Trying to find out the benefits of EVR verses VMR in SageTV

[mkanet]

Both take exactly the same CPU usage (around 15-25%) on a quad core Intel Nvidia 8800GT (with WHQL drivers); even slightly higher when playing back H.264 AVC 1080 media (from bluray). It dosnt matter if I use my PowerDVD 8 video decoder or sageTV video decoder. I dont have this problem with WMP and CPU usage is almost around 0%.

Also, I lose CC when using EVR.

What exactly is the benefit of EVR in sageTV at this point. I dont see ANY difference in video quality or frame rate.

Also, when using the PoweDVD 8 video decoder, if I play some of my media files, the sageTV app will simply close with no errors as soon as the spinning circle stops spining and the video starts to render.

Surely, there's gotta be some advantages to EVR. I haven't see one single advantage yet under sageTV.

[Ryokurin]

In Vista, I find that EVR is a little bit clearer than VMR, and not as jittery on some content. The jitter is a big reason why some people wanted it. Not to mention for some people its drastically helping out in processor usage.

[mkanet]

Yes, I understand the concept... and know the difference in apps like WMP and Cyberlink which uses EVR correctly with hardware acceleration. My question is what's the difference UNDER SAGETV? There's not one person who has reported that CPU usage or PQ and has changed under sageTV... plus Closed Captions stopped working as well.

Originally Posted by Ryokurin

In Vista, I find that EVR is a little bit clearer than VMR, and not as jittery on some content. The jitter is a big reason why some people wanted it. Not to mention for some people its drastically helping out in processor usage.

[SHS]

Enhanced Video Renderer dosen't have Multi-Source Substream input like VMR7/9 dose so if I unstand sdk doc rigth I think it has to be hard code.

[gplasky]

Well the funny thing nobody said there would ever be a difference in SageTV. But everybody wanted it. Everyone just assumed it would be better. And seeing this is the first implementation of it I wouldn't be holding out for too much yet. I did notice no tearing in the video where every once in a while I would notice a little. But I've also noticed in the h.264 recordings I tend to lose audio sync. I consider it a work in progress.

I've also read on some of the forums that you CAN get EVR working on XP BUT hardware acceleration doesn't function with it. So people may be better off staying with VMR9 in XP. On Vista hardware acceleration is supported with specific decoders. Cyberlink PowerDVD being one of them.

Gerry

[mkanet]

I'm not getting any EVR hardware acceleration benefits under a vanilla Vista32 machine using all WHQL'd hardware/drivers (nvidia 8800GT/Intel Quad core) under sagetv

Sitting 6 feet from my 46" 1080p LCD screen, I dont see any benefits from EVR in CPU usage, framerate, or picture quality. Under WMP/PowerDVD 8, its a different story.

Originally Posted by gplasky

Well the funny thing nobody said there would ever be a difference in SageTV. But everybody wanted it. Everyone just assumed it would be better. And seeing this is the first implementation of it I wouldn't be holding out for too much yet. I did notice no tearing in the video where every once in a while I would notice a little. But I've also noticed in the h.264 recordings I tend to lose audio sync. I consider it a work in progress.

I've also read on some of the forums that you CAN get EVR working on XP BUT hardware acceleration doesn't function with it. So people may be better off staying with VMR9 in XP. On Vista hardware acceleration is supported with specific decoders. Cyberlink PowerDVD being one of them.

Gerry

[Jesse]

Hi,

I think EVR looks ever so slightly better. That is just me. In any case, pq is not the reason I want Vista and EVR anyway.

The real reason is that I want DXVA without needing FSE. One of my clients will give smooth playback without DXVA, but cpu usage gets so high that all the fans speed up and it sounds like I have a helicopter in my family room. The bedroom client is an ancient P4 with a 7600GT AGP and will not play back HD-PVR recordings without DXVA. I cannot use Vista and VMR9 because there is no decoder (that I can find) that will enable DXVA for h.264 in Vista while using VMR9.

Ok, so I can just go back to XP and get DXVA using VMR9/FSE/ArcSoft (which is what I ended up doing). This is a problem because I like to use JRMC for music and TMT for blu-ray. I can use sagemce to launch these programs on top of sage, but FSE gets fubared when I go back to sage. This means I have to close and re-launch sage (or sometimes reboot the pc) to get things going again. This is just too clunky.

If I can get EVR with DXVA in Vista then I will have no need of FSE and I can get all this to play together nicely.

Jesse

[mkanet]

I think we're talking about two different things. What you're saying goes without saying; pretty much everyone knows that already.

I'm talking about the difference of the way sageTV uses EVR with 3rd part directshow decoder with EVR... not the same as WMP/PowerDVD or even Arcsoft... there's aleady another thread which goes into detail about this.

Originally Posted by Jesse

Hi,

I think EVR looks ever so slightly better. That is just me. In any case, pq is not the reason I want Vista and EVR anyway.

The real reason is that I want DXVA without needing FSE. One of my clients will give smooth playback without DXVA, but cpu usage gets so high that all the fans speed up and it sounds like I have a helicopter in my family room. The bedroom client is an ancient P4 with a 7600GT AGP and will not play back HD-PVR recordings without DXVA. I cannot use Vista and VMR9 because there is no decoder (that I can find) that will enable DXVA for h.264 in Vista while using VMR9.

Ok, so I can just go back to XP and get DXVA using VMR9/FSE/ArcSoft (which is what I ended up doing). This is a problem because I like to use JRMC for music and TMT for blu-ray. I can use sagemce to launch these programs on top of sage, but FSE gets fubared when I go back to sage. This means I have to close and re-launch sage (or sometimes reboot the pc) to get things going again. This is just too clunky.

If I can get EVR with DXVA in Vista then I will have no need of FSE and I can get all this to play together nicely.

Jesse

[Jesse]

What exactly is the benefit of EVR in sageTV at this point. I dont see ANY difference in video quality or frame rate

Hi mkanet,

I was just responding to the above. Other than the reasons I gave (which I understand may mean nothing to others) I see no real advantage to EVR over VMR9.

No doubt the whole FSE thing is a dead horse now, but you asked why folks might want EVR so I thought I would just throw my reasons out there.

Jesse

[fac13]

Originally Posted by Jesse

I see no real advantage to EVR over VMR9.

But I guess somebody did, or it wouldn't have made the default - not just for new installs but for upgrades too?

[mkanet]

There are obvious advantages, but in this release of sageTV, they aren't apparent. My guess is this beta was just a proof of concept, without getting the "benefits" portion of EVR working yet.

Originally Posted by Jesse

Hi mkanet,

I was just responding to the above. Other than the reasons I gave (which I understand may mean nothing to others) I see no real advantage to EVR over VMR9.

No doubt the whole FSE thing is a dead horse now, but you asked why folks might want EVR so I thought I would just throw my reasons out there.

Jesse

[patja]

I have an open bug/support service request (see http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36326 ) where Sage is not able to display full DVD resolution. Support has told me this should be fixed by the beta via enabling EVR...unfortunately it took so long to get to this point that my trial has expired and I am unwilling to take a flier on purchasing software that may not work or be fixed.

[frontlinegeek]

Patja, if there is one thing you can depend on it is that Sage fixes its issues. This cannot be said about VMC/MCE or any of the other options out there.

Needless to say, This announced feature has me reinstalling back up to Vista on my main Sage box.

[mikesm]

Some version of drivers from the video card companies work MUCH better in EVR mode than in VMR9 under Vista. If you don't have Vista, then there really is no upside to it. But driver selection under Vista was a lot dicier a proposition without it.

[mkanet]

Thats very true, if EVR works perfectly in WMP and PowerDVD, then its up to SageTV to provide the same quality support in respect to EVR. I personally stick to only Nvidia products with WHQL certified drivers. I'm optimisitic their next beta will be useful in respect to EVR... at least for those people who have EVR working already in WMP with mpeg2/H.264 AVC/VC1 using cyberlink filters.

Originally Posted by mikesm

Some version of drivers from the video card companies work MUCH better in EVR mode than in VMR9 under Vista. If you don't have Vista, then there really is no upside to it. But driver selection under Vista was a lot dicier a proposition without it.

[Beefcake550]

One note, for the G35 chipset, it wasn't beefy enough for VRM9 rending in Vista, but with EVR, I can now turn on all the nifty eye candy and be happier. Now if 24p support would be there (for G35 - I know it won't ever happen).

[setherd]

I run vista 64bit and EVR has made my playback smoother. I used to get slight stuttters in video playback (especially HD content) and so far it has been smooth as silk with EVR

[redondo_se]

As I mentioned in the "EVR doesn't work thread", it has improved mpeg2 playback for me. It seems to have eliminated the "dropped frames" I was getting with VMR9. I think it has also improved H.264 as far as "dropped frames" go, but I wasn't having as much trouble with that on H.264.

Since something isn't implemented right (i.e. DXVA is not working for H.264), we're still not getting the picture quality improvement with H.264, but I think they will get it worked out.

[redondo_se]

Originally Posted by redondo_se

As I mentioned in the "EVR doesn't work thread", it has improved mpeg2 playback for me. It seems to have eliminated the "dropped frames" I was getting with VMR9. I think it has also improved H.264 as far as "dropped frames" go, but I wasn't having as much trouble with that on H.264.

Since something isn't implemented right (i.e. DXVA is not working for H.264), we're still not getting the picture quality improvement with H.264, but I think they will get it worked out.

I have to take that back. I realized last night that DXVA is not working for mpeg2 either with EVR. So, mpeg2 playback has less dropped frames, but the deinterlacing isn't as good with 1080i as it is with VMR9 because it's being done in software (not by the video card). I decided to check if DXVA was working when I started seeing combing.

I think they are working on getting it fixed.

[mkanet]

Right.... glad you saw it. The results are consistent with everyone for mpeg2/h.264 hw acceleration. They are agressively testing this with their sageTV, PowerDVD 8, and arcsoft video decoders for mpeg2/h.264.

Originally Posted by redondo_se

I have to take that back. I realized last night that DXVA is not working for mpeg2 either with EVR. So, mpeg2 playback has less dropped frames, but the deinterlacing isn't as good with 1080i as it is with VMR9 because it's being done in software (not by the video card). I decided to check if DXVA was working when I started seeing combing.

I think they are working on getting it fixed.