New DVB(T/S/C) Network Recorder

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by owilsky

just donated for DVB Viewer Recoder four weeks ago *sigh* .

There is a discount for upgrading from DVBViewer Recorder to the new one.

Would it be possible in a future version to optionally write program streams instead of transport streams? I guess not but asking does not hurt...
Reason is that Placeshifter does not really like TS files... see my post in DVB Viewer Recorder thread.

Nope, I studied the possibility a long time ago for another problem I was having a few years ago, and it's too much trouble to go from TS to PS (and it will probably not solve the problem and introduce new ones... SageTV has to handle TS files properly. Also as I'm now totally in control with the new recoder if I can spot some obvious issue in the TS timings, I'll be able to add some workarounds)

Which audio channels are saved into the TS file, all that come down from the satellite from that particular channel? Wouldn't that be a waste of disk space

All elementary streams within the channel PMT are dumped to the disk. I don't want to filter streams because as for today streams are easy to identify audio / video / etc... but if you try to get smart and filter video / audio, whenever a new stream type will be introduced (new audio / video codec) => then the recorder will not write it to the disk and you get the H264 / AAC / EAC3 issues all DVB software have suffered from when these new streams appeared.

Well let's see how this one does its job for the next days, I hope to miss no recordings

In 1.1 there is automatic recovery when the service crash.

Anyway from my own usage patterns I have not encountered any troubles so far (making two / three recording a day, sometimes two HD recordings at once either from the same transponder, so using the same card, or from two transponders using two different cards)

The only troubles I had were on my Cinergy 2400i: it was stopping delivering packets (but I had the same thing with DVBViewer, except with my recorder when it stops, it stops proprerly whereas DVBViewer was including in the file some really bad packets so video + sound was horrible at then end of file). I since have upgraded the Cinergy drivers and I'm not seeing this anymore (by the way bad bad job from Terratec here: the new drivers only accept plain frequency now: all my transponders are using an offset of 116 Khz, for instance 474166 Mhz is the real frequency for tuning. The Cinergy now only accepts 474000 and doesn't tune to 474166 and this is really not a clever thing to do... what were they thinking...)

I also find my recorder to output much cleaner recordings: with DVBViewer on H264 channels the first few frames where seriously fucked up and that's pretty bad with an ATI video card because the initial glitch propagate to the other good frames for sometimes more than a minute or two. So when watching Live TV, program boundaries were kinda pyschedelic. I don't see this anymore with my recorder. So I'm very happy I created this recorder even if it was not easy.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[owilsky]

OK, watched a favorite while it was being recorded (timeshifted) and there are some glitches which weren't in the TS files DVBViewer created.
Difficult to explain, but the show had 15 minutes padding before the start. When jumping there I had problems skipping through the commercials (without comskip plugin, simply by skipping forward). And when the show began I saw 2 or 3 seconds of the beginning of the padding which does not belong there.
I tried to recreate it later but I couldn't. Maybe because the file was not recording anymore, it was complete. Can this be an issue?

I did all testing with SageTV Media Center 6.6.2 with native recording patch 10.
Something's not OK here, maybe it is SageTV's fault, but DVBViewer's files were better.

Any idea?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by owilsky

OK, watched a favorite while it was being recorded (timeshifted) and there are some glitches which weren't in the TS files DVBViewer created.

You mean you noticed an issue that you have never experienced with DVBViewer recordings?

Because I'm sure that you were not being able to record the same show at the same time with DVBViewer and my recorder .

The glitches you are referring to: are they continuity errors (a video frame with artifacts) or are they only the navigation issue within SageTV?

I saw 2 or 3 seconds of the beginning of the padding which does not belong there. I tried to recreate it later but I couldn't. Maybe because the file was not recording anymore, it was complete. Can this be an issue?

Yes when the file is currently recording it is always more difficult to skip within the file than when the recording is over (I noticed this even with DVBViewer, it takes more time and disk is spinning like hell when you navigate inside a live recording). Also my recorder is using asynchronous disk write, and I think that the way windows does this is:

1) allocate the bytes needed to be written on the file (filling them or not with 0)
2) write the actual bytes

So it's very likely that SageTV can read erroneous data at the end of the file before it's currently written to with the good data (and obviously when jumping into the file you have to know where the file ends so as you don't skip outside the bounds of the file, this may explains erratic jumps).

You can disable asynchronous I/O but it is not something I recommend to do because when not using async I/O the recorder has to wait for data being written to the disk before doing another task.

You can also set the write buffer size to 64 Kb (instead of "Auto") as it will write more often to the disk (CPU usage will be a little higher though) and more quickly.

I did all testing with SageTV Media Center 6.6.2 with native recording patch 10.

I'm also using the recorder on SageTV 6 and Native patch 10 on my main HTPC.

Anyway, I'm currently adding some new features in the recorder (CRC checking for PSI tables to discard the tables that are known to be corrupted) and discarding packets that (for me) have decoding errors (currently those are written to the recorded file), I'll test it inhouse before releasing a new version.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[owilsky]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

You mean you noticed an issue that you have never experienced with DVBViewer recordings?

Yes.

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Because I'm sure that you were not being able to record the same show at the same time with DVBViewer and my recorder .

Not at the same time of course. I have a daily favorite which records a news show. The files were perfect playable when they were recorded by DVBViewer the last weeks. And yesterday's recodring was just the first recorded by your recorder

Originally Posted by StephaneM

The glitches you are referring to: are they continuity errors (a video frame with artifacts) or are they only the navigation issue within SageTV?

Normally only after navigation. But once when the padding was over and the actual how began there was played 2 oder 3 seconds of the beginning of the file, then the actual show began.

So it's very likely that SageTV can read erroneous data at the end of the file before it's currently written to with the good data (and obviously when jumping into the file you have to know where the file ends so as you don't skip outside the bounds of the file, this may explains erratic jumps).

But the erroneous data was not at the end but in the middle of the file (10-15 minutes before the end).

Once SageTV 7 is stable enough for me I will test that, the native recording patch is included and even improved in V7, let's hope that V7 will play TS files better.

Regards,
Oliver

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by owilsky

But the erroneous data was not at the end but in the middle of the file (10-15 minutes before the end).

It doesn't matter. When you want to "jump" into the file, you have to compute where to jump. The problematic is the following:

* you want to jump xx seconds
* file is not natively time stamped, the only thing you can do is jump yy bytes

So you have to find out how much yy bytes are for xx seconds. To do this you have:

* the current file length
* the current start time
* the current end time

You can therefore compute : file length / (end time - start time) => bytes / second

If file length, end time or start time are somehow bogus the value of bytes / second will also be nonsense.

What seems to be an issue for SageTV and many DVB applications is when the end time is less that the start time. In DVB this is perfectly valid as the clock for the recording can be reset (not necessarily to 0) at anytime. Therefore to compute the duration : you have to find out at what time the clock was reset; this usually means you have to parse the whole recording... not so efficient.

I'll add a trace log for this particular event, so that you know the clock was reset and that it may explain weird behaviors on recordings.

Of course I could very well rewrite the times in the stream so that they are always monotonous, but I'm afraid this can screw up everything in the stream...

Regards,
Stéphane.

[StephaneM]

Hi All,

I uploaded version 1.2 of the recorder. A lot of changes in this version for increased compatibility with different OS environment (should work everywhere including WHS verified on WHS Power Pack 3). I also include in this release a bug free MDAPIFilter.ax.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[owilsky]

I have two issues with 1.2:

1.
In live trace the message column is always empty for me.

2.
When rebooting my Sage machine, LM Smart Recorder service does not start automatically although when I start services.msc I see that start type is automatic. I can start the service manually then without any problems.

BTW: I have DVBViewer Recorder running on port 9090 but disabled all channels in that lineup. Smart Recorder is running on port 9091 with the channels enabled. This way I can quickly switch between those two solutions on problems.

If I remember correctly I had this issue (not starting the service) also on V1.1. Got my first baby last week and while being away for three days I missed some recordings while using Smart Recorder. I remember that I rebooted my machine before leaving... (Win7 Home Premium 32 bit).

Oliver

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by owilsky

In live trace the message column is always empty for me.

Open the settings.xml file (from the Config & Log folder) in Notepad and check out the <TraceWindowState> node. You'll find here the width of each column: replace the value of MessageColumnWidth with an integer (or remove the node completely), I guess that you have a non integer value in there...

When rebooting my Sage machine, LM Smart Recorder service does not start automatically although when I start services.msc I see that start type is automatic. I can start the service manually then without any problems.

You should review the logs. But I guess this is because you also have to DVBViewer Recorder service running. You should disable it in the Services Management Console.

I have DVBViewer Recorder running on port 9090 but disabled all channels in that lineup. Smart Recorder is running on port 9091 with the channels enabled. This way I can quickly switch between those two solutions on problems.

Instead of doing this: switch DVBViewer Recorder on port 9091 and enable all the channels you need but disable the service. This way if you want to switch from LM DSR to DVBViewer Recorder, the only thing you have to do is to enable and disable the service you want to use (so they should use the same recorder configuration, this avoid having anything to do in SageTV when you want to switch from one recorder service to the other)

Got my first baby last week and while being away for three days

Congrats

Regards,
Stéphane.

[owilsky]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

(or remove the node completely)

OK, that did the trick. Thanks.

You should review the logs. But I guess this is because you also have to DVBViewer Recorder service running. You should disable it in the Services Management Console.

OK, disabled DVBViewer Recorder service. Does not change anything, LM Smart Recorder does not start or at least is not started when I check it.
Deleted old logs before reboot. After that the log contains only one line:

20100807 17:47:05.493 - Info - LM DVB Smart Recorder Service version 1.2.3870.30007 initialized

So I think the service starts and crashes then, right?
After starting the service manually this is in the service log:

20100807 17:52:10.836 - Info - LM DVB Smart Recorder Service version 1.2.3870.30007 initialized
20100807 17:52:10.926 - Info - Windows Version : Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium  (Microsoft Windows NT 6.1.7600.0)
20100807 17:52:11.202 - Info - Found MS PSI Parser Psisdecd.dll version 6.6.7600.16485 in C:\Windows\System32\PsisDecd.dll
20100807 17:52:11.232 - Info - Found MS PSI Parser Psisdecd.dll version 6.6.7600.16485 in C:\Windows\System32\psisdecd.dll
20100807 17:52:11.422 - Info - Found DVB-S card (using Generic Network Provider) : USB 2.0 BDA DVB-S Tuner #1
20100807 17:52:11.456 - Info - Recorder 'DVB Smart Recorder' listening on 127.0.0.1:9091
20100807 17:52:11.555 - Info - LM DVB Smart Recorder Service version 1.2.3870.30007 started

But even when the service is started it does not work reliably for me. After waking my machine from standby in "setup video sources" I got a "Functioning: false", even after waiting several minutes. After a service restart it went fine. I can reproduce this every time my machine wakes up from standby.

Using SageTV 7.0.14 BTW.
DVB Viewer Recorder always worked fine and reliable (as reliable as a network encoder could work, I would prefer a good build-in-support for DVB-S in SageTV)

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by owilsky

LM Smart Recorder does not start or at least is not started when I check it.
Deleted old logs before reboot. After that the log contains only one line:

20100807 17:47:05.493 - Info - LM DVB Smart Recorder Service version 1.2.3870.30007 initialized

So I think the service starts and crashes then, right?

Most probaly, what is odd is that it stops before even doing anything.... Can you see something in the Windows Event Viewer?

But even when the service is started it does not work reliably for me. After waking my machine from standby in "setup video sources" I got a "Functioning: false", even after waiting several minutes. After a service restart it went fine. I can reproduce this every time my machine wakes up from standby.

I have not verified if the service is behaving properly with standby / resume (I don't use standby my HTPC is always on as it is also acting as a phone answering machine)

I'll check if it is doing what it is supposed to (upon standby the recorders should shut down -including TCP network listeners -; upon resuming the recorder will restart - TCP listeners restart - but only reactivate the DVB cards after the hardware restart delay)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[owilsky]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Most probaly, what is odd is that it stops before even doing anything.... Can you see something in the Windows Event Viewer?

Yes, two entries:

1.
Das Zeitlimit (30000 ms) wurde beim Verbindungsversuch mit dem Dienst LM DVB Smart Recorder for SageTV erreicht.

2.
Der Dienst "LM DVB Smart Recorder for SageTV" wurde aufgrund folgenden Fehlers nicht gestartet:
Der Dienst antwortete nicht rechtzeitig auf die Start- oder Steuerungsanforderung.

I will try to translate it from German into English:

1.
The time limit (30000 ms) was reached while trying to connect with the service LM Smart Recorder for SageTV

2.
The service  "LM DVB Smart Recorder for SageTV" was not started because of this error:
The service did not respond in time for the request to start or to control.

Hope my English translation is not too far away from the actual English error messages, but I guess you have a French Windows, right?

I have not verified if the service is behaving properly with standby / resume (I don't use standby my HTPC is always on as it is also acting as a phone answering machine)
I'll check if it is doing what it is supposed to (upon standby the recorders should shut down -including TCP network listeners -; upon resuming the recorder will restart - TCP listeners restart - but only reactivate the DVB cards after the hardware restart delay)

As far as I remember you implemented similar code into DVBViewer Recorder. Couldn't you just copy parts of that code into Smart Recorder? DVBViewer Recorder worked beautifully after resuming from standby.

Maybe the TCP listeners restart before the hardware restarts? Could that be a problem? I left the hardware restart delay unchanged (20 seconds).

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by owilsky

As far as I remember you implemented similar code into DVBViewer Recorder. Couldn't you just copy parts of that code into Smart Recorder? DVBViewer Recorder worked beautifully after resuming from standby.

With DVBViewer Recorder (from memory) the network listener are not stopped at all when standing by. Though for allowing the PC to standby in the first place what the recorder is doing is shutting down DVBViewer. DVBViewer is then only restarted when needed for a recording.

So we cannot really compare how the two recorders are working here.

Anyway I'll check here if I can reproduce the two issues and will let you know.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[rtengvad]

Hi Stephane

I've invested in your new smart recorder but it can't find any channels. This is what the log says if eg. I try to scan DVB-C frq. 506000, rate 6875, qam 64:

20100810 20:38:44.023 - Info - Forwarding scan request on frequency 506000 to recorder service...
20100810 20:38:52.164 - Info - No signal received...
20100810 20:38:54.158 - Info - Recorder Service has found 0 channel(s) on frequency 506000
20100810 20:38:54.160 - Info - Finally added or updated 0 channels on frequency 506000

DVBviewer has no problems in finding channels

Thanks

Rasmus

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rtengvad

I've invested in your new smart recorder but it can't find any channels. This is what the log says if eg. I try to scan DVB-C frq. 506000, rate 6875, qam 64:

You'll have to send me all your logs (through the LM DSR taskbar notification icon). I'm not familiare with cable, the frequency seems ok (must be in KHz), for the Symbol rate, I'm not sure (it seems also ok)...

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Mark SS]

Anybody had any success with this new encoder and an MDAPI plugin e.g. NDSCAM?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

Anybody had any success with this new encoder and an MDAPI plugin e.g. NDSCAM?

I don't know if anyone tried yet and I cannot test it myself, I only verified that some plug-ins were loading correctly and doing their jobs (I verified 4 plug-ins and embedded card client in the MDAPIFilter). So I guess you'll have to try for yourself (Use the included MDAPIFilter.ax, see the FAQ for MDAPI)

If you want to test it's easy: install the recorder, install MDAPI, create a recorder, do a channel scan, enable MDAPI, restart the recorders. Then make a test recording on a free to air channel (right click on the channel in the lineup.This is to a least verify that all is ok with free to air, and also create the plug-in folder). The configure your plug-in and make a test recording with an encrypted channel.

Note: when the recorder is installed it doesn't "lock" the DVB card (unless when using them), so you can install it without using it with SageTV, it will not change anything to your actual setup.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[rtengvad]

Originally Posted by rtengvad

it can't find any channels.

I restarted the pc and it started to find channels. The problem is that it seems to find the same 36 channels no matter what freq. I type. For example 370, 370000, 370000000 or even 0, all give the same result: The result is that I get a channel list with eg. a BBC E on freq 370, A BBC E listed at freq 370000, and again at freq 0 etc.

Tell me what you need.

Rasmus

[rtengvad]

OK, I can see that it is the channels from the same transponder that DVBviewer had opened on that tuner just a moment before. Trying the other tuner still no channels found. Logs sent to you.

Rasmus

[Mark SS]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

I don't know if anyone tried yet and I cannot test it myself, I only verified that some plug-ins were loading correctly and doing their jobs (I verified 4 plug-ins and embedded card client in the MDAPIFilter).

I'll hopefully give it a shot later this week. One question in advance, have you implemented any hooks to the windows sleep/wake events? I ask as I suspect most of the issues I've had with DVBE4Sage are with it (or more likely the MDAPI plugin I'm using with it) failing after sleep/wake.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by rtengvad

OK, I can see that it is the channels from the same transponder that DVBviewer had opened on that tuner just a moment before.

The DVB-C support was broken in the latest version, I sent you a fixed version, let me know if it works.

Regards,
Stéphane.