Schedules Direct EPG Plugin PoC Completed

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by VCRUser

Which version(s) of Sage does this support?

It is written for v7 only.

Adventurous/advanced users would be able to get it to work on Sage 6 (or any version of Sage that supports the EPG plugin classes) as long as they're also running Java 5 or later, but I will not be offering any such advice nor support for older versions of Sage (too much of a headache to try and support it because setting this up on Sage 6 or older, though possible, is not straightforward).

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by davephan

I did not see the Schedules Direct plug-in on your web site. Could you post a link where to download it?

I think it would be a good idea for someone to start collecting e-mails from everyone on this forum that wants to be on an e-mail notification list. The e-mail notification list will be needed before this forum is shut down. If this forum is shut down, it will probably happen fast with no warning. Then many of the current forum users can be notified by e-mail what forum will replace this forum. It would be best if the replacement forum was a place that is independent of Google.


Dave

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

It is not yet available because it currently is against the schedules direct ToS (which restricts it to free/non-market software). It will take an exception to be made for sage (since you could argue it's non-market) to make it a legit option.

Exactly... not to mention that after I got it working, I stopped working on it. It's rough around the edges and needs some work before I'd think about sharing it. And I can't even share it until Google announces an EPG shutdown date. Then I have to get an exemption from Schedules Direct on top of that. It's probably at least 10-11 months before I can even begin that process. I won't be able to share it until then, at the earliest.

[hb4]

I just set up Schedules Direct to work on my ReplayTV via a 'plug-in' called WIRNS. It's been available in WIRNS for some time, but is now necessary because the ReplayTV service (DNNA) is ending on July31st. In other words, DNNA used to receive $12.00 per month to keep the box alive and served with EPG. They have decided it's not worth it, so they're shutting it down.

Somehow, the WIRNS folks convinced SD that they're OK. I think some of the discussion about how that happened is documented on Planet Replay and/or the AVS Forum.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by hb4

I just set up Schedules Direct to work on my ReplayTV via a 'plug-in' called WIRNS. It's been available in WIRNS for some time, but is now necessary because the ReplayTV service (DNNA) is ending on July31st. In other words, DNNA used to receive $12.00 per month to keep the box alive and served with EPG. They have decided it's not worth it, so they're shutting it down.

Somehow, the WIRNS folks convinced SD that they're OK. I think some of the discussion about how that happened is documented on Planet Replay and/or the AVS Forum.

Yeah, I've already talked to SD and "filed all the paperwork" and the word I got back from them after they talked to Tribune is that it's a "no" for now and the foreseeable future. When Google announces a shutdown date for the EPG server then I'm suppose to revisit the situation with the SD folks.

[Fuzzy]

In the meantime, perhaps we should look into doing something around MC2XML, in case the answer from tribune at that time is still a no.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

In the meantime, perhaps we should look into doing something around MC2XML, in case the answer from tribune at that time is still a no.

Yeah, this will probably be my first fall project when I get back into coding mode for SageTV. The problem I have with supporting mc2xml or xmltv is that the process becomes so much more complicated. First, an external tool is now added to the mix. In the case of mc2xml, I can't even package it myself as the licensing requirements are pretty clear that the author doesn't want it packaged by third parties. So step one for mc2xml support is, "go download mc2xml, install it, and configure it."

Then both of these tools require manually mapping of channels to lineups as there is no way to determine which channels belong to which lineup, though I think at least in the case of mc2xml, it only supports one lineup (per config file). Which brings the next problem up: if you need more than one lineup then you need multiple config files and executions of mc2xml, etc. More of a mess...

Even as I think about it, I cringe a little each time. I think I'll definitely look into mc2xml/xmltv support in the fall, but it will definitely be a separate plugin and I'm not making any promises - especially because the SD plugin serves my needs.

[nyplayer]

mc2xml and XMLTV Sage importer already work... and with XMLTV Sage importer you can make as many lineups as you want.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

mc2xml and XMLTV Sage importer already work... and with XMLTV Sage importer you can make as many lineups as you want.

Excellent... scratch one thing off my todo list for the fall!

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Excellent... scratch one thing off my todo list for the fall!

Now that was not meant to discourage you from creating a built it plugin..

[hugenbdd]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

Now that was not meant to discourage you from creating a built it plugin..

nyplayer
Have you found a setup article for sage? Something like a step by step guide? I did a bit of searching, but didn't see anything very specific to US. Most seems to be for Canada or other countries.

Thanks
Dave

[Fuzzy]

That is part of the problem, there aren't any concise guides for the XMLTV setup. Honestly, I think someone needs to work with Stephane to make an in-sage UI for the importer. It could also easily launch the MC2XML executable to grab the data as well (of course, I'm not sure how hard it would be to make a plugin that pulls the data straight from the MC sources in the way MC2XML does).

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

Now that was not meant to discourage you from creating a built it plugin..

It wouldn't take much to discourage me because my plan is to use Schedules Direct and the SD plugin I've written. What I will probably do is refactor that code over the coming months such that it'll accept XMLTV file(s) as input as well and import XMLTV data into the EPG. But how users generate that xmltv data is up to them. I just envision a massive headache trying to support mc2xml or xmltv (app). If I just say, "get your xmltv xml files some way, somehow and once a day this plugin will look for them and import them" then that's a little more manageable.

I mean it's really night & day when you take a look at the SD plugin I've written vs. setup required for xmltv/mc2xml. My plugin: create your SD account, set it up with your lineup(s), install my plugin, configure the plugin with your SD id/pwd, restart Sage, reconfigure your tuners with the new lineups, forget about it.

I took a look at the setup instructions for the xmltv plugin and I stopped reading after the 3rd or 4th screen. And I know why the instructions are so long... it's not that simple to handle generation of that input, plus mapping of lineups, etc. and then getting it all into the Sage EPG. Realistically, since I'll never use it, it's very unlikely I'd tackle an xmltv plugin, especially since there's already a working solution out there.

[Polypro]

Thanks bud, you do TVGod's work.

P

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by davephan

I think it would be a good idea for someone to start collecting e-mails from everyone on this forum that wants to be on an e-mail notification list.

Dave

Good idea. Also, we could rally at the as yet to be created "Official SageTV Rally Thread" on AVS>HTPC?

P

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Slugger

I mean it's really night & day when you take a look at the SD plugin I've written vs. setup required for xmltv/mc2xml. My plugin: create your SD account, set it up with your lineup(s), install my plugin, configure the plugin with your SD id/pwd, restart Sage, reconfigure your tuners with the new lineups, forget about it.
... Realistically, since I'll never use it, it's very unlikely I'd tackle an xmltv plugin, especially since there's already a working solution out there.

Since I'm a little thick when it comes to this kind of thing (), basically, if I understand correctly...when Sagetv shuts down their EPG server next June, the plugin you wrote is what most of us will likely end up using? That would also mean we each open a $25 annual account with SD? Will it be that simple, or is there something I am missing and should start planning for?

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by Slugger

The only issue with this particular plugin is that I can't release it without an exemption from Schedules Direct. However, when the need for this plugin arises then the exemption required shouldn't be an issue. Again, it seems we have ~12 months to worry about that.

So, could you ask them for the exemption early??? I really would hate to be trying to update 3 servers at the last minute.

Also, I've been to their site, and they are begging for subscribers/money.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

So, could you ask them for the exemption early??? I really would hate to be trying to update 3 servers at the last minute.......

Don't know if you are aware or not but Slugger did finish an EPG plugin based on mc2xml that works like a charm.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57265

[NetworkGuy]

Originally Posted by Slugger

1) Schedules Direct is a non-profit client of TMS with a very specific contract. I'm not a lawyer and don't know all the specifics, but SD is only able to provide EPG data to individual users who will not in turn feed the data to commercial applications. SageTV is considered a commercial application.

Furthermore, software provided for public release that use this data must also be free of cost and/or open source.

This plugin will be open source so that's not an issue. The only issue is that the plugin feeds data into SageTV, which is still considered a commercial app. However, when the need arises for this plugin it would be presumed that SageTV is no longer a viable commercial app and therefore, I'm told, that getting an exemption to release it publicly won't be an issue. Just in case that exemption doesn't come through, I have a backup plan. Let's just say, either way, EPG data will be available, though the backup plan isn't nearly as simple to use as this solution is.

Slugger,

The key reason you can not release the plugin is because "SageTV is considered a commercial application". Correct?

Well, I can no longer purchase the SageTV software and the company that make it no longer exists. So, how can SageTV be considered a viable commercial application?

Just curioius if Schedules Direct would not reconsider at this time.

Thanks,
John

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by NetworkGuy

Slugger,

The key reason you can not release the plugin is because "SageTV is considered a commercial application". Correct?

Well, I can no longer purchase the SageTV software and the company that make it no longer exists. So, how can SageTV be considered a viable commercial application?

Just curioius if Schedules Direct would not reconsider at this time.

Thanks,
John

The hope is that if sage does pull the plug on their epg data, then that will be the case. however, until sage stops paying zap2it for the data, tribune (schedules direct) isn't going to give it away for free.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The hope is that if sage does pull the plug on their epg data, then that will be the case. however, until sage stops paying zap2it for the data, tribune (schedules direct) isn't going to give it away for free.

so then why couldn't someone approach SD with a proposal to pay them, aka a bulk rate for all 'ex' Sage owners, i.e. if you have a sage license you can pay for the data. Say $10 year per license? Why wouldn't they want a piece of that?