HD PVR vs Firewire

[jerryb33]

Since I just became a customer of TWC digital 4250HDC box, I was interested in trying to get info on FW. Well most of the threads and post are a couple years old, especially the setups for them. Reading some of them really is quite confusing (to me anyway). Before I get into trying it out, I was trying to see the benefits of FW over a HDPVR unit (besides cost). I can set my 4250 to change channels and output to the HDPVR.

So the real question is "Should I go HDPVR route and save a few headaches"?

My setup is

Q6600 - 3gb -500gbHDD - VISTA Home Premium
Running as a server
2 - 100 extenders

[Taddeusz]

With FW you are at the whim of your cable company. Through FW you will only be able to capture those channels which are not 5C flagged as "copy once" or "copy never". Cox Cable here in Oklahoma City has nearly everything 5C flagged except for most of the locals. It's actually rather odd. Most of the HD local networks are 5C flagged but can be received in clear QAM. So they can be recorded with a QAM tuner but not with FW on the cable box.

With the HD PVR you can capture every channel you are entitled to but the video will go through a digital-analog-digital conversion process. Personally the difference in quality is negligable most of the time.

[B-Figgy]

I ran Firewire recording for a good year before the release of the HD PVR and it worked quite well. The initial setup wasn't too difficult and the quality was great. However, you'll probably find that your biggest problem is encrypted channels. All of my premium channels and even some regular network channels were unavailable to me over firewire. You might have more success with your provider though but that's not a guarantee.

edit: beaten by Taddeusz

[jerryb33]

Thanks for the replies. Any news if there will be a 2 component input unit coming out soon?

[reggie14]

I've been using firewire capture for about 6 months and my experience has been quite good. I have a DCT6200 through comcast. I get all of the expanded basic HD offerings except the History Channel. Right now I get TBS, CNN, USA, SciFi, Discovery, TLC, Animal Planet, Disney, TNT, Universal, Comcast SportsNet, and ESPN 1&2 in HD. I think I get a couple more that I never added to Sage, like Home and Garden. As I said, I don't get History-HD, or movie channels in HD, even though they are part of my package.

You're going to get the best video quality using firewire capture. You also are going to have an easier time doing commercial skipping (though, you can do that with HD-PVR files now), Placeshifting, and transcoding for any MVPs you might have. I think my channel changing is much faster than people that are even using the HD-PVRs with firewire channel changing, since I don't need to set long tuning and recording delays.

Reliability has mostly been good. I did run into some problems before I turned off DEP on my server (which is a bad sign for the quality of drivers). Basically, my server would crash every week or so. But, I haven't had problems since I turned off DEP.

Setup is probably the biggest downside, assuming you can actually record over firewire on your box. But, the initial part of the setup- installing the drivers and checking what works, is pretty easy. If you already have a firewire card, it should be pretty easy to install the drivers, tune to a channel on the set top box, and then open VLC and see if you can record off of it. Maybe you'll get lucky and be able to record everything you want to.

[Clift]

Originally Posted by jerryb33

Thanks for the replies. Any news if there will be a 2 component input unit coming out soon?

Nothing about a two input that I know of.

To chime in, the HD PVR quality can be a bit soft, depending on the channels in my particular setup. i have Brighthouse Networks and their HD sucks for a lot of channels (Discovery, SPEED, HGTV, etc) but is actually really good for others (ESPN-HD, Disney-HD, for example). So I know the HD PVR is definitely capable of good quality. As for comparison, I would say Firewire is gonna have the quality upper hand and as Reggie mentioned, comskip and transcoding will be easier too. But even if you get a ton of channels over Firewire now there's no guarantee you will continue to get those channels in the future.

[sic0048]

There is also no guarantee that the HD-PVR set up is going to be a cake walk. For many it is, but there are others that struggle with getting a stable system. So I think that arguement is really a wash between the two.

Given that setup could be a bear with either solution, I think it comes down to which solution is better for you. Personally I would at least try the FW option since you have the equipment. If it turns out to be too hard to set up, or if you don't get as many channels as you would like, you can always turn to the HD-PVR at that time.

If you know you won't be happy with the fewer channels available through FW, then I would skip it and go right to the HD-PVR.

Just my 2 cents.

[Taddeusz]

Who is your cable provider?

[evilpenguin]

I love firewire, its been very reliable for me, but like everyone is saying you are definetly at the mercy of the cable company. Just last week I lost SciFi HD and FoodHD after having been able to get them for over a year.

[jerryb33]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Who is your cable provider?

TWC

Using QAM (TV tuner) I only get locals and music. Maybe one other - TBS.

Is that related to FW, meaning what I get on QAM is all I'll get on FW?

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by jerryb33

TWC

Using QAM (TV tuner) I only get locals and music. Maybe one other - TBS.

Is that related to FW, meaning what I get on QAM is all I'll get on FW?

YMMV but yes, that is most likely the case. That seems to be the way Cox works it, for the most part.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by jerryb33

Is that related to FW, meaning what I get on QAM is all I'll get on FW?

I don't know how TWC works, but I get lots of channels over firewire that I can't get on unencrypted QAM (I'm on Comcast). I think this is definitely one of those things where your-mileage-may-vary.

[ke6guj]

a lot will depend on how much 5C your cable company throws at you. Untill the end of May, my CC did not 5C any of the channels I got, including the premiums and had a lot of open QAM HD channels.

But that all changed the other day. They did a small channel realinement and 5C'ed just about everything and encrypted much of the stuff that was open QAM as well

So, for now, recording the STB via composite into my PVR500, untill I get an HDPVR set up.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by jerryb33

Thanks for the replies. Any news if there will be a 2 component input unit coming out soon?

By a two component input do you mean one that will allow you to record two video streams from two sources? This would also require two cable boxes.

I think this is rather unlikely for a few reasons:
- Hauppauge only seems to be able to support one IR blaster in a system so unless they make some changes you would only be able to change channels on one box.
- Early models, and some current ones, have heat issues. Putting double the hardware in a box would exacerbate the heat problem.
- The data volume would double which could cause problems - you would now be pumping a lot of data through one USB port and some people already have problems with USB throughput.