SageMCTuner - use a cablecard in Sage!

[SHS]

Originally Posted by cyberwolf

What i don't understand is why Sage v7 doesn't support cable cards now. SageTV has already purchased a PlayReady license see http://www.microsoft.com/PlayReady/L...licensees.mspx
They have been on M$ "PlayReady Master Agreement Licensees" for awhile too.

I have been waiting for SageTV to officially support CC, at least on W7, before purchasing one.

Take the time read this FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/PlayReady/FAQ.mspx
Mainly this one "How does Microsoft PlayReady work?"

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by SHS

Take the time read this FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/PlayReady/FAQ.mspx
Mainly this one "How does Microsoft PlayReady work?"

I have read it...
"Microsoft PlayReady protects content by encrypting data files. There is no need to hide files, make them inaccessible, or put special protection in place when files are transmitted from system to system. In other words, operating system requirements and high-security, file-transport mechanisms are not needed. However, copying a file and giving it to a friend will not enable that friend to use the file if it’s protected by PlayReady. To use an encrypted file, users need a license. This license is the primary way to exercise control over content (the encrypted file). A license is granted to a single client (such as a media player) or a domain (such as a home network). The license will not function on other clients or other domains.

Each license contains rights and restrictions that define exactly how the content may be used and under what conditions. For example, a music file license may enable a "right to play" but restrict the "right to export (burn) to CD." The license might be valid for the period between October 1, 2008, and November 1, 2008. There may be multiple licenses for a single file. A user will be able to access and use his or her content so long as one of the licenses grants the right, and the restrictions do not prevent access.

For more information on how PlayReady protects digital content, please see the white paper."

And I fully understand that my recorded media will have DRM and i may not be able to export to DVD or the like. I like SageTV's software more for the interface than the lack of DRM so i'm more than willing to sacrifice file portability if that means i can ditch my 4 STB and IR reciever for a Ceton InifiniTV 4 and a m-card.

I'm hoping that they are working on it and offer the capability for those who want it. Hence my disappointment that there is nothing about CC support in v7.

With the license also comes the SDK for software and hardware. If an XBox can act as an extender and play files that are encoded with PlayReady then so can one of SageTV's extenders. (maybe the next version with wireless N support )

another qoute from the FAQ:
"Q. Is Microsoft PlayReady an application, a software development kit (SDK), or something else?
A. Microsoft PlayReady is a technology platform that offers components that are tailored for different parts of the ecosystem. PlayReady technology components include:

• Microsoft PlayReady Device Porting Kit, which enables device manufacturers to include support for PlayReady-protected content in their devices.

• Microsoft PlayReady PC Software Development Kit, which enables application developers to build support for PlayReady-protected content in their Windows applications.

• Microsoft PlayReady Server Software Development Kit, which is software that encrypts and packages content for delivery to customers. In addition, the kit issues licenses to clients to enable decryption of PlayReady-protected content. "

There seems to be enough SageTV fans that are for CC tuners and PlayReady(well except it as a necessary evil anyways) as well as enough WMC users that would be willing to convert if SageTV made the option available to make the venture worthwhile.

[SHS]

I take you didn't read it very well key problem

A license is granted to a single client (such as a media player) or a domain (such as a home network). The license will not function on other clients or other domains.

There for it will kill the Home DVR server with muli client in case more then one HD-200 and PC client.
I and min other here DO NOT WANT THIS CRAP DRM.
There only a small hand user that want cable card and are will have put up with DRM carp wail the other 99% here say NO WAY.

[Brent]

SHS,
You could have multiple extenders work with a single CableCard tuner. You just couldn't have more than one computer with a CableCard tuner. That is unless you use multi-tuner CableCard and then you could use the newly approved tuner sharing.

Unless I'm missing what you're saying.

PS: I still don't think the fact that SageTV has PlayReady means they will have CableCard. Any time soon at least.

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by SHS

I take you didn't read it very well key problem

There for it will kill the Home DVR server with muli client in case more then one HD-200 and PC client.
I and min other here DO NOT WANT THIS CRAP DRM.
There only a small hand user that want cable card and are will have put up with DRM carp wail the other 99% here say NO WAY.

If that was the case the XBox would NOT be able to play PlayReady content when in fact it can. Same rules apply.

You are still missing the point... PlayReady can be an OPTION not mandatory. aka only used if needed (decode CC Tuner generated files)

I'm with the 99% about DRM. It sucks and ineffective, it doesn't deter piracy and hinders honest people's ability to do what they want with the media they purchased. But that is the only way we are going to get a CC.

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by Brent

SHS,
You could have multiple extenders work with a single CableCard tuner. You just couldn't have more than one computer with a CableCard tuner. That is unless you use multi-tuner CableCard and then you could use the newly approved tuner sharing.

Unless I'm missing what you're saying.

PS: I still don't think the fact that SageTV has PlayReady means they will have CableCard. Any time soon at least.

you are almost right. CC Tuners cannot be network encoders but the content they generate can be served to extenders. You can have multiple extenders connecting to one computer with a CC card. you can even have multiple computers on your network with CC cards installed but those computers will not be able to share the CC Tuners with each other (that would be classified as the cards being "network encoders")

I don't think SageTV will have CC anytime soon either put PlayReady plays a huge part in the possibility of having them at all.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by Brent

SHS,
You could have multiple extenders work with a single CableCard tuner. You just couldn't have more than one computer with a CableCard tuner. That is unless you use multi-tuner CableCard and then you could use the newly approved tuner sharing.

Unless I'm missing what you're saying.

PS: I still don't think the fact that SageTV has PlayReady means they will have CableCard. Any time soon at least.

That the problem the Ceton InfiniTV has multi-tuner dose it not have 4 Tuner even know it only has one input
2nd problem QAM and ATSC get DRM carp as well
3rd what good is it can't more then one cable card I like go with 8 tuner setup give 2 more backup recoding

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by SHS

That the problem the Ceton InfiniTV has multi-tuner dose it not have 4 Tuner even know it only has one input
2nd problem QAM and ATSC get DRM carp as well
3rd what good is it can't more then one cable card I like go with 8 tuner setup give 2 more backup recoding

What??

1st) why is the Ceton card a problem? Your statement did not make much sense. If I somewhat understand you correctly then...The type of card you get from your cable company determines how many feeds are unlocked, 1-4. Just like a real STB DVR can have only 1 line in and record multiple channels at once.
2nd) QAM and ATSC have nothing to do with CableCards or this utility.
3rd) You can have multiple CableCards in one computer... You just can't install them on one computer and try to use them as a network encoder from another.

[SHS]

If read this rigth from the Greenbutton own we site and I think it posted other place as well

Q. Can I share the Ceton InfiniTV 4 between multiple PCs over the network, similar to how I share my HDHomeRun now?

A. No. CableLabs requires that the entire OCUR device negotiate DRM pairing with only one PC at a time. This limitation will apply to all MOCURs and is not a Ceton-specific limitation. You can have multiple InfiniTV cards in a single machine and share them all out over a network to different machines, but each card can only pair to a single PC.

Maybe I miss some here but it Clear states a single PC at a time so there for the Server can not sent out 3/4 multiple steams at same time you know the as in same show I sure in hell don't want 4 of same recoding show in SageTV.

QAM and ATSC have nothing to do with CableCards or this utility.

That where you wrong I my case have a mix of ATSC and QAM not counting Analog reason being becuase some of ATSC channel look far better the QAM so there for I would want add at lease one Ceton InfiniTV for ATSC that free up a one 2250

[babgvant]

CableLabs recently changed the rules for DCTs, multiple PCs can pair to the same tuner device (i.e. how a HDHR works currently). Also, copy freely content does not need to be encrypted as it leaves the DCT (which was previously true).

My take is that a PlayReady license isn't going to remove or restrict any current functionality, it will only bring more good stuff to the ecosystem.

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by babgvant

CableLabs recently changed the rules for DCTs, multiple PCs can pair to the same tuner device (i.e. how a HDHR works currently). Also, copy freely content does not need to be encrypted as it leaves the DCT (which was previously true).

My take is that a PlayReady license isn't going to remove or restrict any current functionality, it will only bring more good stuff to the ecosystem.

Thank You. I agree with you 100%. I didn't know about the new rules, good stuff.

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by SHS

If read this rigth from the Greenbutton own we site and I think it posted other place as well

Maybe I miss some here but it Clear states a single PC at a time so there for the Server can not sent out 3/4 multiple steams at same time you know the as in same show I sure in hell don't want 4 of same recoding show in SageTV.


That where you wrong I my case have a mix of ATSC and QAM not counting Analog reason being becuase some of ATSC channel look far better the QAM so there for I would want add at lease one Ceton InfiniTV for ATSC that free up a one 2250

You own the site so you must know that they were talking about their cards being used as NETWORK ENCODERS, which I already said was not possible under the previous DCT rules.

[cyberwolf]

Originally Posted by SHS

If read this rigth from the Greenbutton own we site and I think it posted other place as well

Maybe I miss some here but it Clear states a single PC at a time so there for the Server can not sent out 3/4 multiple steams at same time you know the as in same show I sure in hell don't want 4 of same recoding show in SageTV.


That where you wrong I my case have a mix of ATSC and QAM not counting Analog reason being becuase some of ATSC channel look far better the QAM so there for I would want add at lease one Ceton InfiniTV for ATSC that free up a one 2250

One more thing before I go.

Just because you own a web site does not mean you are an expert on the content in contains because so far ALL of your points are barely coherent thoughts and/or written very poorly.

Maybe just maybe you should spend a little less time boasting about what you own and more time on your typing and grammer skills. I'm not perfect but at least people understand my words without going "What??"

With that I bid you farewell and thank you... I removed The Green Button link from all my browsers. I get the best answers and solutions from SageTV forums anyways.

[SHS]

That odd I didn't say I own green button
I said

If read this rigth from the Greenbutton own we site and I think it posted other place as well

Forgot add d to we = web and I after if sorry
If I read this rigth from the Greenbutton own web site and I think it posted other place as well.
Sure my grammer skills are not the best but I do try and what counts and there very good reason for that you see I'm part deaf/blind and ever been around any like that now do you unstand why my grammer skills are not so hot.
I own www.shspvr.com didn't see my web link in my reply post at the bottom?.
Beside as it stand now after doing some dig on greenbutton web site I hear that it need TA device what on top of the Ceton InfiniTV4 what going with Ceton frist was they support SDV but it turn on you need get the SDV Tuning Adapter from cable providers.
Yup I been out of loop for some

[tmiranda]

A license is granted to a single client (such as a media player) or a domain (such as a home network). The license will not function on other clients or other domains.

I read this to mean that the license will work in the entire Sage "domain". So a Ceton tuner could only be connected to one Sage server but the server may contain multiple clients (extenders, SageClients).

[stanger89]

A couple things:

1) I think they have the license for DRM WMA, IIRC a Windows SageTV PC can play DRM WMA.

2) There's no precident for allowing PC clients to play DRM'd recoridngs, or remote placeshifted clients (placeshifter definitely wouldn't work since I highly doubt ffmpeg will ever get PlayReady support), or linux, or Mac, so that will not work for a significant chunk of Sage clients.

I wouldn't be getting my hopes up.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by stanger89

1) I think they have the license for DRM WMA, IIRC a Windows SageTV PC can play DRM WMA.

I don't remember seeing that in the manual. Other than Zune marketplace, who sells PlayReady music?

Originally Posted by stanger89

2) There's no precident for allowing PC clients to play DRM'd recoridngs, or remote placeshifted clients (placeshifter definitely wouldn't work since I highly doubt ffmpeg will ever get PlayReady support), or linux, or Mac, so that will not work for a significant chunk of Sage clients.

Given that there's only one vendor in the space, the lack of precedent doesn't really mean anything. MS made choices with its extender platform that probably aren't applicable to how Sage approaches the market.

Is there a linux client? The server component + extender could support it w/o issue - keep in mind that PlayReady isn't a Windows only solution.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by babgvant

I don't remember seeing that in the manual. Other than Zune marketplace, who sells PlayReady music?

Wow, I didn't even think of that. If Sage could play my Zune Pass music that would be fantastic.

[gplasky]

It's one thing to have the license for PlayReady. It's another thing to implement on the devices you manufacture. They would probably need to look at a company like Irdeto. They actually work with Netflix to help implement the DRM on the Roku. BlueRay players, TV sets, etc. This link has some relevant info reagrding MS PlayReady and various other DRM techniques that are in play. http://www.irdeto.com/en/drm-hardene...supported.html


Gerry

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by babgvant

I don't remember seeing that in the manual. Other than Zune marketplace, who sells PlayReady music?

Well from a search I found at least one passing reference that Sage "should" play DRM'd WMA. Also found references to MusicMatch Jukebox using DRM WMA for their digital downloads a while back. And you could always try yourself, by DRM-ing a CD you rip, that's always an option.

Also found that the V5.1 release added detection for WM DRM.

Given that there's only one vendor in the space, the lack of precedent doesn't really mean anything. MS made choices with its extender platform that probably aren't applicable to how Sage approaches the market.

Is there a linux client? The server component + extender could support it w/o issue - keep in mind that PlayReady isn't a Windows only solution.

The point is more though that we don't know the certification issues of trying to get that worked out. Will MS certify one PC playing content tied to another or are CC recording irrevocably locked to the recording PC?

It's more an open question than anything, Sage brings a lot of new complications to the table that they'd have to work out and get certified.

And as for linux, no PlayReady isn't Windows-only, but IIRC Sage uses mplayer for playback on linux (and Mac and Placeshifter too I think). mplayer is GPL which I think would make it quite "interesting" getting PlayReady built into Placeshifter.