Server Recommendations

[hb4]

With the coming open source version I'd like to buy/build a new box that I'd use with my extra license and HD300 to test the OS version/plugins, etc.. It would eventually become the main (only) server. My present server lives in a large Silverstone box in the same room as the screen and has a noisy fan. (would never run both servers at once)

So, the requirements are:

• Fanless
• Windows 8.1 or 10 (eventually)
• Low tech (I'm a hobbyist)
• SSD
• 3tb storage
• (3) USB (HDPVR,Kb/Mouse,External HD)
• 1Gb Lan port
• Audio out (RCA)
• VGA (TV as monitor)
• HDMI (HD-200)

I see some small units with an Atom processor - are they suitable?

[reggie14]

Does it really need to be silent, or just quiet? It sounds like you intend to use this just as a server, not as a client. So, can you tuck it somewhere in the room where you can get away with some quiet fans?

I understand the desire for silent clients- those almost have to live under/near the TV. And you don't need a lot of power or expandability for a reasonable client.

For servers, I'd be worried about making the necessary tradeoffs for silent operation. Could you run Sage on an Atom? Probably, but I'd worry about the server being a little too slow to drive the UIs on several extenders without some hiccups every now and then. The fastest Atom SoC, the C2750, is probably slower than your AMD Phenom II, and almost certainly has much slower single-threaded performance.

Plus, the 8-core Atoms tend to use fans, whether on the SoC heatsink or somewhere else in the case.

I think an Atom would be a poor choice for a server if you intend to run comskip and/or hope to transcode. While you can get a fanless Haswell, I think you'll find that most builds still involve one or more fans. There are special-built boxes that are fanless, but I haven't seen one that has space for an SSD plus a 3.5" hard drive.

[hb4]

Thanks, Reggie

If I move the server, I need to either move the Comcast box, HD-PVR, and extend the coax; or find a way to deliver the HD-PVR USB signal to the server. Or am I missing something? Also need to find a way to access it with kb and mouse and display it on the TV.

Thanks for pointing out that fanless systems use dedicated boxes, i.e., it's more than just the motherboard and chip.

What about just finding a used laptop?

[KryptoNyte]

I've often considered using a laptop computer as a sage server. I decided against the laptop because I wanted a system that would be running solid for years, and the heat from a continually running system is hard on a laptop. I also want my Sage server to be the central location for all recordings, internally, which for me meant multiple hard drives, so a laptop or small system of any kind really isn't the right choice.

If five recordings are going at once, that is also a fair amount of comskip instances running simultaneously for a quiet (and slow) system to run.

I finally pulled the trigger and decided to build a mid-tower high performance server with very quiet fans, put it in a discrete location, as near as I can get it to where the cable enters the house, and then purchased extenders to use at the television. It was a jump at the time, but well worth it for a system that I planned to run for years.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by hb4

If I move the server, I need to either move the Comcast box, HD-PVR, and extend the coax; or find a way to deliver the HD-PVR USB signal to the server. Or am I missing something? Also need to find a way to access it with kb and mouse and display it on the TV.

I don't know your situation, so I'm not sure what would work best for you. It could be next to your TV is the best place.

In general, once you set up the server you shouldn't need to muck with it much. When you do, I find it's easier to RDP into it. My server is tucked away in a storage room. I do have an old monitor hooked up to it, but 95% of the time I just RDP into it from a laptop or workstation.

Originally Posted by hb4

Thanks for pointing out that fanless systems use dedicated boxes, i.e., it's more than just the motherboard and chip.

You can find fanless coolers for CPUs. But when the case itself can't act as a heatsink, you're going to need an awfully large heatsink. They exist, but they're pretty big. You still need airflow through the case, though. So that's how you end up either needing a special case or some case fans.

Originally Posted by hb4

What about just finding a used laptop?

My laptops aren't terribly quiet when their fans kick on. It seems like a bad idea to me. I don't think you'd get the best bang-for-your-buck in terms of noise reduction.

Anyways, I think its completely possible to put together a very quiet mini-tower. I didn't go to any great trouble to build a quiet PC, and I can't hear it 4 feet away under my desk unless I try very, very hard. If you're careful with your components, I think you can build one that you won't notice.

[nyplayer]

How about a high end Intel NUC?

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/...age-guide.html

[reggie14]

A NUC won't have space for a 3.5" hard drive. It might be irrational, but I'd be nervous about using a USB hard drive for recordings. A NUC also has a fan.

A NUC might be a great option for a high-powered client, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a server. Personally, I'd probably want a case with room for a boot SSD and 2x3.5" recording drives (even if I originally would only plan to use one).

Something like this might be a nice size. It has room for 2x3.5" hard drives and 2x2.5" SSDs. The main part of the case appears big enough to accommodate larger CPU coolers, which would be needed for nearly-silent operation. There's a large 200mm fan in the front. At that size the fan should be quiet. If its not, you should be able to find an different 200mm fan that is very quiet.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by reggie14

A NUC won't have space for a 3.5" hard drive. It might be irrational, but I'd be nervous about using a USB hard drive for recordings. A NUC also has a fan.

A NUC might be a great option for a high-powered client, but it wouldn't be my first choice for a server. Personally, I'd probably want a case with room for a boot SSD and 2x3.5" recording drives (even if I originally would only plan to use one).

Something like this might be a nice size. It has room for 2x3.5" hard drives and 2x2.5" SSDs. The main part of the case appears big enough to accommodate larger CPU coolers, which would be needed for nearly-silent operation. There's a large 200mm fan in the front. At that size the fan should be quiet. If its not, you should be able to find an different 200mm fan that is very quiet.

The newer NUCs have room for a sata3 2.5 HDD drive... I believe.

http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-nu...-review_133823

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

The newer NUCs have room for a sata3 2.5 HDD drive... I believe.

http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-nu...-review_133823

Don't all the NUCs have room for a 2.5" hard drive?

The OP seems to want an SSD for a boot drive and a 3TB recording drive. The 3TB recording drive will require a 3.5" slot, as 2.5" drives only get up to 2TB.

An eSATA external hard drive wouldn't be so bad, but if you're not tight on space, why not get something bigger? You can probably build a quieter mini-ITX box (at least, quieter under load), although it's likely to cost you more than a NUC.

[hb4]

So, some options...

A trade-off between fanless and internally connected storage. A NUC with outboard SATA ports might work, if there were such a thing.

Engineering a quiet fanned case/cpu cooler may be beyond my abilities/patience; I'll have to think about that..

I'll have to look at whatever houses the server unless I move it to another space.

I've been using a USB drive (along with internals) for several years without problems, but it's always seemed somewhat vulnerable.

I remember having to add a USB card to give the HDPVR its own USB bus. With only using the HDPVR for HBO and HBOGo an option, maybe slots for accommodating the HDPVR should not drive the decision.

Thank you! Keep the ideas coming!

[reggie14]

To what extent are space and money a concern? I assume they're both concerns, but are there hard limits, or at least strong desires? Those can be limiting factors.

[hb4]

So, cost and size;
Neither is a huge issue. The largest issue is 'no configuration induced failures' with 'quiet' a close second.

I can deal with the sound issue by installing an outdoor splitter and some coax and moving the server/comcast box/HDPVR to the next room if my self-engineered quiet box is - not quiet.

But I can't necessarily deal with the 'Need a separate USB bus for the HD-PVR', or 'Need an Intel NIC for the network connection (if not part of the MB)', or 'Need to use special network addressing for a NAS'.

Or any other (as yet unknown to me) special requirements of future cable co. changes, open source Sage, or tuners that my choice of hardware precludes.

All that seems to point towards a built up system rather than a NUC-type system at present, as much as I'd like to let Intel engineer the quiet heat rejection part. It doesn't seem like it's possible for the system to be both fanless and flexible.

[tvmaster2]

I have, basically the system you're discussing: ssd boot, 3TB of storage and 4gb ram on a gigabyte board with AMD chipset.
For a while I used an AMD Phenom II dual, but if I hit it remotely it got really sluggish. Upped the dual to a quad-proc and it was a world of difference.
Problem: more heat. Solution: louder fan noise.
It's hard to avoid, sadly, but the extra speed/heft is worth it for Plex, Placeshifter, or anything accessed off-site.

[newyankee]

Fan-less is much overrated. Besides Sage, I have a audio recording studio in my home. By using Noctua CPU coolers and case fans, and also over specked power supplies such as a Seasonic Snow Silent, I got the noise of a fairly robust system down to the sound of the spinning hard drives (until SSD's arrived.) Modern fans (like Noctua NF-S12A) are truly silent.

[Fuzzy]

The cost to build up a really quiet system is going to be far more than the cost to simply move it somewhere that the noise doesn't matter.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by newyankee

Fan-less is much overrated. Besides Sage, I have a audio recording studio in my home. By using Noctua CPU coolers and case fans, and also over specked power supplies such as a Seasonic Snow Silent, I got the noise of a fairly robust system down to the sound of the spinning hard drives (until SSD's arrived.) Modern fans (like Noctua NF-S12A) are truly silent.

the only fans I've ever had noise problems with are CPU fans. The quietest I've found are by Arctic Cooling, but under load, they still spin up to a frenzy

[hb4]

This is great info, thanks!

Unfortunately, the viewing area is in an 800sf houseboat and there isn't any other practical location to move the server where noise doesn't matter, although there is a combination office and dressing room where it matters less. I could also build a little attached 'data closet' I suppose, but that seems like overkill.

So my choices are:

1. Fanless system (NUC-like) with no 'workaround' ports, disk capacity, or card slots (anyone tried it with HDPVR and Homerun Prime?).
2. A self-engineered quiet build (yuk, but eager to hear of successes).
3. Others?

For a build, it looks like I'll have to..

• Use a low power CPU (suggestions/max power/laptop cpu?)
• Get a case designed for sound control (suggestions?)
• Get a quiet CPU cooler
• Anything else?

[reggie14]

I don't think you need to be quite as concerned about noise. Home-built systems from years past used to be pretty loud. It's a lot easier to build quiet systems now, but the cost will go up quite a bit if you want it nearly silent.

Get a case with a small number of relatively large case fans. I don't have any direct experience with it, but I bet the mini ITX case I referenced earlier would be pretty quiet. If its not quiet enough, you could swap out the large 200mm fan.

If you're willing to pay a bit more, this Fractal Design case looks nice. It's a bit more closed off than the Thermaltake case, which might help with noise containment. I think it would be a safe choice.

For CPU, I don't think it matters that much. The CPU will clock down when you're not pushing it hard, so it's only going to get particularly hot if you're actually making use of it. With a decent cooler, I think you'll be fine with any CPU with a TDP at or below 65 watts. If you want a quad core, I wouldn't worry about getting a 65-watt Haswell.

For coolers, just do some research to find one that's quiet and small enough to fit in the case. Anandtech did a nice article a while ago.

The Hyper 212 EVO would be a solid choice on the cheaper end of the spectrum. If you're willing to spend more, the Noctua coolers are highly regarded. Personally, I'd be nervous about getting too big of a cooler. While most things should technically fit, installation may prove challenging. The Noctua NH-U14S might be a good choice.

[hb4]

Originally Posted by reggie14

With a decent cooler, I think you'll be fine with any CPU with a TDP at or below 65 watts. If you want a quad core, I wouldn't worry about getting a 65-watt Haswell.

That is very helpful; I think my current noise problem is from trying to cool the 125W Phenom. The CPU fan spins up while Sage is recording and makes lots of noise. Less wattage, better cooler might solve the problem.

The Fractal Design case looks very nice; I like that it will fit on the shelf of the TV stand (height).

And that article is great. I'll start choosing parts and report back for engineering peer review.

[Skirge01]

My server is running an i7-3770T, which runs at 2.5GHz and has a TDP of just 45W. The case fans (running on high) are only slightly louder than the fans in the HDD cages and even like that it's fine sitting 2 feet away from me, at ear level, while I'm working or gaming. This server runs VMware's hypervisor and hosts a SageTV VM running XP, a pfSense firewall VM, a Windows 7 VM (primary server: web hosting, storage duties, etc), and a WHS2011 (used only for remote access) VM. I also run up to 3 instances of Comskip in the XP VM. The only thing I don't do, which I know a lot of Sage users do, is transcode anything, but this server handles everything I throw at it with relative ease.

Check out silentpcreview.com for all things quiet or silent. I'll buy anything they recommend which fits my needs and it's the only source I use when looking for a fan.