Unable to get Guide data for OTA channel that has data at Zap2it

[wayner]

I am having trouble getting guide data mapped in for one of my OTA channels - it is channel 51-2 which is channel WPXJDT2 or Qubo in Buffalo, NY. It has a channel ID of 64284 and you can see that Zap2it has data for it by going to http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti...o?stnNum=64284

I have set this channel up in Sage as follows:
Local (Guide) Chan # 51-2
Physical (Tuning) Chan # 23-51-2
Station: QUBO, ID:64284
Desc: QUBO
(Enabled)

As long as Zap2it has guide data for Channel ID# 64284 then I should be getting data, correct? And Zap2it must have the data if I can see it from the web link above, correct?

I have tried forcing several EPG updates using the Web Server to no avail.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Previously the channel had a channel ID# of 24 and was getting some guide data but it was very spotty. So I deleted the channel that was there and started over. Other subchannels on the same channel I have not tried to fix and also are very spotty. I presume that this data is coming via the OTA PSIP info and that is why it was spotty.

[Opus4]

Check this FAQ:

Some of my channels have no Program Guide data, but other channels do and their data is getting updated. Why do some channels have no data?

Maybe it is an OTA channel (covered in the FAQ).

-Andy

[wayner]

I read that in the FAQ Andy. This is an OTA only channel for me, but I don't think it is OTA for everyone. And doesn't Sage get the data from Zap2it? As long as the channel ID has info at Zap2it then shouldn't Sage be able to get the data?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by wayner

As long as the channel ID has info at Zap2it then shouldn't Sage be able to get the data?

As the FAQ says: not if it really is OTA-only.

- Andy

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Opus4

As the FAQ says: not if it really is OTA-only.

Not disputing but why is that? Licensing reasons?

[wayner]

Opus4(Andy) I guess this is for you, but if someone else can help that would be great.

Here are two links to channel listings on Zap2it.
http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti...4&channel=51.2
http://tvlistings.zap2it.com/tvlisti...6&channel=51.2

If you click on them you will see that they both provide the same guide data so that zap2it has data for both of these channels. But the first ChannelID (64284) will not produce data in Sage but the second one (54596) will. Channel 64284 is OTA channel 51-2 WPXJ-DT2 in Buffalo, NY that shows Qubo, a kids channel. ChannelID 54596 is the Pittsburgh, PA version of the same channel that happens to be offered on Comcast Cable in Pittsburgh.

I know that Sage says that data for OTA-only channels may not be available, but why is that the case? If zap2it is the source for Sage EPG and zap2it has the data then why doesn't this feed through to Sage?

Is it a licensing issue - ie. Sage only has a license to use EPG data for channels offered on cable or satellite? That would seem unusual since there can't be all that many of these and surely the zap2it licensing fees shouldn't be any more expensive to add these channels, should they?

[Opus4]

SageTV (the company) doesn't get the EPG data for free & OTA-only data isn't part of the data set that they pay for.

- Andy

[wayner]

Thanks - then here is a suggestion to SageTV. When you renegotiate your contract with zap2it then consider adding OTA-only channels. Surely it couldn't add that much to the contract fee, could it?

[Christoph3D]

Originally Posted by Opus4

SageTV (the company) doesn't get the EPG data for free & OTA-only data isn't part of the data set that they pay for.

So if I'm using SageTV with (free) OTA channels only, then I won't get any channel listings?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Christoph3D

So if I'm using SageTV with (free) OTA channels only, then I won't get any channel listings?

You may not get channel listings for OTA channels which don't exist in any cable or satellite lineups - i.e. channels that are only available on OTA and not by any other means.

[vikingisson]

Originally Posted by wayner

You may not get channel listings for OTA channels which don't exist in any cable or satellite lineups - i.e. channels that are only available on OTA and not by any other means.

OK, no EPG for OTA only. So we remap to IDs that are on cable tv. Fine, that worked. But now *all* Canadian stations are missing EPG. Checked and rechecked zap2it, forced update, waited, etc but no Canuck channels. U.S. EPG is still working on the same tuner. Is this another 'licensing' issue all of a sudden? Rather useless without an EPG.

[Christoph3D]

well... a couple of days later the channel listing just showed up. Not sure what happened, maybe it just needed to register? But now it works great. all OTA channels show up and future rerun airings and everything register also, it's great!

[wayner]

Originally Posted by vikingisson

OK, no EPG for OTA only. So we remap to IDs that are on cable tv. Fine, that worked. But now *all* Canadian stations are missing EPG. Checked and rechecked zap2it, forced update, waited, etc but no Canuck channels. U.S. EPG is still working on the same tuner. Is this another 'licensing' issue all of a sudden? Rather useless without an EPG.

I have been away for a while but no issues here with my Canadian or US guide data.

[wacole]

Just like to put in my 2 cents on licensing for OTA EPG data. We're an OTA-only household and while we get EPG data on most of the channels, there are a few key ones that are missing which, I guess, are OTA-only. Hope that the next release of SageTV simplifies the EPG setup process. I find it truly mystifying.

Thanks very much.

[vikingisson]

The OTA EPG issues are a big problem for some of us especially considering that EPG is vital to any HTPC. I don't use any cable or sat services so I have to do the silly tricks to get EPG back on track. And if you're in Canada it is extra fun. It has been all but officially stated that OTA EPG is not a priority for sage.

I'd like to hear it officially one way or the other, will OTA EPG *never* be included? To be clear, mine is working fine for the time being but not before a painful routine of trickery setting things up more than once. More than a few people have asked me to setup their own sagetv and frankly I don't want to become a full time no pay support connection for them. sales lost.

Is it that expensive to include OTA EPG? While we're at it how about having setup options that let us quickly changing the ID instead of how we do it now? I've been tempted to upgrade to v7 but not if this same problem is to continue.

[wacole]

Here's a thought: if the issue is additional cost for OTA-only EPG data from ZapIt, is it possible to construct an add-on that one could buy from SageTV that would provide this service. Obviously I have no idea about the market for such a product [which would affect the price charged] nor do I know what ZapIt would charge SageTV, both of which would affect the feasibility of this proposal.

I'd also expect that there's an argument to be made that if I'm paying for cable EPG data and can't make use of it, why would I pay extra for OTA data which I do need to make proper use of SageTV. You all need a tough guy to negotiate w/ZapIt.