Platform for solid results

[Old_Skool]

As I continue to define what type of setup to go for (and the resulting cost) I'm looking at the following


A dedicated machine as the SageTV server and a HD200 at the TV

the server will be:
- Pentium 4 3Ghz Dual Core
- Nvidia 256MB video card
- 1GB DRAM
- Happauge 1600
- 400GB drive
- XP-Pro

So the key here is a solid platform + near zero downtime = Happy Wife

Some folks are mentioning WHS as an "OS" choice and I have to say I'm pretty ignorant about WHS. From what I know WHS is running as a media repository server itself ... so SageTV is just running as another service on the server ? I do see that if MS did it right (hmmm) WHS should be more stable than XP and have less over head used on graphics etc.

I don't want to start a pissing match over XP vs WHS just want to learn some pros / cons

Thanks

[ghostlobster]

I was just reading your other thread and ws about to chime in over there when I saw this one.
OK...WHS. WHS is essentially Windows 2003 Server stripped down a little bit. Actually, all of the Win2k3 Server services are available and installable on the platform if you manually slap them into place after the initial setup. Mine is acting a my DNS server and my DHCP server as well as my Sage Server and media repository.

It's stability is impressive for a MS product to say the least. I've got a WHS box driving 3 SageTV clients and it's just rock solid. I never have to reboot it, I never have to even touch the thing. It just plain works headless off in the corner. I cannot speak for any driver compatibility related issues that some people might have run into as I have yet to have an issue installing any product that has a XP driver.

One of the nice things about it is the ability to add storage on the fly to your share repository. If you start running low on space, just slap another drive in, or hang one off a USB port, add it to the storage and it pools all of your drives as a single storage entity. If you're recording HD, someone posted a nice 'how-to' for creating WHS drive pools with 64k clusters...a very important read!

Regarding a plus/minus comparison of WHS vs. XP...I can't help you there. I've never run XP as a Sage server. I've run a Vista box, and it required a little bit of maintenence, but not much. My only recommendation would be to be certain that your Sage server box is not also acting as a playback device. I tried that for a while and was not very happy (actually, Mrs. Lobster was not happy...meaning no one in the house was happy.)

I'm curious, about one thing, though...why are you going with the 1600? The HDHomeRun is an amazing device and provides some added versatility by being network attached. Again, it just plain works.

[wrems]

You don't need a designated video card for the server. You're covered with the HD200 you can make the server headless...

[DMT]

I'm a new SageTV user and you won't be disappointed if you go the WHS / HD200 extender route. I trialled SageTV with XP, Vista then WHS. I decided on WHS as an appliance running 24/7 using extenders for viewing. Only time you need video on WHS is during install. WHS uses Server 2003 or XP drivers so good device compatibility. Microsoft offers a free trial (ISO) download if you want to try on a spare / test box. SageTV runs as a service which is perfect for WHS. You can add a BD drive (and software) later if you want and stream blu-ray directly to the HD200. Of course this works with XP and Vista too.

I'm no expert but since WHS is real server software, it is robust and designed for the task(s) of running a service like SageTV, acting as a central file repository, enabling remote access, backing up / restoring other computers on your network and just sitting there mostly unattended. Somehow MS coded something right here offering all of this for $100 or so OEM.

Dave

[Old_Skool]

Great post ghostlobster - I'll have to really consider WHS in this mix. One thing I should mention is if we're going to do this then we want to watching and streaming HD.

Not sure about your comment about the XP box (Sage server) not be the playback box as well ... current plan is to leave the Sage server in the home office and let it stream over the net to the HD200 in the living room. Meaning I'll have to go under the house and run 25' - 50' of LAN cable ... Joy.

I'll have to look at the Homerun device again --- to be honest I don't see us streaming all over the house. Just from the server to the TV ... after all we are Old Skool

I just see this as an opportunity to do a few things:
- begin to get our various media items centralized and accessible
- have more control over piped in cable or satellite
- finally get to HD

Thanks again - this is a great community

[freedml]

Several of us have had ongoing troubles with the HD200. It may work for you 100% out of the box, but be aware that it may not.

[othy]

I ran XP-Pro on my server for a while before switching (upgrading, IMHO) to WHS. In terms of reliability, my experience was great on both so I can't say that one was more reliable then the other.

If you already have the XP license it's hard to argue against that, but if you're buying a new OS for the server be sure to consider WHS. There's no way I'd go back. There's plenty out there about its features but in short: full (and highly space-efficient) nightly backup of every computer on your network; redundancy for your most important files; complete headless operation including a very user-friendly console or standard RDP; the ability to access my documents via the Internet when I'm away from home.

Tim

[Skirge01]

I think where a lot of people get into trouble with XP as a server is that... it's XP, so they tend to use it as more than just a server. They install additional codecs, players, games, utilities, etc, which don't belong on a server because a server is meant to be reliable. They may also browse the internet on it and potentially get infected with malware. Any "extra" stuff you add has the possibility of causing conflicts or other issues.

WHS is a server OS, so it's usually easy enough for people to remember not to tinker with it. If they add something that's not supported, it may very well irrepairably break the OS itself. For this reason, most people will tell you that WHS is extremely reliable and they're absolutely correct. Personally, I think that anyone who wants to get into something as "complex" (meaning very customizable, so usually not simply plug and play) as Sage should strongly consider setting up a WHS box in their home. The additional features of WHS are amazing. WHS is the epitome of "it just works".

[PLUCKYHD]

WHS all the way especially for novice/beginners it is rock solid with sage and runs great.

As for problems with the hd200 I don't really have any running latest beta it is pretty solid. (definately more than media center 360 every was

good luck

[tahoetim]

trouble with the hd200? don't you mean the hdpvr?

back to the topic at hand:

Beware that if you go with the trial version of WHS, you have to reload the licensed version later. I just went for the $99 package and never looked back. The video card included on most motherboards is adequate to set up you WHS box. The are a few cool admin tools to load onto WHS to make life easier. Start with at least two drives for WHS and follow the install guide published on this site.

I run three HD200's with no issues at all and no downtime. The family factor is high. If you stay with the official releases and resist temptation to load beta stuff, it will be rock solid.

[Old_Skool]

Well I'm pretty much sold on WHS - but it adds $100 to the whole thing. Even if I re-purpose a dual-core machine I have I come up with $500 to build this thing properly.

Hauppauge 1600 $85.00
HD200 + Sage Lic $220.00
2 WD 250GB drives $100.00
WHS $100.00


So will have to talk with the head accountant ... we are on a tight budget with the economy being tits-up and all

[ghostlobster]

If you have a decent machine kicking around you can build a Sage Client PC, saving the $200 on the HD200 just to get a feel for everything. I'm running in a 100% client/server environment (no extenders) and it works perfectly. I've been meaning to grab an HD200 at some point, but just have not really been too motivated as my clients are performing so well.

Once you get a feel for everything and determine that it's definitely the way you want to go, then you can drop the $200 on the extender.

Additionally, Sage for WHS comes with a Placeshifter license. My personal experience with Placeshifter has been less than impressive, though. The performance and quality was abysmal when compared to the full blown client. Some people have not had the same experience as I and are happy with Placeshifter, so who knows. However, it's a nice little utility for doing things like watching a hockey game on the laptop when you're out on the porch with a glass of wine and a cigar, as long as you're not too concerned with the quality.

Again, I'm still confused by the 1600 over the HDHomeRun. If my memory is still functioning properly, I believe that the 1600 only has a single ATSC/QAM tuner along with an analog tuner, correct? The HDHomeRun is a dual ATSC/QAM tuner. While the flexibility of having it network connected might not seem that important to you now, having that open door for future implementations is a very good thing. Additionally, the ATSC tuners in the HDHomeRun are top rate. I've always had issues with other tuners puling in ATSC signals due to the fact that I'm in a bit of a valley. However, for some reason, the HDHomeRun pulls in everything pretty well for me. Never having owned a 1600, I can't speak for its capabilities, however.

[wrems]

I agree with Ghostlobster. I think that you may run into WAF problems if you choose a 1 tuner setup and then have recording conflicts with your new system and have to immediately start adding more hardware/$$$$$ to it. She’ll wonder what the $500 bucks bought, and even likely want to ditch it! I think it will be an easier sell overall to get what you need straight up and then sit back and relax on a rig that will perform as well as a standard DVR/Tivo blackbox unit. By that I mean, being able to record at least 2 shows and watch 1 back… As time goes on and she realizes how nice Sage is, adding additional hardware won’t be such a hard sell. But if you put together something that will set yourself up for immediate scheduling conflicts you’ll start losing her support right from the beginning.

I too throw in my support of the HDHR. At the same time, it is a bit more costly. Someone in this forum has been recommending the AVerMedia AVerTVHD Duet. At $60 and a dual tuner I would give that a go if I was in a money crunch.

[Clift]

Originally Posted by Old_Skool

Well I'm pretty much sold on WHS - but it adds $100 to the whole thing. Even if I re-purpose a dual-core machine I have I come up with $500 to build this thing properly.

Hauppauge 1600 $85.00
HD200 + Sage Lic $220.00
2 WD 250GB drives $100.00
WHS $100.00


So will have to talk with the head accountant ... we are on a tight budget with the economy being tits-up and all

Well a few things to note. If your dual core machine is running Vista you could have that as your OS to start. So no reason to run out and get WHS quite yet. A lot of people on this board (me included) are running XP or Vista pretty successfully. Remember, if all you're doing is running SageTV and (maybe) Comskip, you can keep a fresh install of Windows pretty stable. It's only when people start using their machines for playback or not as a dedicated HTPC then they have to load all the codecs, etc and can make things less than stable.

Another thing: Newegg is having a sale on the Seagate 500 GB hard drive (http://www.amazon.com/Contech-Electr...5932896&sr=8-1) $49.99 + free shipping. Or even the Western Digital 1 TB drive which I personally have and gets great reviews (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136317) for $89.99 + free shipping

That would leave a few extra dollars available to upgrade to an HDHomerun... Just some thoughts.

And you can always upgrade to a second drive + WHS down the line.


edit: this one... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...L0A-_-22148395

Please see reason for editing for details

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Clift

Another thing: Newegg is having a sale on the Seagate 500 GB hard drive (http://www.amazon.com/Contech-Electr...5932896&sr=8-1) $49.99 + free shipping.

Um... I suspect something happened to the clipboard during the copy & paste of that link, though it is an interesting item.

- Andy

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Um... I suspect something happened to the clipboard during the copy & paste of that link, though it is an interesting item.

- Andy

I so want one of these for my front door

[Clift]

I edited the post with the correct link...

Raccoons or Armadillos have been getting in my flower bed overnight and I need serious(ly annoying) stopping power!
I've tried everything, including leaving the outside light on overnight.

[Old_Skool]

Thanks to all of you for your time and thoughts !!

After so many recommendations on the HDHomeRun I factored that in and decided I could use XP as a dedicated server to get started. I agree that if XP is just a single purpose machine its pretty stable. That gets me to around $400

HDHomerun $160.00
HD200 + Sage Lic $220.00
WD 500GB $50.00
8port Hub $40.00

I've still got the HD200 in the mix as I like the idea of the server being in the office and there is no way I could cobble together a client for $200 to sit next to the TV

[wrems]

You'll be happy with this setup.

[lotusvball]

Originally Posted by tahoetim

Beware that if you go with the trial version of WHS, you have to reload the licensed version later.

It is not really that hard of a process. I was using the trial and when I decided to get the paid version, there is an option to reinstall the server and it was a very smooth process. I did have to reinstall sage, but my settings and recordings remained. One note, I did not put my sage drives in the drive pool. I would have lost them on the reinstall if I did, I think.