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General Discussion General discussion about SageTV and related companies, products, and technologies. |
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#21
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#22
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#23
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1. Lack of a true client platform on wmc 2. Xbox as extenders are worthless and can't play anything but tv would be barable if option 1 existed but that seems to never happen. "softsled" has been rumored for years now. 3. Can't use commercial skip on any copy protected recordings. This is huge for me as the wife and i can't go back to not using com skip. 4. Lack of integrated blu ray playback sure there are third party solutions but they are a pia most of the time. This is where a true extender comes in true hd audio and video support is a must of any real extender. 5. Support an fixes. Sage wins by miles and miles here. Try to get MS to fix a bug wait a year for a service pack and then did out it still isn't fixed. 6. The picture quality isn't that much better over Collusus with hdmi or component. 7. SDV that right there requires 2 boxes to get 4 feeds if your cable company uses SDV (mine does) so if I am going to have to have to boxes anywyas miss well be sticking with sage. So it isn't always a clean and "simple" solution like some make it to be. 8. Cable card technology has already been announced Dead by the FCC. Now it may be a couple of years before the replacement comes along but I am not buying any technology already announced dead in the water no thanks. 9. WMC generates no money for MS. It is nothing more than a testing ground for media room and xbox live. Therefor I believe it will be killed off in futurie versions. MS has shown time and time again their focus is on xbox live not wmc. There is my long winded version and opinions. I have used practically every option out there. I was a WMC user since it first arrived in 2002 and use the first ATI dual cable card tuners from Dell. I have also used dual r5000 mods. So I have used a gamit of options and wasted allot of money for limited functionality. For me my money and time is best spent with a company that listens to its users and actually has a whole home media solution as well as a great placeshifter. So my money stays with sagetv The ceton product is a great product I don't mean totale away from that. It does what it does well. It is just said it is only available on such limited platform (WMC). Last edited by PLUCKYHD; 04-26-2011 at 04:48 AM. |
#24
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The ceton product is a great product I don't mean totale away from that. It does what it does well. It is just said it is only available on such limited platform (WMC).[/QUOTE] I'm not going to go into each number you pointed out but you really need to read up a bit. You are a behind in the times. Such as you can commercial skip protected content (I’m not a fan of this type of technology with anyone for various reasons but that’s my preference), essentially have native Blu-ray playback (I do it all the time with the correct codec) and no need for a 2nd box for SDV with the Ceton card and the latest drivers that you just need to sign up for to use. I don’t think they are beta but they aren’t available by default just yet. But that’s just to name a few. I’m not trying to say one is better than the other as I have both WMC and SageTV. If Sage had CableCARD support, no need for WMC. But my whole point is that the Ceton card will work with SaveTV, more as in CableCARD will work with SageTV if the developers got on it. I know for awhile it was believed that you had to have the OS certified by CableLabs but they have stated that is not true and what did allow you to use CableCARD, which included SageTV. I mean like I said I don’t remember the details but it was about 2 years ago when they announced some changes. Someone I think either from SageTV or who was a fan of SageTV asked them and they said this. So basically it was available but no one understood what the rules actually where. |
#25
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And I could be wrong but don't assume I don't "read up" my life is lived on boards and forums mostly.(sad but true) |
#26
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For Blu-ray, you install the codecs just like any other software.
Overall, do read up. Might learn a few things instead of trying to give me sh** when all I am saying is Sage can support CableCARD but they have yet to get behind it. I want to say that the details was revealed at CES 2009 but I can't seem to Google the correct words on the details about it. |
#27
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http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/84815/425208.aspx here is another article again only refering to NON DRMD recordings http://thegreenbutton.com/blogs/shad...cablecard.aspx so I believe I am correct until you show my otherwise. SageTV choices not to pay the money and go DRM and I don't blame them at all. They already have far more features than WMC users ever dream of. Also you can use Sagetv if they are not drm'd here is a success story right here http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55371 of course most cable companies choice to set the copy flag when the content provider doesn't. That is the cable companies fault. The details of CES 2009 I believe you are refering to was cable card loosening the standars for computer certification (ie computers didn't have to be certified anymore) it meant sagetv could get certified if they wanted but meant nothing about it being free the cost is still there. |
#28
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So. Sage may not support cablecard officially, but you can get it to work very well. Of course this all depends on your cable provider. Who do you use?
__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60 Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup. |
#29
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PLUCKYHD,
Your argument of "I don't want CableCard, so it doesn't matter that SageTV doesn't support it" is pretty weak. If SageTV supported CableCard then it would be a win for SageTV customers in the US. CableCard enables you to plug a single coax cable into the back of your HTPC and get 4 tuners worth of recording. You don't have to deal with IR blasters are a bunch of separate STBs hooked up with a rats-nest full of wires and the reliability problems inherent in that solution. I'm certain total power consumption of a Ceaton-equipped HTPC would also be significantly lower than the Hauppauge HD-PVR/Collosus based alternative plugged into 4 STBs. By offering support for CableCard, SageTV wouldn't be forcing you to use it, but it would give you an option. Having more options is a Good Thing(tm). I live in Canada, and I wish we had a CableCard option (our cable companies don't even support it). Oh well. I suppose it doesn't matter in the long term when we all move to streaming video over the internet for our "TV". |
#30
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That wasn't my argument at all. My argument was that the awful WMC makes it not worth the effort. Also that sagetv is small and I imagine can't afford the licensing fee's to do it and still be profitable. Not to mention much of what we like (native dvd and blu ray support) would be brought to the attention of the studios if Sagetv become more mass. Don't know where you got the above statement was conveying that message. My message was simply WMC is weak and not worth it even for WMC. The poster I responded to was thinking SageTV didn't really have to do or pay anything to get cablecard support which is just wrong.
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#31
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I'll address your specific points then:
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I predict that in Windows 8, Media Center will be featured prominently and will focus its next efforts on being a single unified interface for streaming video services. I switched from 7MC to SageTV and the main goal of that transition was to gain a software client that I can run on a HTPC. The reason for this is because I find myself watching Hulu and Netflix more, and viewing broadcast TV less. These days it's about a 50/50 ratio. I find using devices that do not have a web browser in them extremely limited, so I moved away from XBOX 360 extenders towards HTPCs at all my TVs again, and I'm very happy with the result. That said, there are things that I like better about 7MC over SageTV, specifically: - Nice user interface animations/transitions - Exellent addons (e.g. Media Browser) - Not written in Java - Excellent music player interface (with the zooming/panning cover art wallpaper) - Nice "wall of photos" screensaver interface - Organizes the recorded shows in a sane fashion. I can't seem to get SageTV to list the recorded shows, ordered by datetime of the recording. It groups by show, ordered by random(). The glaring omission for 7MC is the lack of a PC client. I agree, that totally sucks, and so I'm not using 7MC anymore. But, make no mistake: if MS came out with a software client, I'd probably convert back to Media Center because the "fit and finish" of the software is better. To be fair, with SageTV being written in Java that handicaps the developers to a certain extent. I don't think I've ever seen a Java application with a great UI that looks better than the UI of native applications. |
#32
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oh oh my turn
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I agree there and have always said that is their strongpoint they have smooth and nice animations and transitions. Sage is getting much better with Diamond, SMM, phoenix, and ortus. How is this a negative do you even code? Java is a universal code used like it or not it exist in most electronics devices these days from your tv to your blu ray player to your cell phone. It isn't going anywhere. Quote:
Can';t argue that one bit that was one of my favorite new features early on in WM7 then they killed it on extenders and really hacked me off. Quote:
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good discussion enjoying it |
#33
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Some of this discussion also begs the question. Of all the copies of Windows Vista and 7, how many actually have their Media Center active? I would hazard to guess very few. Media PC's are such a niche market. I doubt the number of people who actually use Windows Media Center would bring enough profit into Microsoft to pay for its development.
__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3 Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD |
#34
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__________________
SageTV Server: unRAID Docker v9, S2600CPJ, Norco 24 hot swap bay case, 2x Xeon 2670, 64 GB DDR3, 3x Colossus for DirecTV, HDHR for OTA Living room: nVidia Shield TV, Sage Mini Client, 65" Panasonic VT60 Bedroom: Xiomi Mi Box, Sage Mini Client, 42" Panasonic PZ800u Theater: nVidia Shield TV, mini client, Plex for movies, 120" screen. Mitsubishi HC4000. Denon X4300H. 7.4.4 speaker setup. |
#35
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We are a very small number. Which is why we have such hard time getting ANYTHING we really want. Like DRM free and open cable card and .... |
#36
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__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3 Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD |
#37
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Java's strength is "write once, run anywhere". The problem is that every operating system you go with your Java software you're a second class citizen when you get there. In order to "run anywhere" that means your feature set is built on the lowest common denominator across all the computing platforms that you support. By contrast, native applications are able to take advantage of all the features that make a given platform special. I should say that most of my criticism of Java is directed towards "Java the Platform", not "Java the Language". I could go on and on with the specific shortfalls in "Java the platform" like their half-ass implementation of generics, but I don't think this is the audience for those sorts of rants. It is for these reasons why it takes a lot more "elbow grease" on the part of the developer to give your app the same fit-and-finish as a native app. This is a developer productivity cost which may or may not pay off with the benefit of being cross platform. In other words I hope SageTV LLC is making a lot of Linux and MacOS X sales, because us Windows users are paying for that benefit with software that isn't as polished as it otherwise would be given the same effort on the developers part. Finally, there is the future. Oracle now owns Java. If you haven't noticed, Oracle isn't the most "community friendly" company in the world, and only major success in Java in recent years that I can think of (Google Android) is being sued by Oracle. I think there is a lesson here for Google: don't use anything that resembles Java. We'll see how this plays out in court, but you can bet new products and platforms that are in the design stage today aren't eager to get on the Java bus, because the first stop could be the courtroom. Just ask James Gosling and the people in the JCP (Java Community Process) how much they love Oracle. |
#38
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You better tell that to my compay's sister company. Most of their internal web pages use Java. I think a little of it is done in PHP. However the greater portion of their code is Java.
__________________
Server: i5 8400, ASUS Prime H370M-Plus/CSM, 16GB RAM, 15TB drive array + 500GB cache, 2 HDHR's, SageTV 9, unRAID 6.6.3 Client 1: HD300 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia 65" 1080p LCD and optical SPDIF to a Sony Receiver Client 2: HD200 (latest FW), HDMI to an Insignia NS-LCD42HD-09 1080p LCD |
#39
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Sure, there are anecdotal examples of sites built in Java, but the vast majority of webserver-side code is not in Java. For example, far more sites run PHP than Java. Plus, there is the issue of when was that code originally built? New projects are not selecting Java at anywhere the same rate as projects where the technology platform choice was made a decade ago.
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#40
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Why not both?
From my perspective, I think they should offer the option for a DRM model that will allow for cablecards to work or you can run it in unprotected mode that would allow legacy use. I'd really like to see cablecard support in Sage and am willing to sacrifice many of the options to have that, the need for a cable box, HDPVR, IRBlaster, etc is just so much less elegant than a straight cablecard solution...
Tom |
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