MainLobby plugin

[CollinR]

By universal I was more thinking xAP or xPL which are open standards in home automation. These too should be supported by both Mainlobby, CQC and Homeseer already.

Still be big issue is the GUI and the massive differences between individual setups.

Homeseer is another player that hasn't been too previsouly mentioned but would be welcomed in interfacing directly into SageTV.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by CollinR

By universal I was more thinking xAP or xPL which are open standards in home automation. These too should be supported by both Mainlobby, CQC and Homeseer already.

Still be big issue is the GUI and the massive differences between individual setups.

Homeseer is another player that hasn't been too previsouly mentioned but would be welcomed in interfacing directly into SageTV.

I wouldn't hold your breath there - neither SageTV nor MainLobby support xAP or xPL, CQC has a limited xAP interface as Dean was focusing on some media stuff. I know he will be expanding the XML gateway (or writing a new xAP gateway) to address it, but it's not nearly done yet. And, given that there's not a huge demand for expanding it beyond current capabilities, I doubt it'll be moved up the priority list any more.

And something tells me SageTV would rather focus energies in the short term on that cool HD component capture stuff then xAP :-)

[CollinR]

Should be supported and are supported are two totally different things, I am suprised by what is and isn't supported from every vendor.

I don't expect a bunch of support from SageTV, it's just not their bag. They publish and provide everything these vendors need to accomplish this if they so choose to. There is no motivation to build a universal add-on, each will develop their own unless an xAP or xPL guru gets involved or the luck factor.

On the flipside SageTV could deside to become a driect competitor. I seriously doubt this but it's possible. They already have everything they need, and really in comparison with what they have achieved with video streaming and it's complexities they shouldn't be bet against in the configurability or functionality departments. Especially when just getting the basics, which is how I would guess they would do it. Basics and then the users can push it wherever they want it to go. Not to mention SageTV is cross platform just like xAP and xPL, so Linux or Mac is just as okay as Windows. I really like that and for a control system it's very logical.

[IVB]

Hmmm. Are you saying that a 3rd party should take the existing sageTV API, and create a Sage-xAP.jar "gateway" that translates the xAP commands into SageTV API calls and vice-versa?

Then, The SageTV MainLobby/CQC/vCrib/etc plugins would talk xAP to that gateway?

[CollinR]

Sure oddly enough there already exists one for freaking Tivo and MCE! However I think this is mearly for CallerID style popups, I dunno.

Also supported some interesting are:

Homeseer
Slimserver
~MCE~
Barcode scanners (for DVD/CD/and grocery inventoring)
Asterisk
WS918 Weather station
ODBC database connectivity
Homevision
xAP to/from flat file
1 Wire
x10
Command line
BSC messaging
xPL

xPL adds in:

C bus
Serial RS232&485
RFXCOM
Statnet
W800RF32
Winamp
USBUIRT
UPB
Zwave
xAP

boatload more I omitted and each has varing levels of functionality. Still something to be considered. Also obviously if xAP or xPL were supported in CQC you would instantly have plugins for all xAP and xPL devices so it's not just one plugin it's a bunch. Granted many redundent for high level softwares like Mainlobby and CQC.

The problem areas have already been solved by Rob for CQC, the x*Ps don't lend themselves to carring a bunch of payload, like all your recording history. It will however relay what you are currently watching and of course the uber basic x10/Zwave/UPB/Insteon style status messages and commands and in the other direction control SageTV to the client context level.

Still this is all stuff in the background, the STV will be very complicated. Just getting the data to the server is good but making it pretty and easy to use and blend in is a whole different ball game. Thats the part the scares me each installation will probably require Studio use to some extent or another which at this point I'll take but is uncommon for SageTV plugins now.

This is the basic schema for xPL's MCE interface.

http://wiki.xplproject.org.uk/index....#Media_Schemas

Quite extensive for a basic schema, you can add to that. Of course SageTV would get it's own schema and you can add in whatever under the sun for that.

Also an xAP/xPL app could be integrated into the application package on the SageTV extenders themselves to control even further at the client level. I don't think thats really required but the possibility is somewhat interesting.

[IVB]

Heh, good luck with that request. Perhaps Fonceur would be willing to take on the dozens->hundreds of hours to write that, get it working with stability due to how fast I hear xAP can flood a server with messages, get a SageStudio skin that'll work, etc etc.

I can't imagine there would be any interest on the CQC side. Given that it can already contol bazillions of devices directly including almost that whole list, there's no actual need to rebuild the wheel. The only thing really needed is the ability to paint an STV with the status & control over a few devices. Have SageTV tell your HA software to do something, check the current state/report the changed status back on the screen when complete, and call it a day.

But, I still think there'd be value-add in having an HA SageTV "API standard" or maybe generic plugin, so that the STV building would be simpler as you wouldn't need to learn how each package supports SageTV but slightly differently named fields/etc. Simplifying the SageStudio bit to the maximum extent, ideally a re-usable STV across HA packages would be nice.

[sportera]

Originally Posted by smoothtlk

Sportera,
What is it that you want to do that you feel you can't with MainLobby / Homeseer? and then when SageTV is in the mix?

* End Result = While watching TV or Recorded Video or DVD or Playing MP3's in home theater room (or bedroom), I want to pull up TV Guide or Main Menu, with remote control, to:

1. Review TV guide list to either change channel, record current show, schedule a TV show recording. Current video or music playing continues in a small window at bottom right corner of screen until I change a selection.

2. Change from current video or music source to another selection:
*Play DVD
*Play recorded video (home, TV, DVD, etc.)
*Play music
*Review and control home automation
*Check local weather (animated 100 & 300 mile radar, current conditions, & 5-Day Forecast
*Check Outlook calendar of Today and Month events
*Check caller ID for last caller info and last 10 caller ID log.
*System settings & configuration

SageTV gives me the above (less animated local weather radar, Outlook calendar, caller ID log, & home automation control) plus:
* Multi DTV receiver or Cable TV PVR
*TV Commercial skipping
* Automatic IMDB search
* Digital camera pictures (for review or as automated screen saver)
* Ability to use pull up all from a client PC, media extender, or via internet using Placeshifter.

And all of this is provided with single initial cost of each TV license (plugins are free) and little or no "programing". Bottom line here is I refuse to lock into a vendor that is hard to customize to my needs and continues to hit me up with "unreasonable" costs for each bell & whistle(plugins). I loved Lotus 1-2-3 (over Excel) for years until they started doing this. Now they are gone.

Again this should be taken as positive feedback to help you people at Cinemar grow.

[CollinR]

Not to put words in sportera's mouth but I would add.

On an $80 MVP connected to a $100 TV set.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by sportera

*Ability to use pull up all from a client PC, media extender, or via internet using Placeshifter.

Originally Posted by CollinR

Not to put words in sportera's mouth but I would add.

On an $80 MVP connected to a $100 TV set.

Dude, you missed that bullet

It's exactly the same as what beelzerob & I are working towards, which is to have easy HA status & control on the MVP/HDExtender from rooms I don't want a UMPC in.

[Fonceur]

Sorry, I got side-tracked by other projects, so MLSageTV got stuck in demo mode, using Nielm's web server for a few months...

Now I am more seriously looking into it. I switched from Nielm's web server to Beelzerob's latest SageCQC Home Automation Server. The initial public beta of MLSageTV (available through MLInstaller) isn't doing anything useful yet, but I'm getting there...

Thanks for all the inputs! Now let see how far I can go with this thing...

[iolaus]

Is the SageCQC plugin being discussed a generic TCP API for SageTV? If so, I'm assuming it could be used for much more than CQC, correct? It would be interesting to look into connecting NetRemote or Girder using a TCP interface. Also, is the connection 2-way?

[IVB]

Right now the SageCQC plugin in 1way, from Sage to CQC. You can render Sage data in a custom CQC screen. However, CQC has an XML gateway, which Beelzerob is in the midst of learning, so with any luck it'll be 2way within <n> months. Then we could control CQC from within Sage.

I'd still do both, but the kitchen touchscreen, cellphone, and laptops would use the CQC screen with sage stuff on it, and the HDExtenders in the H/T and MBR would display the Sage screen with CQC stuff on it.

Beelzerob will have to answer the generic bit, but I don't see how that's feasible; each package has too much custom functionality to be a useful abstraction layer. Best for fonceur to just recode it to be a SageML plugin, someone else to do a SageGirder plugin.

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by iolaus

Is the SageCQC plugin being discussed a generic TCP API for SageTV? If so, I'm assuming it could be used for much more than CQC, correct? It would be interesting to look into connecting NetRemote or Girder using a TCP interface. Also, is the connection 2-way?

Actually, Beelzerob and me did collaborate on an open source SageTCPServer, which is a more generic version of his SageCQC.jar. The official release 1.0 (with official post and documentation) will probably be in the next few weeks, though you can get access to the full source through CVS. The build 0.9.1 should be up tonight.

A lot more of the API could be exposed, but so far neither of us needed anything else... Should you decide to test it, make sure to terminate your TCP queries with "\n".

I could post pictures of the MainLobby plugin, to give you an idea of what's available through the TCP server... Though I never got a confirmation from Cinemar if they ever contacted/got authorized by SageTV to use their icons/images, like they did with SnapStream for Beyond TV icons/images...

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by IVB

Right now the SageCQC plugin in 1way, from Sage to CQC.

In the context of Girder and NetRemote, I would say that SageCQC and SageTCPSErver are 2-ways... You receive a shortened list of upcoming recordings, send a query to get detailed information about one and receive that information... I don't think that he meant to take over Girder/NetRemote from SageTV, as is planned in a next phase for CQC and MainLobby, though who knows what he had in mind...

[IVB]

Originally Posted by Fonceur

In the context of Girder and NetRemote, I would say that SageCQC and SageTCPSErver are 2-ways... You receive a shortened list of upcoming recordings, send a query to get detailed information about one and receive that information... I don't think that he meant to take over Girder/NetRemote from SageTV, as is planned in a next phase for CQC and MainLobby, though who knows what he had in mind...

Eh, oh. Ok, that's a stretch of the word "2 way" but I suppose if that's the context...

[Fuzzy]

I as of yet have not really gotten started on my HA project (still in the brainstorming/spousal permission stage), but I would have to say that the idea solution for me would also be an interface built into the SageTV U/I. The HA Software would be running on the server, with a STVi that contained the appropriate controls/displays. This would make it pretty much universal and work on any of my TV's (be it PC Client, MVP, HDExtender or the server itself). This would have the added advantage of being able to have notifications pop up onscreen while watching tv, and even be able to pull out a small sidebar on the TV with some quick access options. (Theater lighting, thermostat controls, etc.)

[beelzerob]

Typically, 2-way just means that you can get status or confirmation of commands sent. You can send commands and receive data. And in that context, yes, it is definitely 2-way.

It was a good decision to open this up to a generic TCP Server anyone can use. Fonc did most of the work by far, I just supplied the foundation basically. We'll be posting it soon, and then anyone who uses the API can have 2-way TCP control of Sage.

An added benefit is that the TCP Server does more than the current sageCQC server does....so once I get around to updating that interface, then CQC will also benefit.

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The HA Software would be running on the server, with a STVi that contained the appropriate controls/displays. This would make it pretty much universal and work on any of my TV's (be it PC Client, MVP, HDExtender or the server itself).

Well, currently the HaL guys have done something for that, beelzerob is working on a CQC version, and I'm still hoping to do it the HTML way for MainLobby.

It's unclear yet if we'll be able to load in SageTV the same HTML file that allows controlling MainLobby through iPhone/iTouch, if a slightly modified HTML version will be needed or if a full blown translation layer to native STVi format would be required... I still need to read the Studio documentation...

[Fuzzy]

AFAIK, Sage has no method of displaying any HTML in the U/I, so probably not the method you'd want to go. I suppose you could have a 3rd party program render your interface down to an image, and show that in the Sage UI. Not sure on the response time for something like this though.

[Fonceur]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

AFAIK, Sage has no method of displaying any HTML in the U/I, so probably not the method you'd want to go.

In my "gathering of information phase", I did read a post or 2 that were hinting at that, but unfortunately I can't seem to find them back and by now it's fuzzy what the context was... Or maybe those were simply talks of the miniclient.jar and I am remembering wrong.