Alternate Frontend?

[DBGaither]

Okay, I do not yet have a PVR system. After much research I am alternating between MythTV (good support/very flexible/requires Linux tweaking) and SageTV (good support/unknown flexibility/no tweaking required).

What I need is a way to leverage the OLD (Xbox connected to TV & AppleTV) technology in my home.

I've poured over the web pages for SageTV but there are a few things that are unclear to me.

The only frontends Sage mentions are the HD-Theater and PlaceShifter. This makes me wonder if Sage uses some weird format for the files. QUESTION: Can XBMC or Boxee be used as a frontend for Sage?

Doug

[Brent]

Originally Posted by DBGaither

Okay, I do not yet have a PVR system. After much research I am alternating between MythTV (good support/very flexible/requires Linux tweaking) and SageTV (good support/unknown flexibility/no tweaking required).

Not really true. MythTV definitely has a steep learning curve. Linux may be more of the stumbler for most people there. SageTV also requires some tweaking depending on your needs. There is plenty of flexibility in SageTV so you should be fine there.

What I need is a way to leverage the OLD (Xbox connected to TV & AppleTV) technology in my home.

You can't use the old or new XBox or AppleTV with SageTV. You can view the files SageTV records on those two boxes however.

I've poured over the web pages for SageTV but there are a few things that are unclear to me.

The only frontends Sage mentions are the HD-Theater and PlaceShifter. This makes me wonder if Sage uses some weird format for the files. QUESTION: Can XBMC or Boxee be used as a frontend for Sage?

Doug

When you say "frontend" are you meaning the graphical user interface (menu)? Or something else? I ask because your statement there talks about front-end which means UI to me. SageTV comes with a standard STV (UI) and there are a few other custom ones available - the SageMC UI is the most popular by far.
If you meant Extender when you said front-end, there are several options:

1. Computer - run SageTV on a computer connected to a TV using SageTV, SageTV Client or SageTV Placeshifter
2. Hauppauge MediaMVP - the oldest version of CE extender. Has its limitations (HD has to be transcoded for instance) but its cheap and works great
3. SageTV HD100 Extender - an excellent extender made for SageTV. No longer available new, but many used ones available at good prices
4. SageTV HD Theater (HD200) - The best extender available. Also can be used in standalone mode

To answer your last question, I think there is a way to use XBMC with SageTV.

[DBGaither]

Some clarification - When I say frontend, I mean some device (/w GUI) that can access various files (TV shows or DVD rips) stored on another computer on my home network and display them on a TV they are connected to. So, I'm not sure if maybe I'm using the term "frontend" improperly. I would like to build a system that will serve both backend and frontend needs - this seems to me like a standard SageTV Media Center system - and connect it to my main living room HD-TV.

BUT - I'd also like to be able to access all of the content over the network from an Original Xbox as well as an AppleTV. I asked about XBMC because it is available for both Xbox and AppleTV. So if XBMC can access all the files on SageTV Medial Center, then I think it should work. (?)

[vikingisson]

I think we understood your frontend statement. A sage specific frontend would have to be the sage UI which is java based. They say your xbox etc can show the recordings that sage makes but the issue becomes how to get to them. Since you can't run the sage UI on those boxes you could share the recording directories and read them that way or run xbmc to support UPnP and get to them that way. You loose the ability to control the pvr but you can watch recordings.

To clarify one thing, you could indeed run the server as both a backend and frontend but the best way is as a backend only server sitting in a closet or basement so the noise isn't disruptive. For other rooms a pc or laptop makes a great front end. Extenders are the way to go for the primary t.v. or where a pc isn't normally parked.

[DBGaither]

Okay then, that sounds like what I am trying to achieve.

I don't have a PC to use for this endeavor (I'm a Mac guy), so I was thinking of building an HTPC similar to this http://www.gearlive.com/news/tag/htpc+on+a+budget to use as an all-in-one solution. It is in an attractive case, low-power & quiet as well as being able to have XBMC clients on existing old hardware access the content from this PC. It may be about the same $$$ as outfitting a standalone server for the closet and just buying an HD200, but I think spouse approval would be higher with a single-box solution (no closet to put it in). I am O.K. with not being able to control the PVR from remote locations. That is not a big deal to me.

I would be interested in hearing your comments about the HTPC build in the link above. Thanks for your help.

Doug

[PLUCKYHD]

You know sagetv will run on a mac right?

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by DBGaither

The only frontends Sage mentions are the HD-Theater and PlaceShifter. This makes me wonder if Sage uses some weird format for the files. QUESTION: Can XBMC or Boxee be used as a frontend for Sage?

Doug

Sage supports playback of just about any common video format. The recording format will depend on what hardware you are using to perform the video capture...

If you are using an analog capture device such as the Hauppauge PVR-150, Sage tells the card what quality settings to use, and the card encodes the video in MPEG-2 format. Sage saves the file with an *.mpg file name.

If you are using a digital capture device such as the HDHomerun, it streams the video to your hard disk in it's original digital broadcast format without re-encoding and saves it as an MPEG-2 Program Stream with an *.mpg file name.

If you are using the Hauppauge HD-PVR, it captures the analog output from the component video outputs of your HD cable or satalite box and encodes the video to H264 format. I believe it stores it as an AVI file.

...these are all standard formats with no DRM so, once you have these recordings on your PC, you should be able to connect just about any extender type device (XBMC, AppleTV, or whatever can play those standard formats), browse your hard-drive, and play them back.

However, the Sage front-end does a lot more than just browse your hard drive to play back video, audio, and picture files. The Sage front end has a program guide that tells you what is on TV for the next week or two, and it allows you to watch live TV or schedule recordings. It allows you to setup "favorites" so that the shows you like will automatically get recorded, and it lets you pause and rewind live TV. To do all of these things, you must use one of the following:

1. Run the Sage UI software on the same PC (Windows, Mac, or Linux) that you are using to make your recordings.
2. Run the Sage Client software on a separate PC (Windows, Mac, or Linux) that is connected to the network. This requires a separate license (extra $$).
3. Run the Sage Client Software on one of the supported extenders (currently MediaMVP from Hauppauge, HD100 from Sage, or HD200 from Sage) that is connected to the network. The extenders come with the license if the hardware is purchased from Sage, otherwise you must buy a license.
4. Run the Sage Placeshifter Software on a PC that is connected to the internet. The placeshifter requires a license (extra $$).

In addition, there are posts on this discussion board about running an XBMC script (free). I haven't tried it, but I think it lets you use an XBox like an extender (here is at least one of the threads, and here is another).

There is also a Web Server add-on described in this discussion board. You install it on the same PC as your Sage Server software. It allows you to use any web browser via your network or the internet to control SageTV (schedule recordings, look at the TV guide, and more).

If you don't like the standard user interface presented by Sage, you can customize it by loading different themes (like skins), adding STVi imports (plug-ins that add or change functionality or appearance), or loading alternate STV files (complete user interface definition) such as SageMC. All of these are free, community-developed features that you will find in this forum (see this thread)

[vikingisson]

Don't get me wrong, an all in one HTPC is perfectly fine. That is what I do since I don't yet own a real tv and am happy with a 22 inch monitor for now. You just have to pay more attention to aesthetics and noise. I have that same case and it is fine, I swapped out the included case fans for a quieter multi speed fan and a nice CPU heat sink without a fan. Runs very cool and very quiet and looks nice with the stereo. And like was mentioned, the Mac would make a nice remote tv (and *can* control the PVR) or even as the server itself. The wife will love you when she can take the laptop to the bath and watch media over the wireless network. Perhaps run a background UPnP service such as XBMC and the other devices can get at the PVR's media too.

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by DBGaither

It may be about the same $$$ as outfitting a standalone server for the closet and just buying an HD200, but I think spouse approval would be higher with a single-box solution (no closet to put it in).

Although I highly recommend separate front and back ends, the nice thing about Sage is that you can have a combined system for now, and when you have a closet/basement you can make the current system a dedicated backend.

Of course, by then, you will want a system with Dual 4GHz Quad core CPUs and 20TB of disk space, so you'll probably need a new case anyway.

--John

[DBGaither]

Thanks for your help guys. I'm really still doing lots and lots of reading about HTPCs. I keep coming back to Sage. My latest mindset (ver 0.65) is to just build an HPTC based on the MSI-7411 Diva 5.1 mobo in a nice looking case. This will cost more than I'd like, but I won't need to shell out money for a receiver to drive the speakers.

As for my old legacy stuff, I can run XBMC and pull the media off my Sage unit, and then when the time is right, just buy an HD-200 extender.

Thanks again!
Doug

[bcjenkins]

Take a look here too: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37206

I've never used it, but may be worth your time.

B