Tivo user looking to test out Sage

[wolverines]

I've been tempted many a time to make the switch to Sage from Tivo but it's hard to give up something that just works. But as the family changes the temptation grows. More than anything I want central control and distribution instead of the multiple tivos I have today, and I want DVD playback on all those tv's. All of which Sage can do.

So as I get ready to give Sage a test run (only have 21 days so better get it right!) I have 2 questions to start.

1- can you comingle movies backed up on the HDD along with those recorded from cable, so that when the kids or I go to select a movie to watch they all show up under movies? Maybe even with the cover art for the movies?

2- does anyone have any recommendations for an inexpensive capture card to get started? Eventually I know I'll need an HDHR and at least 1 HD PVR and something else to record basic cable. So I figure I'm better off starting with the cheapest option.

TIA!

[pjpjpjpj]

Welcome! I came from Tivo myself - I'm just a non-techie TV watcher, and I love Sage. I don't think I could ever leave the HTPC world from this point on.

I can't speak for capture cards (I'm an HDHR guy), but for the first part:

Anything you record off of cable will show up in "recordings" unless you use the Sage "Convert video" function (pick the recording, click "convert", it takes a while but you can do other things in Sage while it works). This will then create a file that will appear under "videos" and could then be in the same folder with other movies and such. You could also do it manually - using other non-Sage conversion software, or manually renaming the file on your hard drive, which would cause it to "get lost" from the recordings list but still be seen as a "video". Since it's probably not a good idea to mess with the wiz.bin file (where recording info is kept), I would not recommend that last idea.

Any DVD rips or other movies that you have on your hard drive will only show up under videos. You can't get those into the "recordings" section (at least, I don't think you can).

So, in other words, you can't really do what you are asking without a second step of some kind. Sorry.

On the other hand, there are great plug-ins (such as nielm's Dynamic Customizable Menus) that allow you to create direct links to folders on your hard drive that are, for example, specific DVDs or whatever, and you can label those links. So you could have a link on the front page to "Kids Movies" and that would take you directly to the folder on your hard drive where you put all of your kids' DVD rips and other videos. And any time you recorded something off of TV that you wanted in that folder, you could use the "Convert video" function and convert it, and put it in that folder, then delete the original from your Recordings list.

Hope this helps, even if it, uh, didn't.

[davephan]

Before you install SageTV, or any other demo software, take a disk image of your C (boot) drive. You should be doing disk images periodically, so you can avoid rebuilding your computer from scratch. You can even recover if you have to replace you mainboard in some situtatons. You should store the imaging files on a separate hard drive, rather than DVDs for quicker and more reliable recoveries. Sometimes recoveries fail if you use DVDs. If you don't have disk imaging software, there is pay software like Ghost and Acronis. If you don't want to pay for disk imaging software there is free disk imaging software called PING, Partimage is not Ghost http://ping.windowsdream.com/

You can setup directories for your recorded programs and library programs. I move my recorded programs to my library directory when I want to keep the program.

There are a couple of cheaper cards in the SageTV store web site http://store.sagetv.com/Merchant2/me...tegory_Code=HD

I have a Hauppauge PVR-350, which some people have found to very problematic, however my PVR-350 works fine. I also have a HDHomeRun unit, which has a dual tuner. I use the HDHomeRun only for over the air TV. The HDHomeRun also works with cable TV if the channel is not scrambled, however people are reporting more channels are being scrambled, so the HDHomeRun is becoming less useful if you use it for cable TV.

I have never owned Tivo. How much does Tivo cost per month? SageTV has no monthly cost, no matter how many tuners you have. Does Tivo inject their own commercials?

There are many good reasons to switch to SageTV, including automatic commercial skipping, a web server you can access from anywhere, and many other add-on programs, most are free. SageTV does require some tweaking to get it going, it is not an appliance. However, SageTV does not have the limitations of an appliance, and does not have a re-occuring monthly cost.

SageTV is like Tivo on steroids. You can expand the system, adding disk, tuners, media extenders, etc. The free addon programs and great forum support help make it easier to expand your system. SageTV is not for everyone. If you only know how to operate a TV, dishwasher, range, and washer, and do not want to learn about SageTV, then SageTV is not for you.

The SageTV software is well worth it's price. SageTV drastically improves the TV, automatically learning what you like and don't like, bringing the good TV to you and making the bad TV go away.


Dave

[ghostlobster]

First, welcome! You're going to have a bit of a learning curve in order to get everything exactly as you want it, though. It's not very difficult once you get the hang of it, but it can be intimidating. The very fortunate thing is that you've got a great community here to help you out, though and you'll find there really is not much you can't do with Sage. Now, your specifics:

Originally Posted by wolverines

1- can you comingle movies backed up on the HDD along with those recorded from cable, so that when the kids or I go to select a movie to watch they all show up under movies? Maybe even with the cover art for the movies?

Yup, with cover art and everything! The first thing you'll want to do is install SageMC on your clients, though. No matter what you're doing with Sage, I recommend SageMC. I have a network share with all my ripped DVDs on it. I've set my Video library to monitor that drive and after I record a movie I want to keep, I move that file over to that drive. Then, SageMC sees it there, I select it and tell it to do an IMDB lookup on it, and I get the cover art, genre, description, everything right there.

Originally Posted by wolverines

2- does anyone have any recommendations for an inexpensive capture card to get started? Eventually I know I'll need an HDHR and at least 1 HD PVR and something else to record basic cable. So I figure I'm better off starting with the cheapest option.

Everyone is going to have an opinion about TV Tuners, so that
ll be up to you. I personally have always liked Hauppauge. New Egg has the 1250 pretty cheap right now, and it comes with the Hauppauge remote. If you're just looking for basic cable and QAM support for HD, this is the guy.

Have fun and don't be afraid to tinker!

[wolverines]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

Anything you record off of cable will show up in "recordings" unless you use the Sage "Convert video" function (pick the recording, click "convert", it takes a while but you can do other things in Sage while it works). This will then create a file that will appear under "videos" and could then be in the same folder with other movies and such. You could also do it manually - using other non-Sage conversion software, or manually renaming the file on your hard drive, which would cause it to "get lost" from the recordings list but still be seen as a "video". Since it's probably not a good idea to mess with the wiz.bin file (where recording info is kept), I would not recommend that last idea.

Any DVD rips or other movies that you have on your hard drive will only show up under videos. You can't get those into the "recordings" section (at least, I don't think you can).

So, in other words, you can't really do what you are asking without a second step of some kind. Sorry.

On the other hand, there are great plug-ins (such as nielm's Dynamic Customizable Menus) that allow you to create direct links to folders on your hard drive that are, for example, specific DVDs or whatever, and you can label those links. So you could have a link on the front page to "Kids Movies" and that would take you directly to the folder on your hard drive where you put all of your kids' DVD rips and other videos. And any time you recorded something off of TV that you wanted in that folder, you could use the "Convert video" function and convert it, and put it in that folder, then delete the original from your Recordings list.

Hope this helps, even if it, uh, didn't.

That actually does help. I didn't know about that plug-in. Sounds very useful for me. One question - when the recordings are converted to something that can show up under the videos folder, do you know if the quality is kept? Converting wouldn't make sense if it lowers the quality. I'm thinking of a bunch of HD movies I have recorded in Tivo right now, and would do the same with Sage eventually, but I'd rather have those under videos, not in recordings, since those will be kept indefinitely.

Thanks.

[shadeblue.com]

This is not the cheapest capture card, but this is the card I started with:
Hauppauge HVR-1600 (or the 1800 if you have PCI express slot). This card allowed me to test a variety of different inputs including analog cable TV, ATSC over the air HD signals, and SVideo capture from my satellite/digital cable box. This card has two tuners built in so it can perform two recordings simultaneously. This card also supports clear QAM signals if you are trying to capture unencrypted HD content from your cable TV service. So for me, while not the cheapest option, this card provided me a wealth of testing possibilities before plunging deeper ($$$) into the HTPC experience. I still use this card in my setup, but I have expanded to include the HD Homerun so have more OTA recording capacity, and 2 HD-PVRs to capture HD and digital cable.

(BTW, you can find better deals on this card with a little online searching, I think I purchased mine from Amazon.)

Good Luck and Have Fun!
-SB

[wolverines]

Thanks guys. I guess I should have mentioned that my eventual setup would have the server in the basement (already there, with HDMI out to the projector). I also have an HP Mediasmart server where I'll keep most of the recordings. Then, as Sage takes over (assuming all works and the WAF is high) I'll get HD Extenders for the family room, bedroom and kids playroom.

So Ghostlobster, I won't have any SageMC clients, but I would like to do essentially what you have described. I'd put all the movies on the WHS box set up with a network share.

[ghostlobster]

Originally Posted by wolverines

Thanks guys. I guess I should have mentioned that my eventual setup would have the server in the basement (already there, with HDMI out to the projector). I also have an HP Mediasmart server where I'll keep most of the recordings. Then, as Sage takes over (assuming all works and the WAF is high) I'll get HD Extenders for the family room, bedroom and kids playroom.

So Ghostlobster, I won't have any SageMC clients, but I would like to do essentially what you have described. I'd put all the movies on the WHS box set up with a network share.

If you have a Media Smart server already, I highly recommend using Sage for WHS. It comes with a client license, so you can get Sage up and running on your WHS box, then offload the display processing to a dedicated client. This is a much better solution than using a single box as the Sage "server" and display client.

[stanger89]

Yup, my recommendation would be sage on the Mediasmart server and then stick HD200 extenders at every TV you want to use it.

[cychou]

Originally Posted by wolverines

That actually does help. I didn't know about that plug-in. Sounds very useful for me. One question - when the recordings are converted to something that can show up under the videos folder, do you know if the quality is kept? Converting wouldn't make sense if it lowers the quality. I'm thinking of a bunch of HD movies I have recorded in Tivo right now, and would do the same with Sage eventually, but I'd rather have those under videos, not in recordings, since those will be kept indefinitely.

Thanks.

You do not need to convert recordings just so they show up under "Imported Video" section. You only need to move the file from one directory to the other, and then re-scan the import directory. Because the file is the same (just in a different directory), there is no quality loss.

Persoally I usually clean up the video and cut out the commercial (using VideoRedo and others) before moving it into the "Imported Video" directory. This is usually done on another PC over the network.

Converting recording is the only way to move recordings into Video without leaving SageTV (or SageMC) Menu. But if you are willing to close Sage and move the file yourself, no conversion is necessary.

[shadeblue.com]

Originally Posted by wolverines

Thanks guys. I guess I should have mentioned that my eventual setup would have the server in the basement (already there, with HDMI out to the projector). I also have an HP Mediasmart server where I'll keep most of the recordings. Then, as Sage takes over (assuming all works and the WAF is high) I'll get HD Extenders for the family room, bedroom and kids playroom.

wolverines,

I just posted a whole-home diagram that may help you visualize this setup. One course the diagram includes many content source options just to provide an example, but you can mix and match as needed.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/down...do=file&id=278

Thanks,
SB

[stanger89]

You know, you can attach pictures to posts

[shadeblue.com]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You know, you can attach pictures to posts

I know

Just trying to put it in a centralized location for future reference. Also, it may be too big to render properly in the thread post page.

Thanks,
SB

[wolverines]

Originally Posted by ghostlobster

If you have a Media Smart server already, I highly recommend using Sage for WHS. It comes with a client license, so you can get Sage up and running on your WHS box, then offload the display processing to a dedicated client. This is a much better solution than using a single box as the Sage "server" and display client.

Ghostlobster, what is the advantage of putting Sage on the WHS box? I did some searching in the forums and couldn't find a good answer. I think if I did that then I would have to use a usb capture card since the Mediasmart server has no PCI slots. The "server" I was planning on using sits right next to the WHS box right now in a closet in the basement. It is used very infrequently for music and connected to my projector and has HDMI out. And my house is wired with cat5e throughout.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by wolverines

Ghostlobster, what is the advantage of putting Sage on the WHS box?

It saves running two boxes 24/7.

[wolverines]

Guys, thanks for all the help. Based on the equipment I have it sounds best for me to test out Sage by keeping it on the PC, not the mediasmart server. They both are on 24/7 and sit right next to each other in my basement. I'll get a PCI capture card that works with QAM and analog cable to start. I can play that back on my projector since it's connected to that PC. I'll keep movies and music (as I do now) on the mediasmart sever and all recordings on the PC.

If all goes well then I'll get a mediaMVP for the kids playroom (starting cheap and building up). As the system grows (and hopefully prices drop) I'll look at adding an HDHR, HD PVR and a couple of HD extenders, hopefully recouping those costs by selling off my tivos. Everyone is so used to the tivos at this point so I need to make sure this transition goes as smooth as possible.

[wolverines]

Well, step 1 is complete. An HVR 2250 is on route. Once I get it set up I'll test out Sage and report back. Hopefully it won't be too difficult and I'll be on my way to replacing tivo with a wonderful Sage setup.