HD200's & SageMC eye candy

[SomeWhatLost]

just curious, But has anyone put together a 'suggested add ons' pack for the HD200's?
ie:
SageMC
Imovies (or whatever is the best movie picker thingy)
???
???
???

ie what are the 'must haves'

[Brent]

Funny you should ask that. I have a blog post going up with a title very similar to your forum post...

Short List:

• SageMC
• BMT
• Web Server
• AnyDVD (not SageTV directly but a must-have for my setup)
• Comskip (or ShowAnalyzer)
• DVRMSToolbox (or DirMon2)

There are others in the list, but those are the main ones

[SomeWhatLost]

what does BMT do?

also, what is phoenix? is ready yet? is it a replacement for sagemc? will it work on the extenders?

[PiX64]

BMT = Batch Metadata Tools and along with Neilms web interface, SageMovieWall, TVExplorer, and Comskip is one of the best tools out there.

BMT allows you to manage many aspects of your setups metadata. Movies, REcorded Shows, IMport Directories, etc.

It has a very nice built in web interface that allows you to manage many previously "not easily managable aspects of Sage" in my opinion.

Phoenix is not a replacement for any UI. I don't know all that much about it, but from what i can gather it is a new set of standard API's which can be utilized by programmers to accomplish some amazing tasks.

See - TVExplorer, Sage MovieWall (just to name a few) to get an idea of what this powerful set of API's allows programmers to do.

[SomeWhatLost]

as far as BMT goes, I just need to officially say Doh!! I have been using that since I installed sage... I should of known that one well I think it was BMT, it was some sort of automatic metadata thingy...
well, technically I don't use it... it does its own thing though... very much in the background on its own... haven't used any web interfaces, and I don't really ever manage anything... does sage need management? seems ok when just left on its own?
do things like BMT get updated? is the one from like a year ago still ok?

[razrsharpe]

Originally Posted by PiX64

BPhoenix is not a replacement for any UI. I don't know all that much about it, but from what i can gather it is a new set of standard API's which can be utilized by programmers to accomplish some amazing tasks.

it doesn't have a UI component yet but it definitely will at some point

[JetreL]

What about the PlayOn plugin??? I think it's definitely a must have!

[toricred]

BMT has been updated several times in the last year. Heck in the last week or so it's been updated 7 times or so (all beta releases fixing bugs found in version 4). The new version works much better in my environment and I couldn't live without it at this point.

[SomeWhatLost]

well, last night I made the mistake of trying to spice up my sage a bit...
turns out my auto metadata thing was not BMT (or was a very, very early predecessor), so I figure I would start there...
found the instructions:

1. Install Jetty
2. Extract BMT archive to SageTV Home
3. Restart SageTV Server
4. goto http://localhost:8080/bmt/

looks simple enough...
um, but wait, whats this?1. Install Jetty. wtf is a jetty? where do you find a jetty and what are you suppose to do with it when you find it?
why do plug-in makers assume us stupid users, who just want sage to work, are as smart and knowledgeable as they are????

ok, so I google jetty, its some sort of java web server thingy... good enough I guess... I try to down load it, now I have two choices go to site a and get an older version, or go to site b and get a newer version... wtf... so I go back and look at step one of the insturctions: 1. Install Jetty, um that's not much help really... so I just go grab the newest version (7.something), open it and the is no install thingy, so back to google to figure out how to install it...
ok, so it is installed, sort of, do I make it a service or something? how does it tie back in with sage? I go back and look at the BMT instructions: 1. Install Jetty, um still not as helpful as you would think it could be...
maybe this isn't the 'right' jetty? could there be others?
so I try searching sage forums for 'Install Jetty', well I didn't put quotes around it, or a + between the words, so I get a billion hits on 'install'... I phrase the search better and find 'jetty_helper'... at this point I think I really need some jetty help...
I get Jetty helper installed, looking at the sage log thingy, it says jetty has started, should be good now right? so I do steps 2 & 3... seems good so far...
get to step 4, the holy grail of sorts... 404 page not found... wtf?!?!?!?
go back and check step 1. Install Jetty, I have installed more jetty then I ever want to ever deal with again, I am sick of jetty, but 1. Install Jetty is still not very helpful...
after messing around with stuff, I accidentally import the BMT STV in sage... that was a vary bad idea... ok so now I have a black screen... nothing seems to make it go away... so I go to control panal and uninstall sage...
then reinstall sage... still black screen... wtf?
go back unistall again, seems windows didn't really uninstall anything...
so I nuke the sage folder and try again...
well, its all installed again, saved my properties & wiz file so all my setting should be good? but for some reason, ch 2,7,9,32 all show no data in the guide... comskip no worky... oh, and localhost:8080/bmt still has no love for me...


I long for the good old BTV days where things just worked...

[Fuzzy]

did you search on the sage forums for jetty? perhaps in the download section? why 'stupid users' assume google always has the answers for everything? If you had, you would have found the 'Jetty Plugin' in the download section. That's all you need. there is also a thread for BMT that would be an excellent place to ask questions as they arrise. This place is very helpful, but you have to ask.

Ranting and raving about how horrible the instructions are does NOT constitute asking for help.

[razrsharpe]

mmmmm.... the bmt thread has an installation guide (sflamm's Install Guide) linked to in the top of the first post... i would start there... I just looked at the installation guide and explains everything required to get BMT up and running (in detail)... there is also a jetty thread that has support for getting it installed correctly

like fuzzy said we're a very helpful group but you have to ask questions....

oh and one more thing... the reason your screen went black after "importing" the BMT stvi is because you actually loaded it as a full STV (not import into the current STV). To get back to a working setup:
-close sage
-open the sageclient.properties (or sage.properties if not using service mode, or \clients\MACAddress.properties if connecting from an extender)
-delete the line that starts with STV=
-start sage

[SomeWhatLost]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Ranting and raving about how horrible the instructions are does NOT constitute asking for help.

I wasn't asking for help, my goal was purely Ranting & Raving...

that said, I do appreciate the help razrsharpe gave, but his first part goes back and proves my point/rant some what...
you point to an older version of BMT and say hey look, here are good instructions... but the first version any unsuspecting noob come across is Metadata Tools 4.0 Beta Thread (aka BMT 4.0) that has a documentation link that leads here how is a poor noob to know that they don't want that thread they want the older version??? especially with the ongoing theme with any software is you always want the latest/greatest??


FWIW, I did stay up too late last night messing with sage, and I am now grumpy/cranky...

also for the record while it looks like I was ranting/raving against stuckless/BMT... that is just an unfortunate coincidence... stuckless/BMT were just the nearest innocent bystanders/victims in all this...

[razrsharpe]

Originally Posted by SomeWhatLost

I wasn't asking for help, my goal was purely Ranting & Raving...

i guess the point is if you ask for help before you nuke your system then you'll save yourself a lot banging your head against the wall and (hopefully) won't need to rant and rave

you point to an older version of BMT and say hey look, here are good instructions... but the first version any unsuspecting noob come across is Metadata Tools 4.0 Beta Thread (aka BMT 4.0)

yes i can see your point; however, the thread is labeled BETA, explicitly warns people that it is beta code, contains bugs, and that should only be installed if the user is comfortable running beta code, was only released into public beta a week ago, and assumes that the people who will/are upgrading to the bleeding edge of BMT have been users of BMT for sometime and are familiar with its setup and history.

[SomeWhatLost]

Originally Posted by razrsharpe

yes i can see your point; however, the thread is labeled BETA, explicitly warns people that it is beta code, contains bugs, and that should only be installed if the user is comfortable running beta code, was only released into public beta a week ago, and assumes that the people who will/are upgrading to the bleeding edge of BMT have been users of BMT for sometime and are familiar with its setup and history.

so we should avoid Beta's now?
BTV's beta's tended to be very stable, CQC's beta's are extremely stable, I update my HD200's with Beta code and they haven't had any real issues...
from the movie wall plug in:

Currently in Public Beta*** (I say this mostly as phoenix sage, and sagemc are in beta as well)

so should we avoid Moviewall, Phoenix & sagemc too?
or is this a case where you just need to somehow know the difference between beta and beta?
besides... I don't think any of my issues were truly because of BMT itself (beta or no beta)... just more like install issues...

[Fuzzy]

No, of course we shouldn't avoid beta's... if you understand what that means... Incomplete software released for public testing purposes... however, if you are the type to see a bug, or insufficient documentation, and fly off the handle with pointless rants... maybe you shouldn't bother...

[SomeWhatLost]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

No, of course we shouldn't avoid beta's... if you understand what that means...

no I don't, why don't you explain it to me?

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

however, if you are the type to see a bug, or insufficient documentation, and fly off the handle with pointless rants...

actually I thought it was a very pointed rant... and I dont recall flying off of any handles recently... or even being on one to fly off of...

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

maybe you shouldn't bother...

you are probably right, I will take that under advisement.

[Brent]

This isn't really going anywhere good...

My .01 cent:
Help is available if anyone needs it - just ask. Documentation for some of the beta plugins might be dated - it's one of the many risks of beta plugins. I know it can be frustrating as a user. But from a different perspective, it's nice to have so many different options and to have new features being developed right before our eyes with the opportunity to contribute in different ways is exciting and welcomed. It's not for everyone though so sometimes it's best to avoid those if looking for something more plug & play.

SageTV and it's many plugins/configurability etc does require more work and more knowledge than BTV for certain. But for me it's worth it.

By the way, once you do get BMT up and running it's a pretty amazing thing. I use it along with the included web app & it adds quite a bit to the HTPC setup. It's certainly not required by any means though and it's not 100% complete either hence the beta title.

[Brent]

One more thing. I try to update the SageTV How-to landing page on GeekTonic pretty regularly and a how-to on setting up & using BMT is on my to-do list. There are many other tutorials on the list as well if interested.

[dgeezer]

Brent,

You're always a voice of reason on the forums.I want to thank you for all your work on the sage tutorials and reviews. I wish SageTV would hire you to rewrite their documentation and their website..... Your first review of the HD100 is what brought me to SageTV some 3.5 years ago. I made the jump from GBpvr and a setup using PC clients to using extenders and it has been a great change. My setup is much easier for the family to use now. The extenders aren't perfect but they are predictable and reliable and require no tweaking from me.

That said, I feel somewhatlost's pain. I have read a little about BMT on the forums, but it just seems way too complex for me. I'm already a step ahead since I have jetty running for SJQ, but it was a major pain for me to understand and set up. I'm not complaining, it's just that all my knowledge of pc's comes from my messing with my HTPC. I am a carpenter with a degree in Hprticulture. My only formal computer training was a Fortran Course in college where we used punch cards (1977).

Part of the problem is probably people like me. I have a working system that is actually quite nice and functional. However, I'm not exactly sure how I got everything set up or even what steps I took along the way. I sometimes feel like I should do more to help other people with their systems, but I'm afraid I might do more harm than good. I think that one of the most unfortunate nomenclature mistakes is this whole STV STVi thing. Why can't we have skins and plug-ins like the rest of the world? I know SageMC is way more than a skin, but to the uninitiated the result is the same thing, it changes the appearance.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by dgeezer

Brent,

You're always a voice of reason on the forums.I want to thank you for all your work on the sage tutorials and reviews. I wish SageTV would hire you to rewrite their documentation and their website.....

Thanks so much for the kind words. Not sure I'd want the daunting task of documentation though They really do a good job on the SageTV user manual in my opinion - it's long, but extremely detailed and I still refer to it on occasion.
Where most people (especially newcomers) run into trouble is with the add-ons and even the many setting changes in the core SageTV product. It's a powerful tool and that makes the learning curve higher. The plugins and custom UIs do get complicated and thats where I've tried to take time every so often to do tutorials from the non-programmers perspective. As many of the plugin developers will tell you, I'm NOT an expert by any means. I myself need "training wheels" so-to-speak when I jump in and I try to use that to my advantage by taking bunches of notes and doing a writeup in hopes of helping others in the same situation.

Your first review of the HD100 is what brought me to SageTV some 3.5 years ago. I made the jump from GBpvr and a setup using PC clients to using extenders and it has been a great change. My setup is much easier for the family to use now. The extenders aren't perfect but they are predictable and reliable and require no tweaking from me.

The extenders make things so much easier. Easier for those who don't want to mess with their PC all the time and easier for those serving multiple TV sets in the home.

That said, I feel somewhatlost's pain. I have read a little about BMT on the forums, but it just seems way too complex for me.

Its not plug & play for sure. But if I got BMT working I can tell you it's possible - even for an accountant like myself I'm working on a writeup for getting the basics of BMT set up, but am in the process of updating it for BMT 4 since its new and changed a few things.


If anyone would like to contribute how-to's, stories about their HTPC setup, thier opinions on hardware/software etc let me know - I can help get it on GeekTonic. Alternatively, let me know what how-to's you would like to see