Tuner Priority

[hackzaw]

Here's my situation. I've got two OTA antenna's, each pointing to different markets (one towards Toronto, and the other towards Buffalo). I've got two HDHR dual tuner boxes, and each antenna feed one unique HDHR (did this for performance reasons, rather than combine the two antenna's and split it out four times).

On each HDHR, I pull in between 18-23 channels depending which one it is. There is quite a fit of overlap of channels that BOTH antenna's receive (which one would think is a good thing).

Here's the problem. If I have two recordings on the go, and one (or both) of the channels could have been recorded on either HDHR, Sage is selecting both tuners on HDHR#1 all the time. Normally, this isn't a problem, except if I'm browsing the guide, and see a program that is exclusively only available on tuner HDHR#1, I can't change the channel because both tuners on HDHR#1 are in use.

It asks me if I want to cancel one recording and then change channels, and I want to tell Sage, "no, continue recording that program on HDRH#2 to free up a tuner on HDHR#1".

Is there a way to list tuner priority. Then I would stagger the priority appropriately, such that:

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0"
Priority 2= HDHR#2 tuner "0"
Priority 3= HDHR#1 tuner "1"
Priority 4= HDHR#2 tuner "1"

Possible or some other way?

[hackzaw]

I may have found my own answer now that I've done a better search...

"encoder_merit"

[PiX64]

yup thats is encoder_merit will denote the priority used to record. i have several tuners so mine go from

encoder_merit=5 down to 0

5 being highest priority of course

so i would do

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 3
Priority 2= HDHR#2 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 2
Priority 3= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 1
Priority 4= HDHR#2 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 0

[pjpjpjpj]

hackzaw, FWIW, I have the same deal (two dual HDHRs, each with an antenna pointing a different direction at different cities, with lineup overlap). But I used the different city lineups for each set of tuners (rather than them all sharing the same). Each city's lineup had all the same channels (each city is "expected" by Zap2It to get both cities' stations), but since I set them as different cities, they are seen by Sage as separate lineups. This would give me two of each channel in the EPG (since they have slightly different names in the two city lineups). So then I disable the other city's stations on each HDHR's city lineup. This leaves me with one single EPG - stations from one city are only receivable on that city's antenna/HDHR. Yes, that means I only have two tuners that can pull from any one city, rather than four - but since most stuff OTA is major network (available in both cities) and PBS (reshown constantly on one of many subchannels between both cities), I never get a conflict.

However, it sounds like what you are describing wouldn't even matter if you had priorities (merit) set. If you are just scanning the guide and find something you want to watch, the tuners could be taken already based on what you have as favorites, regardless of the merit. In other words, if two shows from "only City 1" happened to be recording, your merit couldn't help that.

Hope that makes sense...

[PiX64]

yeah those are good points pj.

i only used encoder merit when i had mutliple sources which had some channel overlap so for example i had

2 hdhr pulling QAM
and
2 HDHR pulling OTA

there is overlap with HD local content, but since comcast QAM is kinda crappy i would always want channel 2 to pull from OTA.

doesn't make sense to me right now that i typed it back up but i swear it made sense to me at one point in time :-D

[hackzaw]

I guess I'll find out soon enough exactly how tuner merit works, but if I assign it the way you've laid it out, PiX64, like this:

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 3
Priority 2= HDHR#2 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 2
Priority 3= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 1
Priority 4= HDHR#2 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 0

I'm thinking this tuner merit would help, but perhaps not completely eliminate my problem.

For instance, if Fav 1 is available on either HDHR#1 or 2, it should record it on HDHR#1, right. Then, let's say Fav 2 is only available on HDHR #1, so now, HDHR is once again all used, so if I was browsing the guide, and wanted to watch something that was only on HDHR#1, I'm out of luck again.

Where this should help is if the first two (or more importantly, the second) favourites is a shared channel, then with merit set accordingly, it should record it on the second HDRH, leaving one tuner available on each tuner.

[wayner]

I would multiply your encoder_merit settings by 10 and adding 10 (so that you have 40,30,20,10) in case you get other tuners and want to reorder in the future. This way you don't have to change the number for your existing encoders as you can just give a new encoder a merit of 5, 15 or whatever.

[hackzaw]

Good idea Wayner. Thanks for the tip.

[ThePaladinTech]

This looks like what I am after?

I just got my Ceton card going - I have the HDHR doing local OTA and would like the HDHR tuners to be first priority for the few channels they get, so would I do something like this?

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 90
Priority 2= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 80
Priority 3= Ceton tuner "0" encoder_merit= 70
Priority 4= Ceton tuner "1" encoder_merit= 60
Priority 5= Ceton tuner "2" encoder_merit= 50
Priority 6= Ceton tuner "3" encoder_merit= 40

Or do I have that all catty-wumpus? or just plain wrong?

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

This looks like what I am after?

I just got my Ceton card going - I have the HDHR doing local OTA and would like the HDHR tuners to be first priority for the few channels they get, so would I do something like this?

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 90
Priority 2= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 80
Priority 3= Ceton tuner "0" encoder_merit= 70
Priority 4= Ceton tuner "1" encoder_merit= 60
Priority 5= Ceton tuner "2" encoder_merit= 50
Priority 6= Ceton tuner "3" encoder_merit= 40

Or do I have that all catty-wumpus? or just plain wrong?

That's one way to do it. You could also do this:

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 20
Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 20
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "0" encoder_merit= 10
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "1" encoder_merit= 10
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "2" encoder_merit= 10
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "3" encoder_merit= 10

Whichever solution fits your needs better.

[sumrtym]

I know I'm chiming in with a bit of a different question, but if you had a HDHR set for OTA and an HD-PVR or Colossus tied to a STB, isn't there a way to just assign certain channels to always be OTA for viewing?

I guess what I'm thinking is you'd scan with the HDHR, then with your HD-PVR, can't you just eliminate your duplicates on the HD-PVR via STB so when you look at your guide and see CBS for example, it's always the CBS from the HDHR so when live viewing / recording you get the better OTA picture.

Only thing you lose is if you needed to record / watch more than 2 things at once on an OTA channel from the HDHR and you eliminated the duplicates from the guide coming in on the HD-PVR.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by sumrtym

I know I'm chiming in with a bit of a different question, but if you had a HDHR set for OTA and an HD-PVR or Colossus tied to a STB, isn't there a way to just assign certain channels to always be OTA for viewing?

To do this, you would disable those specific channels for the HD-PVR/Colossus encoder, by toggling off the little round green circle. But, as you pointed out in your example, you would be limited to recording/viewing two OTA shows at a time. You would not be able to record/view a third OTA show, even though a tuner/encoder is sitting there idle.

It all boils down to personal design decisions based on your individual situation.

[sumrtym]

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

To do this, you would disable those specific channels for the HD-PVR/Colossus encoder, by toggling off the little round green circle. But, as you pointed out in your example, you would be limited to recording/viewing two OTA shows at a time. You would not be able to record/view a third OTA show, even though a tuner/encoder is sitting there idle.

It all boils down to personal design decisions based on your individual situation.

Ya, figured, but I would seldom have / want 2 more than 2 recordings going on at once, especially when it's more CBS / ABC / NBC. I'd rather watch / record the higher OTA so for me, at least, it makes sense to disable those on the HD-PVR viewed from the STB. Besides, I rather dislike having more than one listing of the same channel in the guide (HD-PVR ABC STB & HDHR ABC OTA for example). Thanks again!

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Ya, figured, but I would seldom have / want 2 more than 2 recordings going on at once, especially when it's more CBS / ABC / NBC. I'd rather watch / record the higher OTA so for me, at least, it makes sense to disable those on the HD-PVR viewed from the STB. Besides, I rather dislike having more than one listing of the same channel in the guide (HD-PVR ABC STB & HDHR ABC OTA for example). Thanks again!

You can manually combine the same channel if you like so there is only one listing in the guide. I actually like having the OTA channels listed separately so I can pick a specific tuner\channel in the favorites or for Live TV. If you set the Merits correctly it will always use the HDHR first before going to the HD-PVR. The favorites priority will decide what gets bumped if you don't have enough tuners.

It makes no logic sense not to keep OTA stations on the HD-PVR if you have that option.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by sumrtym

Besides, I rather dislike having more than one listing of the same channel in the guide (HD-PVR ABC STB & HDHR ABC OTA for example).

I'm not sure how you have yours set up, but I don't get multiple listings of the same channel in the guide. Only a single listing, and Sage decides by encoder merit and by tuner/encoder availability which one to use.

[sumrtym]

Waiting on a HDHR so not set up yet, but because they will be on antennae for OTA and the HD-PVR / Colossus will be connected to STB, the channels aren't exactly the same (will have a different channel listing) for the same channel (example: ABC OTA by antennae 4.1 but channel 8, for instance, on STB). Thus, wanting to manually remove the channel 8 as I don't want to record it / view it live through the HD-PVR / Colossus since the quality will be inferior to the OTA from the HDHR. Less scrolling through a bunch of channels I don't care about is always better (why I'd remove things like my religious channels, etc.) Nice to have a more compact list....somewhat anyway.

As I said, I can't imagine wanting to record / view 3 shows from ABC, NBC, CBS at the same...for me at least.

[ThePaladinTech]

Where do I determine what number is what tuner though?

the string in properties is something like this:
mms\ecoders\somenumber

The number seems random to me?

[ThePaladinTech]

found it -

For those that are looking it looks like this:
mmc/encoders/123453/video_capture_device_name=

So that tells you the number that relates to the name

Originally Posted by Opus4

Check out the mmc/encoders/<some number>/encoder_merit=<value> properties for each capture device, in Appendix A of the PDF manual. Higher <value> is higher priority.

- Andy

[ThePaladinTech]

one last question

can I group all these merit lines together in my properties file?
Right now I have them all at the beginning of the entire mmc/encoders section - is that ok? or do they need to be with each tuner?

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

This looks like what I am after?

I just got my Ceton card going - I have the HDHR doing local OTA and would like the HDHR tuners to be first priority for the few channels they get, so would I do something like this?

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 90
Priority 2= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 80
Priority 3= Ceton tuner "0" encoder_merit= 70
Priority 4= Ceton tuner "1" encoder_merit= 60
Priority 5= Ceton tuner "2" encoder_merit= 50
Priority 6= Ceton tuner "3" encoder_merit= 40

Or do I have that all catty-wumpus? or just plain wrong?

Originally Posted by KeithAbbott

That's one way to do it. You could also do this:

Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "0" encoder_merit= 20
Priority 1= HDHR#1 tuner "1" encoder_merit= 20
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "0" encoder_merit= 10
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "1" encoder_merit= 10
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "2" encoder_merit= 10
Priority 2= Ceton tuner "3" encoder_merit= 10

Whichever solution fits your needs better.

Doing it the way KeithAbbott describes better matches how encoder_merit actually works - remember that (unless something changed in v7) "encoder_merit" is a slight misnomer. It really means "lineup merit for this encoder". So as long as all the Cetons share the same lineup, and all the HDHRs share the same lineup, this works as you would expect.

What you can't do is have two encoders sharing the same lineup and then expect encoder_merit to prioritize one physical encoder over the other. So for example, what ThePaladinTech describes wouldn't actually prioritize Ceton tuner #0 over Centon tuner #1 - because they share the same lineup they share the same priority.

--John