US to the UK? i.e if if you have to pay import tax or if you can avoid it?

Too bad the rebate at micro center ended yesterday. I might have pulled the trigger, though the HD extender still seems the way to go. No DVD drive in that though..

thanks
Mike

[Alfiegerner]

That's what I'm trying to weigh up - mac mini vs HD extender. Are you sure there won't be a dvd drive in it?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Alfiegerner

That's what I'm trying to weigh up - mac mini vs HD extender. Are you sure there won't be a dvd drive in it?

The one on display at CES did not.

Thanks,
Mike

[Alfiegerner]

Originally Posted by mikesm

The one on display at CES did not.

Thanks,
Mike

A shame that. Thanks for the info.

[mohanman]

I have my plasma set at 720p. I dont have a 1080 p plasma. But with dual 1.66ghz chips and 2gb memory, I dont think anything should stutter. It is a pretty well made system.

I dont know if you guys had seen elsewhere in this forum, but they are coming out with os/x client. I also saw on the websites that you can use the wii remote to work with os/x. Can you imagine using such a great device to control your home theater system?

Mo!

[rich_l]

What kind of tuner did you get for it? Will a windows USB one work? I have parallels and am really tempted, but I am unsure of the tv tuners/dvrs for the mac.

[mohanman]

I use this strictly as a client. My server (which has the tuners) is an old Alienware dhs with one ati elite and hdhomerun. So I dont have any tuners attached or in the mac mini
By the way, people were saying you cant do HD on this. I have been streaming 720p just fine to it. It defiantely cannot do 1080p without stuttering. I have yet to try 1080i, because I cant figure out how to get the monitor to go to 30hz. Maybe I will try powerstrip.

I also got the MCE remote working with an external receiver and used the irsys files from my alienware MCE computer. I had to disable the mac mini IR receiver as it was causing some occasional jumping around with the remote.

But I am very happy with my setup right now. It has been sleeping/waking fine, is quiet as hell and no annoying lights, perfect for the bedroom

Mo!

[autoboy]

Guys,

Some HD is not very demanding on systems. OTA and QAM Broadcast MPEG2 HD streams are pretty easy to play and don't require much CPU. A 1Ghz cpu is all that is really required. With a DxVA graphics card, and most are unless it is really old, a 1Ghz cpu would give you great results as long as you are using overlay. An appleTV is nothing but a 1Ghz cpu and a DxVA graphics card and it can play broadcast HD just fine. If you are getting stuttering and you have an older video card than overlay should work just fine. Most other applications use overlay as a default and this is why other applications will play your files smoothly while SageTV may stutter. Turn off VMR9 in Sage and you will get smooth playback if those other applications are also smooth (most of the time)

If you want to play broadcast HD with VMR9 than you will need a graphics card that can handle HD resolutions in VMR9. A 6600 or 7300GS are the baseline for VMR9 at 720P resolutions. Some onboard graphics systems can handle it. The 6150 and 690 are capable of 720P resolutions with VMR9. I'm also pretty sure the Intel 945 in the mac mini can also handle 720P with VMR9 because they use this chip in some Media Center machines. A computer with a 1Ghz cpu and one of these chips should be able to handle 720P with VMR9 for broadcast HD. This is proven by the appleTV.

CPU power has little to do with how capable a computer is at displaying HD video and mostly falls on the video card and player settings. However, there are some applications that use a little more cpu power. H.264 and VC-1 codecs use up more cpu power to decode and would not play on a 1Ghz cpu. If you play these kinds of files, a decent dual core cpu is required. I play downloaded h.264 on my single core 2Ghz A64 and it plays fine but dual core is recomended for full software decode of these formats. If you have some help from hardware, like the appleTV does for h.264 from its 7300 chip, than you can still use that 1Ghz cpu and get good playback.

So, don't just look at the cpu to find out if the system can play HD. Look at the video card. If you have plans to play other kinds of content, look at how demanding that content is on the cpu and whether you have hardware acceleration in the video card (remember hardware accel only works with select codecs that cost $ right now). At any rate, any new system you buy will be dual core (unless you go really budget like I like to) and will not have any problem with CPU speed on any content you can throw at it short of software decoded HD-DVD and BluRay playback. If you play in that league you probably already know what you need to play it back.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by autoboy

Guys,

Some HD is not very demanding on systems. OTA and QAM Broadcast MPEG2 HD streams are pretty easy to play and don't require much CPU. A 1Ghz cpu is all that is really required. With a DxVA graphics card, and most are unless it is really old, a 1Ghz cpu would give you great results as long as you are using overlay. An appleTV is nothing but a 1Ghz cpu and a DxVA graphics card and it can play broadcast HD just fine. If you are getting stuttering and you have an older video card than overlay should work just fine. Most other applications use overlay as a default and this is why other applications will play your files smoothly while SageTV may stutter. Turn off VMR9 in Sage and you will get smooth playback if those other applications are also smooth (most of the time)

If you want to play broadcast HD with VMR9 than you will need a graphics card that can handle HD resolutions in VMR9. A 6600 or 7300GS are the baseline for VMR9 at 720P resolutions. Some onboard graphics systems can handle it. The 6150 and 690 are capable of 720P resolutions with VMR9. I'm also pretty sure the Intel 945 in the mac mini can also handle 720P with VMR9 because they use this chip in some Media Center machines. A computer with a 1Ghz cpu and one of these chips should be able to handle 720P with VMR9 for broadcast HD. This is proven by the appleTV.

CPU power has little to do with how capable a computer is at displaying HD video and mostly falls on the video card and player settings. However, there are some applications that use a little more cpu power. H.264 and VC-1 codecs use up more cpu power to decode and would not play on a 1Ghz cpu. If you play these kinds of files, a decent dual core cpu is required. I play downloaded h.264 on my single core 2Ghz A64 and it plays fine but dual core is recomended for full software decode of these formats. If you have some help from hardware, like the appleTV does for h.264 from its 7300 chip, than you can still use that 1Ghz cpu and get good playback.

So, don't just look at the cpu to find out if the system can play HD. Look at the video card. If you have plans to play other kinds of content, look at how demanding that content is on the cpu and whether you have hardware acceleration in the video card (remember hardware accel only works with select codecs that cost $ right now). At any rate, any new system you buy will be dual core (unless you go really budget like I like to) and will not have any problem with CPU speed on any content you can throw at it short of software decoded HD-DVD and BluRay playback. If you play in that league you probably already know what you need to play it back.

Some of the confusion here is about playback formats coupled with displays.

For example, outputting 720p to 720p display is easier than a 1080i MPEG2 file playing back to a 720p display, since you have to do de-interlacing.

Can the Mac Mini play back 1080i MPEG2 flawlessly to a 720p display? I have heard mixed comments on this. I assume this is under XP, or is this under MacOS?

Thanks
Mike

[mohanman]

Well I thought I would update everyone on my mac mini experience now that it has been a few weeks. (to those that care)

First of all, I noticed stuttering with 1080i tv displayed at 1280x720. I couldnt figure out why this was, because playback on my vlc player was crisp as could be. Well I ran a 50ft cable from my router to my bedroom where the client is. The stuttering is completely gone. Perfect playback.. guess it was just the network.. sigh.

Second of all, I love it! Again, its quiet, it doesnt make any noise! And there is one small dim light in the front, no other annyoing lights. I made an eject disc item to select from the main menu as there is no eject button on the mac mini istelf.

I heard that apple has discontinued the mac mini line to concentrate on the apple tv. I dont know if that was such a great idea. But, hey for $499.00 it was a deal, and I encourage those that are looking at this to buy soon because prices will drop.

Thanks!
Happy sage user-
Mo!

[HawgGuy]

Originally Posted by mohanman

I heard that apple has discontinued the mac mini line to concentrate on the apple tv

What's your source on that? I have not heard that rumor. I would leave a pretty big hole in their low-end lineup unless they replaced it with something else.

[mohanman]

People are talking over at avsforum and mac rumors.
Probably a rumor.. not sure.

I think the ultimate setup would be to the have the mac pro, same case, but smaller and have the disc drive a slot loading on the side. It would look sweet as a rack mount.

Just imagine that in your home theater rack.

Mo

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by mohanman

Well I thought I would update everyone on my mac mini experience now that it has been a few weeks. (to those that care)

First of all, I noticed stuttering with 1080i tv displayed at 1280x720. I couldnt figure out why this was, because playback on my vlc player was crisp as could be. Well I ran a 50ft cable from my router to my bedroom where the client is. The stuttering is completely gone. Perfect playback.. guess it was just the network.. sigh.

Second of all, I love it! Again, its quiet, it doesnt make any noise! And there is one small dim light in the front, no other annyoing lights. I made an eject disc item to select from the main menu as there is no eject button on the mac mini istelf.

I heard that apple has discontinued the mac mini line to concentrate on the apple tv. I dont know if that was such a great idea. But, hey for $499.00 it was a deal, and I encourage those that are looking at this to buy soon because prices will drop.

Thanks!
Happy sage user-
Mo!

You're running this under XP right, not MacOS? Do you have any issues with suspend/wake up? Some folks have reported issues here with Sage/XP/MCE remote.

Is the video quality good? You have very little hardware assist with the intel chipset - do you have FFDShow installed, and if so, what parameters?

Have you tried Dvix/h.264 playback? I know HD won't work (not that big a deal for me since I have an R5000-HD with cable), but I like to archive old content with h.264, and was wondering if Sage had to transcode it to MPEG2 for the Mac...

Since the HD extender still hasn't shown up yet, and probably won't have a DVD in it, the mac mini seems like a great client if it has enough oomph. I am hoping that they rev the design with the nextgen chipset that has a a lot better HD support in it.

Thanks,
Mike

[mohanman]

Umm.. well lets see. I used mac mini at 1280x720. Last night I tried 1920x1080 at 60hz which played back most tv fine. I use the latest cyberlink hd decoders and ac3 filter. I have comcast HD tv with hdhomerun and get multiple channels, some 720p and some 1080i. I have also downloaded h264 files (harry potter 3 preview and 28 weeks later preview) and have them stored on my nas connected via gigabit ethernet.

I use an mce remote with usb blaster that has been working just fine, wakes and sleeps with no problems whatsover. I use XP via bootcamp.

So far 720p, and 1080i TV works just fine at 720p and 1920x1080 at 60hz. I have tried playing back the h264 1080p files which had trouble at 720p, but seemed to play back better at 1920x1080, but stuttered after the first 10-15 seconds.. but I am not sure if that is because of the network or what.

Hope that helps

Mo

[mohanman]

So, overall the mac mini has enough oomph to playback 720p and 1080i tv at 1920x1080 at 60hz according to my experience

The H264 files on the otherhand may be a problem

mo