Need help getting HD-PVR working first time

[panteragstk]

TMT decoders work well, but you don't have to use them. If you want to just download those two files in that thread I linked you to a few posts up. Change the checkactivate.dll.txt to just checkactivate.dll and put it in the unziped folder. Then download something like the dshow filter manager to register the filters. All you do is point the filter manager to the asvid.ax and it will register it. You just have to have the checkactivate.dll in the same folder as the arcsoft decoders and you can register away.

As an alternative you can download the mpc-hc decoders from their site and try them. They are similar to the arcsoft as they will decode both vc-1 and h.264. Good luck.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

That is the problem. Sage assumes what you know how to install a 3rd party decoder. If you use w7 then you don't/shouldn't need any 3rd party decoders. With xp, it isn't as straight forward.

Thanks for info... I downloaded ffdshow and told Sage to use it for H264. The .TS file I told the Sage XP client does display, but the colors are wrong: grey shades OK but the only two colors are purple and green.

Apparently one CANNOT use the decoders from the Arcsoft in HD-PVR with Sage. Apparently you COULD a year or two ago - was that called TMT2? I read that today's TMT3 cannot be. Must I pay $40 per PC to get TMT3 to have an XP H264 decoder? People talk about registering but it's not the windows registry, as I understand. If you know- please tell me exactly where to find a decoder that actually works, and if you please, how to install it.
(apologies: I am tech-savvy - just not in this video codec/world.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

...You just have to have the checkactivate.dll in the same folder as the arcsoft decoders and you can register away.

Have to keep my perspective here: This whole task of Sage PC software for viewing H264 files, in hindsight now- Sage HAS NO built in means to do so in Win XP. That's just not right.

That aside, my goal is to get the HD-PVR to record and be tuned by Sage and usually but not always viewed on my HD300. This XP viewing is a tangent.
On XP:
Stumbling in the dark here, I finally figured out what you want me to do and did it. (Hasn't anyone ever written up a HD video with Sage, class # 101? Have sympathy!)

I downloaded that 2008 version of ArcSoft Video Decoder (.ax).
Put in a folder along with the checkactivate.dll
Downloaded the DSFM tool.
Fumbled around a while in DSFM trying to understand what it's showing me. As I'm a software guy sort of, I understand what a Class ID is. I pointed it to the old .ax file and told it to register.
Went to Sage setup - H264 filter choice. Choose from the "all filters" list the ArcSoft Video Decoder as above.
Then play a .TS file. Works - but there's a 15-30 second delay before it plays. Then it has the same color problem as ffdshow had: purple/green only and grey shades. So that is a mystery - since Arcsoft "TME" works just fine on this XP PC. Must be a filter-chain error on my part from naivete'.

Used DSFM to register, from the HD-PVR software from Arcsoft, What APPEARS to be a newer version of the .ax as above. I assumed that's "MP4Muxer.ax" - is that right?
I told Sage to use that for H264. Same results as with the older .ax as above, including the long delay before playing begins.

Must I now dive into how to do this video processing chain-of-programs (graphing)? I sure hope not. This was supposed to be trivial!

Here's what's in Arcsoft's "Codec" folder, from the HD-PVR disk marked Version 3.0.
C:\Program Files\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Extreme\Codec
in there is "checkactivate.dll" that came with the HD-PVR -same as talked about above?


AACEncoderWrapper.ax
AdavAudioDec.dll
ArcDemux.ax
ArcWmvSpl.ax
ASAudio.ax
ASMSVideoEnc.dll
checkactivate.dll
checkcommon.dll
HallEffectDll.dll
MP4Muxer.ax
mp4splitter.ax
uFileDump.ax


Is the below significant?
Each time I run, ffdshow's icon appears in the toolbar as if it is used to manipulate the settings for whatever decoder is in use. Is that right? The right-click menu on that icon seems to have choices for decoders. Is it overriding my Sage setup H264 filter choice?
Is it the possible culprit for the bad color with both decoders? And/or the long delay?

I reiterate: I don't know what I don't know about this video filter stuff. It was to be plug and play, and I though my challenge was to get Sage to tune this Samsung Set Top Box via firewire or the HD-PVR's blaster or the USB-UIRT I just got.

I'd really like to be working on Sage/HD-PVR and not this XP H264 crap. Maybe I should get a Sage client up on Win7 and forget XP for now. But I do not want to change my server to Win7 from XP - to much collateral damage doing that right now.

[davephan]

When I first setup my HD-PVR on my Windows XP system, I installed the TME software that came with the HD-PVR. I also installed the Hauppauge PVR software. After the HD-PVR worked with the Hauppauge software, I configured SageTV to use the HD-PVR.


Dave

[SHS]

there in C:\Program Files\ArcSoft\TotalMedia Extreme\Codec\ and with use of Filter Manager it make it eazyer for registered and unregistered DirectShow filters so something like RadLight Filter Manager also DirectShow Filter Manager.
If you want you could alway install the later ver DivX codec

[SHS]

Originally Posted by stevech

Thanks - but. I just want it to work. Your suggestion "You could alway install the later ver DivX codec" doesn't help me because I have no idea why I need it, and how to get/use it.

Gee are you really just that dumb you know don't know what DivX is which has been a round for over 10 years and now one of most popular and best codec there is when it come to avi encoding there then Motion Pixels Codec.

why I need it

That eazy it come with H264 codec and can be use with HD-PVR and Colossus as well.

how to get/use it

http://www.divx.com/

[stevech]

Originally Posted by SHS

Gee are you really just that dumb you know don't know what DivX is which has been a round for over 10 years and now one of most popular and best codec there is when it come to avi encoding there then Motion Pixels Codec.

No, I'm not dumb. I'm paid extremely well in my profession in engineering, but I have no experience in TV video software codecs and filters and graph chains beyond knowing the names and compression algorithms in general. Nor do I follow what vendor/open source has what where nor how they are integrated. That doesn't make me 'dumb'.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by stevech

No, I'm not dumb. I'm paid extremely well in my profession in engineering, but I have no experience in TV video software codecs and filters and graph chains beyond knowing the names and compression algorithms in general. Nor do I follow what vendor/open source has what where nor how they are integrated. That doesn't make me 'dumb'.

It has not to do with TV video software codecs and filters or even graph chains.
I wouldn't have suggestion divx if it didn't work but when said "I have no idea why I need it" then "how to get/use it" that why I said your dumb but in any case sorry I said that.
It the fact that you been around there here for 6+ year and didn't even know what DivX was min web site used DivX in some place you find it on Youtube and even Google Video and some other place that most people know about like DivxStage, Warner Bros. Shop, CinemaNow, Film Fresh just name a few places.
There are few main things that every PC internet user need as bear min when come to Media both Audio and Video Playback and even without the internet for playback
Windows Media Player
Apple QuickTime
Adobe "Macromedia" Flash Player
DivX
Oracle "Sun" Java
3rdparty DVD Player or MPEG2 Codec

Years ago it used be RealPlayer was one of frist choices option but now days it has turn in to one of biggest badware & hogware there is and still is very terrible choices.

[panteragstk]

The reason this isn't plug and play with xp is one: Xp is almost 10 years old. h.264 and vc-1 didn't even exist in the pc space yet (IIRC). Sort of like when you could first play dvd's in a computer. It took FOREVER for any companies to have built in dvd decoding. WMC still can't without a plugin of some kind. Now that we can play blu-rays on our pc's h.264 and vc-1 have become important. The hd-pvr and colossus both use h.264 as their preferred codec due to the file size benefit.

The reason I said all that is because there isn't any mdeia center front end that I know of that can play a h.264 file without a 3rd party decoder installed. MPC-HC is one of the ONLY players that has native support for that format, and that hasn't been the case for nearly as long as people have been using h.264 for video playback on their pc. So at one point you had to purchase a 3rd party software just to play the files. TMT 2 would expose it's filters for other programs to use. So do certain versions of pdvd 8. After that you have to get something like coreavc, divx, mpc-hc, or ffdshow to decode the format. With the exception of coreavc all of those decoders are free. Some work better than others. You don't have to become a directshow expert just to play your recordings. You just need to be aware that there are some things you will have to do to make things work correctly. Don't get frustrated as we are here to help.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

The reason this isn't plug and play with xp is one: Xp is almost 10 years old. h.264 and vc-1 didn't even exist in the pc space yet (IIRC). Sort of like when you could first play dvd's in a computer. It took FOREVER for any companies to have built in dvd decoding. WMC still can't without a plugin of some kind. Now that we can play blu-rays on our pc's h.264 and vc-1 have become important. The hd-pvr and colossus both use h.264 as their preferred codec due to the file size benefit.

The reason I said all that is because there isn't any mdeia center front end that I know of that can play a h.264 file without a 3rd party decoder installed. MPC-HC is one of the ONLY players that has native support for that format, and that hasn't been the case for nearly as long as people have been using h.264 for video playback on their pc. So at one point you had to purchase a 3rd party software just to play the files. TMT 2 would expose it's filters for other programs to use. So do certain versions of pdvd 8. After that you have to get something like coreavc, divx, mpc-hc, or ffdshow to decode the format. With the exception of coreavc all of those decoders are free. Some work better than others. You don't have to become a directshow expert just to play your recordings. You just need to be aware that there are some things you will have to do to make things work correctly. Don't get frustrated as we are here to help.

Yup you rigth but it really wasn't so much the software it more like the lack on board decoder in video card and back in them good days must of us just got Real Stand Along PCI Hardware Decoder like REALmagic, Xcard, Cinemaster, Creative Encore heck some of today laptop you can order in Hardware HD DVD Decoder.
We can't blu-rays disc with out buying a 3rd party play

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by SHS

Yup you rigth but it really wasn't so much the software it more like the lack on board decoder in video card and back in them good days must of us just got Real Stand Along PCI Hardware Decoder like REALmagic, Xcard, Cinemaster, Creative Encore heck some of today laptop you can order in Hardware HD DVD Decoder.
We can't blu-rays disc with out buying a 3rd party play

Funny you should mention it. I still have an Xcard in my (hardware I'll never use again) drawer. That things was awesome when it came out.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

The reason this isn't plug and play with xp is one: Xp is almost 10 years old. h.264 and vc-1 didn't even exist in the pc space yet (IIRC). .

Being tech-savvy, but not TV Video codec savvy, I'm suffering for lack of a HOW-TO guide in going from Sage SD to Sage HD. One of you, or better yet, Sage, should have that, and it would include the gotcha that I didn't know I'd hit, with XP and decoders. Heck, I didn't even find a tutorial that said what format Sage expects from the HD-HVR (which hindsight tells me is H.264 and the .TS format - transport/storage?) So this trip from SD to HD has been like off-roading at night without headlights. Kind of reminds me of my early days in Unix, long ago, where the experienced users scoffed and thought me to be an idiot because I didn't know what I didn't know. Those Sage users here that do have patience and empathy are really helpful. And for the sake of other migrators, it sure would be good to have that HOW-TO migrate SD to HD guide.

[cumak]

I've been following this thread because I've been having the same exact problem as stevech. I determined early on that I was having a codec problem, and over several nights I tried every suggestion I found in this thread and elsewhere in this forum with no success. However, last night I finally found a solution that worked.

Basically, if understand correctly, the newer version of TME that ships with the HD-PVR does not allow 3rd party applications like SageTV to "borrow" it's codec. So, even though you can manually register the ArcSoft video decoder using something like DirectShow Filter Manager, and select it in SageTV as the H.264 filter, the decoder still won't run and hence you get the infamous playback error.

ffdshow did not work very well for me, so I really wanted to get ArcSoft working (especially since I indirectly paid for it). So, in searching for a solution I finally came across this post on AVS forum:

How to use TMT 3 decoders in third party apps

I'm not sure how or why it works, but I followed the instructions to the letter and now I get smooth H.264 playback on my server.

This post assumes that you have an earlier version of TMT, which I didn't. I found a trial version of TMT2 available for download here. (*** See edit below before downloading ***)

*** Edit - the TMT link above worked perfectly for me, but I recently installed a new antivirus software and it flagged one of the TMT files. I still don't know if there is anything malicious in TMT, or if the AV program is just being too sensitive, but proceed with caution if you download TMT from this link.

-Mark

[mistergq]

Thanks for posting Mark. I am not sure if this is justifiable, but for many of us, when we got the HD PVR when it first came out, it worked pretty easily. We also had the earlier version of TMT and don't understand or appreciate that the newer version does not come with the right codec.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by mistergq

Thanks for posting Mark. I am not sure if this is justifiable, but for many of us, when we got the HD PVR when it first came out, it worked pretty easily. We also had the earlier version of TMT and don't understand or appreciate that the newer version does not come with the right codec.

Mark - yes. Same plight.
Could there be so few people trying to use HD-PVR rev E and newer that the solution isn't known?

The link above on how to fake TMT3 to work freely with 3rd party apps (like Sage) - was posted in March of 2009! That's a long time ago.

Why did Sage not include an H264 decoder for XP/Win7 in their HD-capable product? This is the question. And for a newbie, there were no instructions or guides or disclaimers. So a video-codec neophite like me just gets a display from Sage "playback error -4,nnnnn" which is a classic. At least it could have said "you need an H264 codec for that video file". Sage did did have a decoder with standard def versions of Sage.

>>>>What does "clean the registry" mean in this part of the instruction at the link from above:
Uninstall TMT 2 and clean the registry (Not necessary for this to work but it may be for TMT 3 Installation).
?

[stevech]

Originally Posted by mistergq

Thanks for posting Mark. I am not sure if this is justifiable, but for many of us, when we got the HD PVR when it first came out, it worked pretty easily. We also had the earlier version of TMT and don't understand or appreciate that the newer version does not come with the right codec.

Nor does Sage's support guy.
HD-PVR works. It's the lack of H264 codecs in Sage that's the focus here. The suggestion to go to Win7 Home Premium was made. Maybe what that really means is go piggy-back on Microsoft's MCE codecs rather than ArcSoft's since ArcSoft defeated 3rd party apps from getting a free ride.

[cumak]

Originally Posted by stevech

>>>>What does "clean the registry" mean in this part of the instruction at the link from above:
Uninstall TMT 2 and clean the registry (Not necessary for this to work but it may be for TMT 3 Installation).
?

I didn't bother to do that. I just uninstalled version 2 and then installed the latest that was included on the HD-PVR CD, and it worked fine.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by stevech

The suggestion to go to Win7 Home Premium was made. Maybe what that really means is go piggy-back on Microsoft's MCE codecs rather than ArcSoft's since ArcSoft defeated 3rd party apps from getting a free ride.

Yes, of course that was the point. If you have Windows 7, you don't need to worry about the Arcsoft codec. Windows 7 has a built-in codec that can be used.

As to why Sage chose not to include an h.264 driver you would have to ask them. My guess is cost vs. value. They would have to pay someone to license a codec if they wanted to re-distribute one. This would force them to charge more for the software. Since most people have relatively easy access to a codec from some other source, they probably decided it wasn't worthwhile to make all of their customers pay for something that most of them wouldn't need.

• Windows 7 has been out for a couple of years now (WinXP is at end of support life now and it is very difficult to even buy a PC with Windows XP anymore) and Win7 includes the requisite codecs.
• When the HD-PVR was released, it included the correct codec. More recent versions of the Arcsoft software have made it more difficult to access it.
• If you buy a BluRay player for your PC, chance are that it will include a codec.
• If you buy software for creating your own DVD's and BluRay's, chances are that it will include a codec.
• There is also a free open-source program called MPC-HC (Media Player Classic - Home Cinema) that includes an h.264 codec.
• If you use a Sage extender (HD300) for playback, you don't need to worry about codecs at all.

Personally, I have an HDPVR rev E3 that I bought less than a year ago (brand new). I did not have to jump through the hoops described to use the Arcsoft codec (though I did have to manually register the filter, I did not have to install a trial version of something, clean the registry, uninstall, create a text file,... as described in someone else's post). My feeling is that Sage cannot be expected to know when a 3rd party company like Hauppauge will change what software it includes on its install disk. Not, when they must keep supporting capture devices from dozens of other manufacturers, based on different broadcast standards for different countries, and on multiple OS platforms.

There is a sticky with FAQ's in the main SageTV Software section of these forums that points you in the right direction on all this:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...029#post348029
It could probably use some updating to mention alternative ways to obtain and install an h.264 codec.

Of course, even after listing all the reasons that it makes sense not to include a codec, I have to admit that this can be a very confusing concept for the uninitiated and is something that Sage could do more to document.

Along those same lines, they could probably do a better job with their error messages (rather than a cryptic playback exception error, couldn't they bring up some help text to explain what the problem is?).

[stevech]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Yes, of course that was the point. If you have Windows 7, you don't need to worry about the Arcsoft codec. Windows 7 has a built-in codec that can be used.

What is the name of the video and audio codecs in win7? Where are they found? How does one select them in Sage? I think I discovered how-to, but not sure.

What can I do to get decent performance even in Win 7 for H264? I don't know if I've done the right thing, but I stumbled around and found "Microsoft DTV-DVD" video and audio decoder AFTER hours of wasted time. This decoder doesn't seem to use hardware acceleration, or my video chips are too old and I need better video card - as the HD frame rate is about 10-15 FPS. Where can I read about what video chips/speed are needed, recommendations, and how to get a codec that's compatible with Sage and Windows 7 DirectWhatever, and Hauppauge's HD-PVR? (and is XP hopeless?)

Originally Posted by Tiki

As to why Sage chose not to include an h.264 driver you would have to ask them. My guess is cost vs. value. They would have to pay someone to license a codec if they wanted to re-distribute one. This would force them to charge more for the software. Since most people have relatively easy access to a codec from some other source, they probably decided it wasn't worthwhile to make all of their customers pay for something that most of them wouldn't need.

I really disagree with this logic. Only the enthusiast would be in this situation. That Sage omitted H264 decoder support at all, for PCs, and then compounded the problem with the missing mention of the challenges to get a decoders, esp. in XP, is hard to forgive. Gee, the missing HD decoder is like buying a car without a fuel pump - buyer assumed the car would work.

Originally Posted by Tiki

• Windows 7 has been out for a couple of years now (WinXP is at end of support life now and it is very difficult to even buy a PC with Windows XP anymore) and Win7 includes the requisite codecs.
• When the HD-PVR was released, it included the correct codec. More recent versions of the Arcsoft software have made it more difficult to access it.
• If you buy a BluRay player for your PC, chance are that it will include a codec.
• If you buy software for creating your own DVD's and BluRay's, chances are that it will include a codec.
• There is also a free open-source program called MPC-HC (Media Player Classic - Home Cinema) that includes an h.264 codec.
• If you use a Sage extender (HD300) for playback, you don't need to worry about codecs at all.

Again, how is the "ordinary" user supposed to know this? I do have an HD300, but as I did for Sage in SD, step one is to simply get the server and tuner working using a PC before using an Extender! Without the wisdom of hindsight, how could I know about the H264 decoder mess, especially with the hopeless error message on playback?
In the migration from SD to HD, and not knowing about the arduous task of understanding, locating, and installing/configuring a decoder for HD for Sage PC clients, including the SERVER's client is disconcerting. If there are free open source, no cost to Sage, why wouldn't they at least include that?

Originally Posted by Tiki

Personally, I have an HDPVR rev E3 that I bought less than a year ago (brand new). I did not have to jump through the hoops described to use the Arcsoft codec (though I did have to manually register the filter, I did not have to install a trial version of something, clean the registry, uninstall, create a text file,... as described in someone else's post).

Originally Posted by Tiki

My feeling is that Sage cannot be expected to know when a 3rd party company like Hauppauge will change what software it includes on its install disk.

My feeling is that it was wrong for Sage to assume that customers could/should use Arcsoft's intellectual property that is bundled via some legal agreement with Hauppauge, not Sage. And Sage provided decoders for their standard definition product; why not for HD????

Originally Posted by Tiki

Not, when they must keep supporting capture devices from dozens of other manufacturers, based on different broadcast standards for different countries, and on multiple OS platforms.

There is a sticky with FAQ's in the main SageTV Software section of these forums that points you in the right direction on all this:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...029#post348029

Originally Posted by Tiki

It could probably use some updating to mention alternative ways to obtain and install an h.264 codec.

That's understated!

Originally Posted by Tiki

Of course, even after listing all the reasons that it makes sense not to include a codec, I have to admit that this can be a very confusing concept for the uninitiated and is something that Sage could do more to document.

Along those same lines, they could probably do a better job with their error messages (rather than a cryptic playback exception error, couldn't they bring up some help text to explain what the problem is?).

Amazingly, Sage's tech support guy is not informed on HD decoders and able to help, beyond how it was done way back with the now-disabled Arcsoft decoder that Sage apparenlty presumed we could use even today.

After giving up on XP viewing, I used Win7/decoders to view, then used the HD300. Even in Win7, Sage does not even display Win7's decoder in the "KNOWN DECODERS" list.

Skipping on after days on the PC decoder issue, it took just an hour to get the HD-PVR working. I wasted days on a wild goose chase on the decoder issue using XP. I just didn't know that this essentially doesn't work. Nor did I know that Sage's video playback error was because Sage provides the product with no H264 video/audio decoders and, at least for me, Sage doesn't tell the mere mortal that one must find, install and configure these, and a general how-to. I made the mistake of assuming that if I cannot playback an H264 file on the server that I pressing on integrating the HD300 or HD-PVR was pointless. Ah Hindsight; if only I'd known that the process isn't what was done back in my Standard Def bring-up days with Sage where it WOULD work out of the box!

Yes, the HD300 just-works. But gee, it would have been so simple to just inform the uninformed (me and others migrating from SD to HD).

Without this forum and helpful end-users, I'd have given up and sent the whole lot back for a refund. But I didn't: Thanks, Users!

And I volunteer to help write a terse Road from SD to HD document - assuming I'm not the last dolt to try.

[panteragstk]

You are correct stating that there needs to be some sort of "how-to" for getting HD playback to work no matter what format. That means that there would be guides to blu-ray, HDTV, and the numerous HD files that can be downloaded. The only problem with that is there are so many formats (it's getting better) that even the guide might miss something. It took me MONTHS to get video playback to work properly when I first bought sage and that was v6. There was no h.264 decoder selection in the detailed setup menu. In other words it is about 1/5th the effort it used to be.

Glad you got it working. We'll see about getting some sort of guide posted in a sticky or something.