Audio Receiver for Blu-ray HD sound (recommendations)

[Nelbert]

Stupid question but have you tried plain old DTS via the optical input?

ie rip a dvd with dts or use a dts sample and play that back from sage.

While the unit has a DTS logo, it is also an all in one unit, so for some obscure reason known only to the manufacturer or DTS licensing the Panny might only decode DTS when it's played back via a disc in the machine.

If a dvd with a DTS track plays back from sage, then at least you can rule out the optical input in the Panny as the cause for not decoding DTS via the optical input.

After that it's most likely either a setting in the HD100/200 or the stream output isn't recognised automatically by the Panny and needs to be forced manually to DTS mode as suggested above.

Can you provide a 60 sec sample from one of the rips so someone else can try them?

You say Salt works, but is that DTS or Dolby format audio on the original disc?

[larryf]

Re: the last few posts...

The model number is an SA-HT920. It's not the same as what was mentioned in the link from the previous post, but similar enough as it's a home theater system. I have not tried to rip a DVD with DTS and playback with Sage, but that seems to be the next step I should try. I have nothing else that outputs DTS.
A quick search with google and the model number shows some complaints about the 'optical in' not working with a PS3's 'optical out'.

I think I've been pounding my head against a wall for something dumb

Larry

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by larryf

It would be great if I knew someone was trying this with the same setup and had it working (DTS only receiver via an HD100/200). I might submit a support ticket with Sage, maybe they've seen this before.

I sort of mentioned it above, but I'm running my HD200 into my AVM20 via SPDIF, and the only things I've had trouble with are HD DVD rips which didn't have an AC3 core at all. DTS core passthrough works just fine. The only possible variable is I'm not running HDMI (right now, though I believe I have in the past).

The only other thing I can think of is possibly your TV's EDID is reporting it can't do DTS, and that's somehow overriding your output setting (which I think it shouldn't.

[Fuzzy]

Yeah, pretty sure it's a limitation of your receiver. The manual only talks about using the optical in for a satellite box, which would only ever carry PCM or AC3. Silly restriction, but it's there none the less. You could probably get a really cheap used DD/DTS 5.1 receiver on ebay, or spend the dough and go ahead and go with a newer HDMI based receiver - which you wouldn't be able to fully utilize until you also upgrade to an HD300.

Or... use ClownBD for your rips and convert the audio tracks to AC3...

[ccsmoke]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Yeah, pretty sure it's a limitation of your receiver. The manual only talks about using the optical in for a satellite box, which would only ever carry PCM or AC3. Silly restriction, but it's there none the less. You could probably get a really cheap used DD/DTS 5.1 receiver on ebay, or spend the dough and go ahead and go with a newer HDMI based receiver - which you wouldn't be able to fully utilize until you also upgrade to an HD300.

Or... use ClownBD for your rips and convert the audio tracks to AC3...

I agree, I have 3 generations of receivers hooked to 3 HD200's doing DTS.
1) Integra DTR 8.8 DTS-MA capable
2)Sony DTS/DD capable
3)Carver 885.1 'Digital Ready"

Willing to bet your Panny receiver is more like my Carver as far as having only Dolby Pro-Logic abilities other than the onboard DVD as Nelbert pointed out. This would explain the AC3 capablity and DTS incapability. This can be confirmed by doing Nelbert's recommendation of playing regular dvd dts track. If this is true then I would part with the whole system as the speakers are 4 ohm and probably rated at 10 watts RMS. So I would go receiver and speakers then HD300 down the road.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by ccsmoke

I agree, I have 3 generations of receivers hooked to 3 HD200's doing DTS.
1) Integra DTR 8.8 DTS-MA capable
2)Sony DTS/DD capable
3)Carver 885.1 'Digital Ready"

Willing to bet your Panny receiver is more like my Carver as far as having only Dolby Pro-Logic abilities other than the onboard DVD as Nelbert pointed out. This would explain the AC3 capablity and DTS incapability. This can be confirmed by doing Nelbert's recommendation of playing regular dvd dts track. If this is true then I would part with the whole system as the speakers are 4 ohm and probably rated at 10 watts RMS. So I would go receiver and speakers then HD300 down the road.

Or, if cost is an issue, and surround isn't of the most importance, go with an HD300 for just $150, and continue to use the existing receiver with the HD300 in stereo PCM mode.

[larryf]

OK, back to the original subject line... The Panasonic will not play DTS via the optical in, so I'm off to find a hardware fix.

The existing speakers are 6 ohm, and the sub will probably have to be replaced as it has a large connector that connects to the main receiver. The remote speakers are on a wireless link that I added a few years ago, I'll probably keep that. If I buy a receiver that is capable of DTS-MA, I assume it will also work with pass through core DTS via the HD100/200, until I get a 300 some time in the future. Everything I look at has multiple input/outputs, kind of a waste considering I will only use this with Sage.

I'm leaning towards the Onkyo, reviews on Newegg and Amazon are always good for Onkyo products. The two I am looking at are:

Onkyo HT-S3300 -- Has 5 speakers and a sub, a refurb is $249.
Onkyo HT-RC230 -- Receiver refurb $137. I can reuse my speakers but will have to get a sub.

I'll probably go with one of those, unless someone knows of a lower cost solution for 5.1

Larry

[Tomahawk51]

i really like my onkyo 607...but recently got a 3d tv, and it doesn't support HDMI v 1.4 so I can't directly connect my PS3 to it anymore. Instead I now downgrade to optical audio.

A frustration, so do consider whether you want to future proof by getting a "3D Compatible" one.

[ccsmoke]

The Onkyo HT-s3300 looks to be a good deal, it does use a passive sub, however. The Ht-s5300 adds a sub out as well as 7.1 speakers for $319.00...I always perfer an active sub and would set the crossover at 85 hz (THX standard). Both are HDMI 1.4.

[ccsmoke]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk51

i really like my onkyo 607...but recently got a 3d tv, and it doesn't support HDMI v 1.4 so I can't directly connect my PS3 to it anymore. Instead I now downgrade to optical audio.

Hopefully monoprice will come out with HDMI 1.4 switch soon for you.

[Fuzzy]

There's nothing in HDMI 1.4 that is required for 3D. All 1.4 adds is the capabilities to automatically enable 3D mode on the tv when the source plays 3D content. You can continue using your HDMI 1.3 set and just turn 3D mode on yourself when you put the glasses on.

[Tomahawk51]

Fuzzy - not with the PS3. It detects TV 3D compatibility via HDMI.

[Fuzzy]

That sounds pretty lame that there is no way to force the PS3 into 3D mode... Though I suppose it might get people to buy newer 3D tv's... from Sony..

[larryf]

Just pulled the trigger and bought an Onkyo HT-RC230. HDMI 1.4a, it's the low budget solution to 5.1 DTS, Someday DTS HD.

Going to use my old Panasonic 6 ohm speakers, redeploy an old Koss woofer I forgot I had, and add things to my wishlist (better speakers, new sub, HD300). I don't plan on pushing the volume beyond 1/4 anyway so power is not an issue.

Things I accomplished:

1 Walked away from the valley of lost codecs
2 Stayed within budget
3 Able to play rental or borrowed BDs without jumping through hoops
4 Will be able to hear the bullets whiz by in the rear speakers
5 Increased WAF

Larry

[Tomahawk51]

Originally Posted by ccsmoke

Hopefully monoprice will come out with HDMI 1.4 switch soon for you.

ccsmoke: What would the switch do for my situation? Is the idea to put it in line from the receiver to the TV to "trick" the TV to working? Would it presumably "upscale" the HDMI version that the TV sees? Is this the notion:

PS3 -(HDMI 1.4)-> AV Receiver -(HDMI 1.3)-> Switch -(HDMI 1.4?)-> HDTV

note: I guess some 3D capable BluRay Players are starting to come with 2 HDMI ports to alleviate this sort of a problem.

OP: It is nice to have a simplified setup, and I am a fan of the Onkyo stuff. I'll check out your model versus the 608 which I've been considering an upgrade to. Thanks for sharing.

[ccsmoke]

Larry,

From what I can tell, that receiver looks to have a sub out on it (for amplified sub), thats a good thing . Seems to be a good find and if you asked me this a year ago I wouldn't think that would be possible for under $400. Ease my mind though as far as your panny speakers by double checking that they are indead 6 ohm and not 4 ohm as you do not want to mix 4 ohm speakers with 6/8 ohm speakers. The spec sheet I looked at stated 4 ohm is the reason I bring that up. If they are 6 ohm, your good to go and can help you with any question you may have hooking it up.

Tomahawk51,

The EDID information is what is causing the failure. It basically has checks for copyright as well as capable audio and video resolutions for all the components in the chain in a bidirectional fashion...handshaking. The PS3 has 1.3c HDMI port on it and as you can see is 3D (120htz) capable. HDMI has been poorly implemented over the years as vendors haven't been held to a tighter spec on intial releases. HDMI 1.4 brings internet with everything that 1.3c has to offer. I guessing that all other vendors use a 1.4 check in their handshaking for 3D. Keep in mind you need a 120htz tv to do 3d and some tvs are 60 htz with the 1.3 hdmi which is my guess why vendors are doing this as well as improving their sales. Tulli over at AVS forum would be the man to ask in that reguard.

So does this mean you should rid your receiver?

Not at all, there are couple of ways out for you...just not available yet, part of being an early bird

1) Firmware from Onkyo....wouldn't hold my breath
2) Edid Hack
3) 1.4 Splitter/Switch (monoprice)

PS3---->1.4 Spliiter---->HDMI Input 2 TV
PS3---->1.4 Spltter---->Game HDMI input Onkyo

*note TV must be on HDMI 2 for 3D
maybe some lip sync issues which can be adjusted on the Onkyo

The 1.4 splitters and switches are not available yet and would wait for the reviews before making the purchase. But they should divide up the chain basically fooling the handshaking process into thinking chain1: ps3>TV Chain2: PS3>Onkyo.

This sounds complicated but when you get to hooking it up...its pretty much plug and play and should give you 3D with DTS-MA/Dolby HD.

I am interested if you are able to pass 3D Games currently. I know you can't do movies. Probably have to make sure the Reon in the Onkyo doesn't touch the video part of it and let the PS3 do that. In other words try to use video pass-through and making sure the edge enhancement/Mosquito etc is off.

[larryf]

Originally Posted by ccsmoke

Larry,

From what I can tell, that receiver looks to have a sub out on it (for amplified sub), thats a good thing . Seems to be a good find and if you asked me this a year ago I wouldn't think that would be possible for under $400. Ease my mind though as far as your panny speakers by double checking that they are indead 6 ohm and not 4 ohm as you do not want to mix 4 ohm speakers with 6/8 ohm speakers. The spec sheet I looked at stated 4 ohm is the reason I bring that up. If they are 6 ohm, your good to go and can help you with any question you may have hooking it up.

$137 was the purchase price, I ordered it last night and accessories4less shipped it this morning. Shipping was a bit high, but I imagine it's heavy and for $18 it will be here in two days. Can't recall what I paid for the Panasonic, prob over $500 a few years ago.

The front L and R speakers are 6 ohm at 170w, the rear are 4 ohm (but they will be run from the wireless amp for now). I just double checked and found the center speaker is 4 ohms, that might be a concern... Time to download the PDF manual to see if that's OK. I have some old Koss speakers in the attic where I dug up the sub, may have to use somethhing different for the center.

Memo to self... add speakers to birthday list.

Larry

[Fuzzy]

4 ohm speakers aren't going to be the end of the world, unless you are up over 50% volume.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by Tomahawk51

... versus the 608 which I've been considering an upgrade to. Thanks for sharing.

Not trying to hijack a tread, but could one of you "receiver" people answer a question? Can I take the HDMI out on my computer (has HDMI out w/sound), and route it through a receiver like the one above, and then to my monitor (not TV)???

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

Not trying to hijack a tread, but could one of you "receiver" people answer a question? Can I take the HDMI out on my computer (has HDMI out w/sound), and route it through a receiver like the one above, and then to my monitor (not TV)???

Yeah, the receiver usually processes the audio and sends just the video to the TV. (some receivers have the capability to downmix the audio to stereo and send it to the tv, but that's not really a requirement for most people)