Audio Receiver for Blu-ray HD sound (recommendations)

[larryf]

Can anyone suggest a decent 'low end' (OK, low budget) DTS-MA capable receiver?

Trying to do Blu-ray on Sage with my existing DTS (not DTS-MA) receiver, and I'm having difficulties beyond my tolerance level... Really want 5.1 with decent sound but do not want to continue in 'codec hell' anymore. The last 2 blu-ray movies I tried had the English track at DTS-MA only.

I've decided a hardware solution would be better, one that doesn't require rips and conversions....

Larry

[Fuzzy]

Get an HD-300.

[civerson4]

Onkyo has some very nice mid-range receivers that decode all the HD audio formats. Check out www.accessories4less.com if you don't mind factory refurbs. I purchased a 508 model for my home gym last year for next to nothing and it turned out to be way more receiver than I need for the room and was very pleased with the refurb quality (and warranty).

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Get an HD-300.

To elaborate, the HD300 will handle the audio for you. It will output the DTS core and DD Core to your existing receiver. Odds are, the audio quality will be better using your existing receiver and the HD300, than if you were to buy a newer HDAudio capable receiver for the same $150.

[larryf]

Just re-read the manual for the HD300... I see it does DTS-MA to DTS. If I am reading this correctly (eyes still crossed from all the codecs and conversions I tried) it looks like I can use an HDMI to the TV and an optical cable to my old DTS capable receiver.

The Onkyo receivers look good. I saw them on Newegg, but the link above has a better price.

Decisions, decisions.... If I want HD sound I guess I have to open the wallet.

Larry

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by larryf

Just re-read the manual for the HD300... I see it does DTS-MA to DTS. If I am reading this correctly (eyes still crossed from all the codecs and conversions I tried) it looks like I can use an HDMI to the TV and an optical cable to my old DTS capable receiver.

The Onkyo receivers look good. I saw them on Newegg, but the link above has a better price.

Decisions, decisions.... If I want HD sound I guess I have to open the wallet.

Larry

It doesn't really convert DTS-MA to DTS - DTS-MA already contains a standard DTS track (called the DTS Core) in it. It will simply output that standard DTS out the optical port.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It doesn't really convert DTS-MA to DTS - DTS-MA already contains a standard DTS track (called the DTS Core) in it. It will simply output that standard DTS out the optical port.

This is where I got lost in codec land, trying to extract the core DTS so I can pass it thru an HD100 or an HD200.

Just so I understand completely, I can set my system up as follows and it will play blu-ray with a single english DTS-MA 5.1 soundtrack:

HD300 > hdmi > TV
> optical > DTS Receiver > 5.1 speakers

Thanks for the assistance, hope your New Year is going great!
Larry

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It doesn't really convert DTS-MA to DTS - DTS-MA already contains a standard DTS track (called the DTS Core) in it. It will simply output that standard DTS out the optical port.

Is this automatic (native) or do you need to enable something in the HD300?

[Fuzzy]

Honestly, I can't verify, as I don't personally own one. I believe it's an option to enable or disable HD audio - that said, even the HD100 would output the core to the optical ports. (in fact, with the HD100 and 200, this was the only way to get sound from DTS/DTS-MA only videos).

[panteragstk]

ffdshow will do everything you need with any type of HD audio file. If the file has the core audio track (and almost all do only a fe HD-DVD's have a coreless truehd track). It shouldn't be that hard unless there is no core.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Honestly, I can't verify, as I don't personally own one. I believe it's an option to enable or disable HD audio - that said, even the HD100 would output the core to the optical ports. (in fact, with the HD100 and 200, this was the only way to get sound from DTS/DTS-MA only videos).

In my setup the core is not being passed through.... If the only selection on the blu-ray is DTS-MA, my DTS receiver lights up with 'error' on the front panel. It will pass AC3, but only if the blu-ray has it. The two titles that I'm working with are "Date Night" and "Knight and Day". "Salt" worked OK. All play perfectly on the PC with PowerDVD 9 (included with the burner).

Maybe I'm missing a codec? In the attached pic, clown_bd says the 'core' is undetermined, and it won't let me check the box.

Larry

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by larryf

This is where I got lost in codec land, trying to extract the core DTS so I can pass it thru an HD100 or an HD200.

You don't have to do that, the HD200 will output DTS core from DTS-HD just fine. I imagine the HD100 will as well, but I've never tried it.

Just so I understand completely, I can set my system up as follows and it will play blu-ray with a single english DTS-MA 5.1 soundtrack:

HD300 > hdmi > TV
> optical > DTS Receiver > 5.1 speakers

Yes, you can do that. I have my HD200 still in my HT running optical to my SSP.

Originally Posted by QueOnda

Is this automatic (native) or do you need to enable something in the HD300?

You need to have "Bitstream" output enabled in the audio setup. The HD300 has options for Bitstream and something like "High Bitrate Bitstream" (the HD200 only has the former), you want the former selected unless you're using an HDMI 1.3 HBR AVR/SSP.

Originally Posted by larryf

In my setup the core is not being passed through.... If the only selection on the blu-ray is DTS-MA, my DTS receiver lights up with 'error' on the front panel. It will pass AC3, but only if the blu-ray has it. The two titles that I'm working with are "Date Night" and "Knight and Day". "Salt" worked OK. All play perfectly on the PC with PowerDVD 9 (included with the burner).

What is your setup specifically? Are you using an HD200? PC?

Maybe I'm missing a codec? In the attached pic, clown_bd says the 'core' is undetermined, and it won't let me check the box.

Larry

What you want to select there is the DTS-HD MA track and leave "unconverted" selected below. I believe the other options (AC3, DTS) will create additional either AC3 or DTS tracks from the audio track you selected.

It kind of sounds to me like you've got an HD200 and you've got it set up for PCM or analog output rather than Bitstream. The HD200 can't decode DTS so you get nothing from DTS tracks.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by stanger89

What is your setup specifically? Are you using an HD200? PC?

PC to an HD100 to a Vizio VW46L HDMI 1.2. Trying to send audio via optical to a DTS receiver (not a DTS-MA). Works with Sage recorded TV, works with any blu-ray that has AC3, but no sound at all with DTS-MA. Receiver blinks 'error' on any blu-ray that has DTS-MA, so I know it's not getting DTS core. I have an HD200 to a bedroom TV connected via component cables, it also does not play DTS-MA, but I expected that since the TV has no optical in. I can try moving the HD200 to the DTS receiver if you think it will help

Originally Posted by stanger89

What you want to select there is the DTS-HD MA track and leave "unconverted" selected below. I believe the other options (AC3, DTS) will create additional either AC3 or DTS tracks from the audio track you selected.

This is where I was in the land of lost codecs... Selecting 'unconverted' left me with no sound, selecting AC3 worked with sound but not 5.1, selecting DTS gave me a missing codec error (arcsoft and surcode, spent days tracking those down). They only create one audio track, but that could be me doing something wrong.

Originally Posted by stanger89

It kind of sounds to me like you've got an HD200 and you've got it set up for PCM or analog output rather than Bitstream. The HD200 can't decode DTS so you get nothing from DTS tracks.

WAF is rapidly decreasing, so I decided I may go the hardware route to fix this. A low end DTS-MA receiver (like the Onkyo) with my speakers... or even an HD300 if it will decode DTS-MA to DTS, and I can keep the existing receiver.

Side note... Here is someone that appeared to be in the same situation as me, and Narflex responded with "We were just discussing this internally on Friday and will be adding it soon so you can enable/disable hd audio and use the core streams instead".
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...ghlight=dts-ma

I'm searching now to see how to use the core only, can't seem to find it...

Larry

[Fuzzy]

The HDAudio switch is for PC clients, not hardware extenders. As mentioned, you should have no problem getting the DTS core if you are using any of the HD extenders (HD100/200/300) via optical to a receiver. You need to make sure you have the extender set to BITSTREAM output. If that still ins't working, I'm guessing there's a problem in your rips (like you are using something like clownbd and NOT choosing to keep the Core track in there).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by larryf

PC to an HD100 to a Vizio VW46L HDMI 1.2. Trying to send audio via optical to a DTS receiver (not a DTS-MA). Works with Sage recorded TV, works with any blu-ray that has AC3, but no sound at all with DTS-MA. Receiver blinks 'error' on any blu-ray that has DTS-MA, so I know it's not getting DTS core. I have an HD200 to a bedroom TV connected via component cables, it also does not play DTS-MA, but I expected that since the TV has no optical in. I can try moving the HD200 to the DTS receiver if you think it will help

you should go into the basic setup for the one in the HT and make sure you have the S/PDIF output selected and that the audio output is set to Bitstream. This should be in the pre-extender setup screens (where you can enable different resolutions and such).

This is where I was in the land of lost codecs... Selecting 'unconverted' left me with no sound, selecting AC3 worked with sound but not 5.1, selecting DTS gave me a missing codec error (arcsoft and surcode, spent days tracking those down). They only create one audio track, but that could be me doing something wrong.

Definitely sounds like you don't have Bitstream output selected. And yeah, you need extra software (not-free) to get DTS conversion working.

WAF is rapidly decreasing, so I decided I may go the hardware route to fix this. A low end DTS-MA receiver (like the Onkyo) with my speakers... or even an HD300 if it will decode DTS-MA to DTS, and I can keep the existing receiver.

I think you should check your settings first. And another thing that I didn't see mentioned, if you get a new Receiver, you'll need an HD300 also. The HD200 and HD100 can't bitstream DTS-HD MA, so really the first thing you need to do is make sure you've got your settings right (Digital Bitstream output)

Side note... Here is someone that appeared to be in the same situation as me, and Narflex responded with "We were just discussing this internally on Friday and will be adding it soon so you can enable/disable hd audio and use the core streams instead".
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...ghlight=dts-ma

That's from quite a while ago and only applies to the HD300.

I'm searching now to see how to use the core only, can't seem to find it...

That's because you don't have an HD300, the HD100 and HD200 only support core-output. And again, it sounds like you have them set to PCM output, not Bitstream.

FWIW, it's possible the HD100 can't output the DTS core (though if that were the case I would not expect the AC3 core to work either), if that's the case, then you could simply swap the HD200 and HD100 and not lose any functionality in the bedroom. Or you could replace the HD100 with an HD300.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by stanger89

you should go into the basic setup for the one in the HT and make sure you have the S/PDIF output selected and that the audio output is set to Bitstream. This should be in the pre-extender setup screens (where you can enable different resolutions and such).

Tried the HD200 (has latest beta f/w) in the main setup.... Played directly from the bluray to eliminate any 'rip' issues, set the HD200 to bitstream SPDIF. I hit the 'enter' button while playing, it says DTS-MA 5.1 on the TV. The DTS receiver has 'ERROR' in the LEDs, and no sound at all. The receiver is a Panasonic SA-HT920, has a DTS logo on the front. For the heck of it, tried PCM and got the same results.

The two titles I am using are "Date Night" and "Knight and Day". Both only have the English track in DTS-MA. I can press the audio button on "Knight and Day" and cycle through the audio >> English DTS-MA = no sound, error on receiver, French and Spanish AC3 play perfectly through the receiver and TV. There are no French or Spanish DTS-MA tracks. Date Night appears to have only one track, DTS-MA with no sound. Both blu-rays play in Sage (on the PC) with DTS-MA and outside of Sage with PowerDVD 9.0

The HD100 has limited settings, comments in the forums say to set it for HDMI and audio SPDIF and it will pass through. Regardless, it does the same thing as far as DTS-MA, AC3 and the error on the receiver.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I think you should check your settings first. And another thing that I didn't see mentioned, if you get a new Receiver, you'll need an HD300 also. The HD200 and HD100 can't bitstream DTS-HD MA, so really the first thing you need to do is make sure you've got your settings right (Digital Bitstream output)

I never thought of that... The new receiver and HD300 would both be needed. If it can't bitstream MA, is it only sending the core? I'm beginning to think it's the Panasonic Receiver at the root of the problem.

Larry

[Fuzzy]

Does the receiver have an input mode selection button? I had a older yamaha that could be forced into Dolby Digital, or DTS mode (or auto). It may be that it isn't accepting the DTS stream for some reason.

[ccsmoke]

To clarify your connections....you have Hdmi out from extender into your tv, and optical out of extender going into your receiver. You do not want to have optical out on the tv going into the receiver as that may cause issues.

I agree with bitstreaming and making sure receiver is on DTS manually.

As far as DTS-MA...if you want that, you need both HD300 as well as 1.3 DTS-MA capable receiver and the Onkyo is a good entry level receiver.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Does the receiver have an input mode selection button? I had a older yamaha that could be forced into Dolby Digital, or DTS mode (or auto). It may be that it isn't accepting the DTS stream for some reason.

It does have an input selector, but only switches between dvd, digital in, etc... I'm using the digital in. I found a copy of the manual online, it states that 'ERROR' means you are doing something you are not supposed to

It would be great if I knew someone was trying this with the same setup and had it working (DTS only receiver via an HD100/200). I might submit a support ticket with Sage, maybe they've seen this before.

And yes, I am connected from the optical 'out' on the HD100 or 200 to the optical 'in' of the receiver. The TV has an optical out, I don't use it.


Larry

[ccsmoke]

What is the model number of your panny receiver?

http://wdtvforum.com/main/index.php?topic=2624.0