HDHomerun DVR ... DRM

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

As long as my Server is on Windows I will not use the mini Client if I connect 2 after a while memory errors. I hate to say it but this application has become a Linux thing and the heck with windows users. It has become more of a click and niche APP.... which I knew would happen once it went open source. I believe Windows support will slowly die.

I started looking at a 64 bit Windows build. No promises on where it goes but I did want you to know that I am also interested in seeing the Windows version live on.

[wnjj]

Don't forget the "live TV freeze" issue that was fixed for the Windows ciient. Plenty of Windows users responding to that thread.

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

The only reason I see people jumping to Linux is because they want 64-bit today, not 6+ months from now. I honestly could have gone either way. I went the Linux route because the SageTV docker is even easier to maintain than the Windows SageTV server. There are even some ideas going around to make that somewhat moot if we start to do full SageTV upgrades from within the UI.

Well, there also is the stuff Microsoft started doing in Windows 8, and more specifically with the launch of Window 10, it soured a lot of people on the Windows OS as a platform and sent them into the lands of Linux.

But yeah, the big thing for moving into Linux is it compiles Sage, and as such, has already been adapted to 64bit operation in large part. That bigger JVM is a big deal for many users, and since many/most SageTV installs are "headless" to start with, the OS Layer isn't too big of a deal for many people. They'll use whatever does the job for their needs.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Well, there also is the stuff Microsoft started doing in Windows 8, and more specifically with the launch of Window 10, it soured a lot of people on the Windows OS as a platform and sent them into the lands of Linux.

But yeah, the big thing for moving into Linux is it compiles Sage, and as such, has already been adapted to 64bit operation in large part. That bigger JVM is a big deal for many users, and since many/most SageTV installs are "headless" to start with, the OS Layer isn't too big of a deal for many people. They'll use whatever does the job for their needs.

That's an interesting comment. I wonder what percentage of Sage installs are headless? I would have guessed that most are not headless.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Well, there also is the stuff Microsoft started doing in Windows 8, and more specifically with the launch of Window 10, it soured a lot of people on the Windows OS as a platform and sent them into the lands of Linux.

But yeah, the big thing for moving into Linux is it compiles Sage, and as such, has already been adapted to 64bit operation in large part. That bigger JVM is a big deal for many users, and since many/most SageTV installs are "headless" to start with, the OS Layer isn't too big of a deal for many people. They'll use whatever does the job for their needs.

I agree with your first statement. I am in charge of designing and maintaining the Windows 10 image my workplace will be using later this year when we do our mass migration. Based on everything I have discovered about Windows 10, I'm fairly certain it will not see the light of day on anything in my home. I'm reasonably convinced that Windows 7 is the end of the road for me.

I have no idea what the average user is doing for a server, but I have always done headless and I can say that Linux is by far better suited for headless than Windows 10 will ever be. I say this partly because of the uncontrollable updates. Windows 10 will never be an ideal platform for any PVR software so long as it cannot be tamed by a normal home user on all versions. Another part of it has to do with how much is running that you really don't need for a headless PVR and the very dense network stack. Some of those things that are running actually cause problems when you create new recordings for example because Windows tries to do far too much and often in a very badly conceived way. I'm sure the intentions were good, but the result is just bad.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Well, there also is the stuff Microsoft started doing in Windows 8, and more specifically with the launch of Window 10, it soured a lot of people on the Windows OS as a platform and sent them into the lands of Linux.

I'd go to something else, but the stuff I use that's really important is Windows/Mac only, and such as I've tried so far, I like Mac less than Windows. If I could get Lightroom and Photoshop on Linux, I'd probably switch.

I don't really mind using Windows 10, but there are definitely some things I don't like, and the direction it's going.

Originally Posted by Tiki

That's an interesting comment. I wonder what percentage of Sage installs are headless? I would have guessed that most are not headless.

Mine's always been headless, even when it was Windows. I'm using the Docker mainly for convenience. It saves me from running another machine 24/7, or having to run a whole Windows VM just for Sage.

[Taddeusz]

SageTV at least seems to run better under Linux. I've noticed that it seems to consistently use less memory over time than running on Windows.

Like Stanger I'm running the docker. Running under unRAID. Other than my Windows domain controller I'm running at home it's the only other computer that's run 24/7. I now have quite a few services running as docker containers. Today I even dockerized a Node.js web service I wrote for a home passion project that I had previously running through an Ubuntu vm. With the exception of the Apple VPN I have running that completed my move away from vm's for services.

As for systems that we sit and use I prefer Windows or macOS. Just to reiterate what Stanger said, while there are decent open source alternatives to many of the commercial Windows or Mac software packages I've found that they either don't provide nearly the same functionality or are more difficult to get the same functionality.

Let's not mention games.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Let's not mention games.

But steam....

In all honesty, I used sage under a Windows VM, and a physical windows box without issues for years. I used full PC clients though so I didn't have memory issues. This was with v7. Pc clients worked well, but had their own set of issues as others have stated. I'll be using a v9 client PC once I get the theater done in my new house. It will be w7 just for simplicity.

Now I use sage in a docker and my colossus cards in the same windows VM and everything works great. I have a shield TV and a mi box and both are pretty flawless. Skipping is instant and only rarely has issues. 5.1 doesn't work since I have mpeg2 recordings, but I'm looking to transcde on the fly, but haven't had the time to look into it. Exoplayer plays mpeg4 files without issue and I get 5.1 back.

Basically, my SageTV experience has been very good, but I don't realy need the windows server component for anything other than to host my colossus' as network encoders.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Tiki

That's an interesting comment. I wonder what percentage of Sage installs are headless? I would have guessed that most are not headless.

Personal stats:

3 years ago:
3 headless - 1 non-headless all Windows 7

Current:
4 headless 2 Linux & 2 Windows 7.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by EnterNoEscape

I agree with your first statement. I am in charge of designing and maintaining the Windows 10 image my workplace will be using later this year when we do our mass migration. Based on everything I have discovered about Windows 10, I'm fairly certain it will not see the light of day on anything in my home. I'm reasonably convinced that Windows 7 is the end of the road for me.

I have no idea what the average user is doing for a server, but I have always done headless and I can say that Linux is by far better suited for headless than Windows 10 will ever be. I say this partly because of the uncontrollable updates. Windows 10 will never be an ideal platform for any PVR software so long as it cannot be tamed by a normal home user on all versions. Another part of it has to do with how much is running that you really don't need for a headless PVR and the very dense network stack. Some of those things that are running actually cause problems when you create new recordings for example because Windows tries to do far too much and often in a very badly conceived way. I'm sure the intentions were good, but the result is just bad.

You really hit the nail on the head there. At our small business, 20 machines or so, Windows 10 has been a living hell. We run 50 to 60 different pieces of engineering software, and you can always tell when Microshaft forces a Win 10 update, because the IT guy has that Windows 10 look of disgust on his face as he runs from machine to machine to patch the problems. Seriously - we are struggling to get work done at this point. It would be a miracle that the people on the planet don't put together a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for the amount of lost work time due to this fiasco. I'll stay with Win 7 also, with all system updates disabled, until they start to sneak in the updates anyways, bringing Win 7 systems to a crawl - the same way they did XP.

[KryptoNyte]

For the die hard Win 7 users, if you keep your eye on Walmart's website, you can usually get a deal on Win 7 Pro 64 bit OEM;

https://www.walmart.com/ip/36009635

I grabbed a couple of these last week for $89 each.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

You really hit the nail on the head there. At our small business, 20 machines or so, Windows 10 has been a living hell. We run 50 to 60 different pieces of engineering software, and you can always tell when Microshaft forces a Win 10 update, because the IT guy has that Windows 10 look of disgust on his face as he runs from machine to machine to patch the problems. Seriously - we are struggling to get work done at this point. It would be a miracle that the people on the planet don't put together a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for the amount of lost work time due to this fiasco. I'll stay with Win 7 also, with all system updates disabled, until they start to sneak in the updates anyways, bringing Win 7 systems to a crawl - the same way they did XP.

I'll just say that not everyone is having those kinds of problems with Windows 10. Personally I've not had any major problems with Windows 10 or its updates. Your experience at work sounds like an overzealous IT leaping before testing situation. Not all software is always compatible with new major versions of Windows. Especially more specialized software such as those for engineering. This is the reason that businesses have traditionally waited a version or two before even testing a new Windows in their environment. They especially don't run a brand new Windows immediately except for maybe certain people in IT or specifically for testing. While certainly not always true you can't necessarily blame Windows for problems because a modern computer system is such a complex machine with more variables than even most IT professionals can fully grasp.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I'll just say that not everyone is having those kinds of problems with Windows 10. Personally I've not had any major problems with Windows 10 or its updates. Your experience at work sounds like an overzealous IT leaping before testing situation. Not all software is always compatible with new major versions of Windows. Especially more specialized software such as those for engineering. This is the reason that businesses have traditionally waited a version or two before even testing a new Windows in their environment. They especially don't run a brand new Windows immediately except for maybe certain people in IT or specifically for testing. While certainly not always true you can't necessarily blame Windows for problems because a modern computer system is such a complex machine with more variables than even most IT professionals can fully grasp.

What is it about a modern computer system (a typical desktop workstation) that you believe is too complex for Microsoft to understand while developing a "new" operating system? They do seem to have more money than god - or at least they ... have had.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Not all software is always compatible with new major versions of Windows. Especially more specialized software such as those for engineering.

I do all of the software packaging at my workplace too and I can vouch for the engineering software issues.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

What is it about a modern computer system (a typical desktop workstation) that you believe is too complex for Microsoft to understand while developing a "new" operating system? They do seem to have more money than god - or at least they ... have had.

It's not always about the operating system itself but all the OTHER software that gets loaded after that causes things to go all pear shaped. Running software that is officially only compatible with Windows 7 doesn't mean it won't run on a newer version of Windows without causing problems but it's also not meant to run in a newer environment. That's what testing is for.

I mean no offense by this but sometimes it's the IT person, especially in a smaller business that only has a single individual, that is the root of issues like these. IT people, myself included at times, can be pig headed about their knowledge and may not even admit to themselves that they don't know what they don't know. Unfortunately, it's just the nature of the IT ego but can be just as damaging.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

It's not always about the operating system itself but all the OTHER software that gets loaded after that causes things to go all pear shaped...

This is true. Still, I can't help but wonder why a company that has the resources that Microsoft has can't make an operating system more intuitive as the years go by, rather than less intuitive (as perceived by the user).

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

As for systems that we sit and use I prefer Windows or macOS. Just to reiterate what Stanger said, while there are decent open source alternatives to many of the commercial Windows or Mac software packages I've found that they either don't provide nearly the same functionality or are more difficult to get the same functionality.

Let's not mention games.

For "personal use" I'm on Win10, and I've actually come to prefer several aspects of the GUI under Win10... After getting it as close to the WinXP desktop as I could get.

Of course, that personal use includes games.

However, I'm not happy with MS trying to monitor me since Windows 10 went into beta(and patching Win7 and later to do the same), but acknowledge Google does the same thing on Android. Apple also does much the same with their stuff. Which basically leaves Open Sourced efforts like Linux as the last man standing.

I know a lot of people that are shifting to Linux on that ground alone. From a "Home Server" standpoint, the enforced updates in Win10 just further encourages people to not use a Windows platform so they don't have to deal with seemingly random updates breaking things at bad times for them. At least they can control when those updates happen on a Linux Box.

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

This is true. Still, I can't help but wonder why a company that has the resources that Microsoft has can't make an operating system more intuitive as the years go by, rather than less intuitive (as perceived by the user).

They're going for a "one OS to rule them all approach, and they're still fixated on the Home PC market to the detriment of business users. In the Home market, the desktop is dying, it is being replaced in large part by smartphones and tablets. As such, since Windows 8 they've been transitioning towards "a unified experience" and the method they chose was to make the desktop OS more like what you'd find on a tablet or smartphone.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

However, I'm not happy with MS trying to monitor me since Windows 10 went into beta(and patching Win7 and later to do the same), but acknowledge Google does the same thing on Android. Apple also does much the same with their stuff. Which basically leaves Open Sourced efforts like Linux as the last man standing.

Don't be so sure about that. Ubuntu is, or was the last I checked, doing some squirrelly stuff with Amazon searches when you use the search feature. Just because it's open source doesn't mean they won't spy on you.

[EnterNoEscape]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I'll just say that not everyone is having those kinds of problems with Windows 10. Personally I've not had any major problems with Windows 10 or its updates. Your experience at work sounds like an overzealous IT leaping before testing situation. Not all software is always compatible with new major versions of Windows. Especially more specialized software such as those for engineering. This is the reason that businesses have traditionally waited a version or two before even testing a new Windows in their environment. They especially don't run a brand new Windows immediately except for maybe certain people in IT or specifically for testing. While certainly not always true you can't necessarily blame Windows for problems because a modern computer system is such a complex machine with more variables than even most IT professionals can fully grasp.

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Don't be so sure about that. Ubuntu is, or was the last I checked, doing some squirrelly stuff with Amazon searches when you use the search feature. Just because it's open source doesn't mean they won't spy on you.

However when it's open source, these things can more easily discovered by interested parties when this does happen. I recently discovered that a library that Windows 10 depends on reaches out to a huge list of websites every time you log in as a user. We discovered this at my workplace when it couldn't reach one of them and it was effecting searching the start menu and browsing speed in Edge.