Using the DVB EPG to control a STB

[Doubletop]

Can anybody point me to the thread for this?

I have an HVR4000 from which I can get the full EPG for Freeview and the Sky channels (NZ Freeview is DVB-S) . I have my Sky STB connected to a PVR350 with a blaster doing the channel change. The EPG has separate entries for each channel, so each uniquely maps to Freeview on the HVR4000 or to the Sky STB setup.

So how do I set up some of the EPG channels to drive my blaster and control the Sky STB/PVR350 and the others remain set to the HVR4000?

I've pointed the PVR350 at the HVR4000 EPG and remapped the Sky logical and physical channels and it works for the first channel change then won't change to any other channel either on the PVR350 or HVR4000. Also after a while the Sky channels seem to loose their progamme data which is a worry

Any clues?

[StephaneM]

Hello,

Originally Posted by Doubletop

I have an HVR4000 from which I can get the full EPG for Freeview and the Sky channels (NZ Freeview is DVB-S) . I have my Sky STB connected to a PVR350 with a blaster doing the channel change. The EPG has separate entries for each channel, so each uniquely maps to Freeview on the HVR4000 or to the Sky STB setup.

I reviewed your PDF in the other thread, and I think that the fact you have duplicate channels for each source is what is causing you troubles.

Forget for now that you have two video sources, focus on the channels only. You manage to have two XMLTV files, these files when put together have all the channels with some duplicates.

When in the Importer:

* Create logical lineups. The best definition for a lineup is: create a collection of channels that you can receive on more than one video source with the same channel numbers. In your case : a Sat Freeview lineup, a SKY lineup (I maybe wrong but you get the idea). You don't have to create "junk" lineup anymore.

* Now it is time to distribute channels among your lineups. My suggestion would be to populate first the lineup with the greatest number of channels (to avoid having too many duplicated channels to add later).

* In the main channel list of the Importer, assign a channel number and a lineup only to the channels you want to have in your guide. When you have a XMLTV duplicate => choose one of them as the valid data source and don't assign a channel number for the other one.

* Then to populate the other lineup: assign the unused channels in the main channel list if any and duplicate the channels you already used for the first lineup. It is very important here when duplicating the channels to keep the XMLTV ID the same as the original otherwise you'll have a duplicate channel in SageTV.


Now a sample. I have three video sources :

* Satellite (4 channels) with a blaster
* DVB-T (3 channels) with a frq file
* Analog Aerial (1 channel) direct tuning

I have one XMLTV file with four channels :

* Channel A (channela.fr as XMLTVID)
* Channel B (channelb.fr as XMLTVID)
* Channel C (channelc.fr)
* Channel D (channeld.fr)

I create three lineup like this: Sat Lineup, DVBT Lineup, Analog Lineup

For the Sat Lineup (xmltvid / name / number):

* channela.fr / Channel A / n°11 (11 = what the blaster send)
* channelb.fr / Channel B / n°32
* channelc.fr / Channel C / n°43
* channeld.fr / Channel D / n°54

For the DVB-T lineup (xmltvid / name / same as / number):

* channela.fr / Channel A / channela.fr / n°1 (1 = the channel number in frq file)
* channelb.fr / Channel B / channelb.fr / n°2
* channelc.fr / Channel C / channelc.fr / n°3

For the Aerial Lineup (xmltvid / name / same as / number):

* channela.fr / Channel A / channela.fr / n°25 (25 = the frequency index for tuning)

This way in your SageTV guide, you only have four channels, and SageTV knows how to tune each of them on each video source (correctly balancing tuning on availabe tuners). The only thing that might disturb you is that the displayed channel number in SageTV can be anyone of the three lineups channel number. For instance for Channel A, in SageTV it can be : 11 or 1 or 25 (it depends on the order you added the lineup if I remember)

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Doubletop]

Stéphane. I think you have misunderstood. Previously the HVR4000 did not work with SageTV so I was using MyTheatre as a network device and xml2epg to capture the XMLTV file and your importer to create the lineups for the PVR350 and HVR4000. Your explanation above is excellent and shows I hadn't quite got it right. However, now the HVR4000 does work as a native device with SageTV and I want to know how I can use the EPG directly from the HVR4000 to control the devices on the PVR350. This would dispense with the need for MyTheater, xml2epg, your XML Import tool and also the XMLTVNZ grabber that creates an XMLTV file from the web. If I can get it to work it will be far tidier solution. that doesn't use XMLTV files all So I think your excellent post here relates to that other post. http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...624#post244624

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Doubletop

now the HVR4000 does work as a native device with SageTV and I want to know how I can use the EPG directly from the HVR4000 to control the devices on the PVR350.

Well, normally you can reuse an existing lineup, but I don't think it will work because to my knowledge you cannot use part of an existing lineup (you can use it totally) and I think that the tuning information is shared (that's why you probably can't tune right on the PVR350)

IMHO it is far easier to go with XMLTV. If MyTheatre does a good job retrieving the EPG, the I would create a batch file to use it (whenever SageTV will not use the DVB card) for this only pupose.

If you combine mutliple EPG source without letting them through the XMLTV Importer, you'll have some duplicated shows (as the EPGID between the DVB source and the PVR350)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Doubletop]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

IMHO it is far easier to go with XMLTV.

I agree its currently easier to go with XMLTV but in NZ we don't have a reliable source. There are a couple of guys here who do a valiant effort with grabbers but the sources are constantly changing.

Given that the functionality to map channels and lineups to sources is available in SageTV when using XMLTV, it must surely be feasible to expose this capability for EPG gathered straight from the satellite.

The cludge would be for an XMLTV export of the Sat EPG (if thats possible) and then turn it around in XMLTV importer. Or for the SageTV guys to take note of this whole discussion group, which appears to have been debating the subject for four years now, and provide the capability within SageTV.

Or better still somebody from SageTV clearly explain how it can be done now.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Doubletop

I agree its currently easier to go with XMLTV but in NZ we don't have a reliable source.

If the DVB-EPG is reliable, use MyTheatre to get the EPG in XMLTV format...

The cludge would be for an XMLTV export of the Sat EPG (if thats possible) and then turn it around in XMLTV importer.

It's doable but it is not something that practical, because of the EPGID. The problem is that for a bette experience, you have to feed SageTV guide with data coming from the same provider for the EPGID to be reliable betwenn lineups. So if you use XMLTV, you should use XMLTV for all the lineups.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Doubletop]

Stéphane.

The Sat EPG would be the sole source of EPG data as all the available channels in NZ have the EPG data available from the satellite. There would be no need to use a grabber to get the XMLTV as well.

The trouble is some channels are Sky and encoded so have to come through the STB to get decoded, that's what I am using the PVR350 for.

The point of this thread is to not use MyTheatre or any other grabber as the source for XMLTV. It shouldn't be necessary at all. I, like many SageTV users, want to get away from being obliged to use third party apps and utilities to make SageTV work. Amongst other things for the EPG alone it requires XMLTV grabber to XMLTV Importer or MyTheatre to xmltv2mtepg to XMLTV Importer. As well as scheduled tasks and batch files, its all a mess.

To summarise:

I am seeking to find out how to get the satellite EPG thats in SageTV and then provide, (in SageTV), a means of assigning one instance of each channel to the appropriate one or more source devices. (as you described above)

If that can't be done, then an export of the SageTV EPG and then process it through XMLTV importer and feed it back to SageTV as XMLTV lineups. (again as you described above)

Hopefully somebody has the answer

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Doubletop

I am seeking to find out how to get the satellite EPG thats in SageTV and then provide, (in SageTV), a means of assigning one instance of each channel to the appropriate one or more source devices. (as you described above)

You can't.

If that can't be done, then an export of the SageTV EPG and then process it through XMLTV importer and feed it back to SageTV as XMLTV lineups. (again as you described above)

You can (it requires writing a plugin though), but as I said, this is not something that you'll want to do because of EPGID (unless you also create a dedicated plugin for reinjecting SageTV own guide data).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Doubletop]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

You can (it requires writing a plugin though), but as I said, this is not something that you'll want to do because of EPGID (unless you also create a dedicated plugin for reinjecting SageTV own guide data).

Stéphane.

I've been reflecting on this since I sent my last post and why can't what you describe in your reply be done in XMLTV Importer? As the neilm web user interface demonstrates that the epg data is available outside of SageTV how about you making your XMLTV Importer an XMLTV Importer/Exporter? Much in the same way that xmltv2mtepg does for MyTheater. That would then avoid having to arrange to shut down SageTV, run MyTheatre to provide the data, pass it through xmltv2mtepg, XMLTV Importer and restart SageTV.

The new function in XMLTV Importer would turn the EPG from SageTV into an XMLTV file which could then run back through XMLTV Importer, as with any other source. If users wished other XMLTV sources could be merged in, as can be done today. If necessary XMLTV Importer could manage/change all the EPG ID's to be consistent. Lineups and channels could then be defined as you describe in your one of your previous posts above.

It would work fine for me as I just would not use any other sources.

Worthy of consideration or not?

Pete.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Doubletop

That would then avoid having to arrange to shut down SageTV, run MyTheatre to provide the data

You can leave SageTV running: it doesn't use the card when it is not recording (or grabbing EPG).

The new function in XMLTV Importer would turn the EPG from SageTV into an XMLTV file which could then run back through XMLTV Importer, as with any other source .../... Worthy of consideration or not?

This is not a good idea:

* If the SageTV data should stay inchanged, the the Importer would have to use the same EPGID for the new lineup. And this requires much changes to the Importer, it would require a whole different application

* If SageTV data can be changed, this way the Importer can control the EPGID. Well in this case, the Importer and SageTV will overwrite each other continously

Either the Importer is used to manage all lineups, or it should not be used. So really a dedicated plugin should be made to "copy" SageTV lineups internally, without needing to convert to XMLTV.

If you have a Media Center OS and Media Center have a good EPG for your country, you can also use it as an XMLTV source (a Media Center to XMLTV converter exists).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Doubletop]

If you have a Media Center OS and Media Center have a good EPG for your country, you can also use it as an XMLTV source (a Media Center to XMLTV converter exists).

We don't have anything complete and freely available and that's the problem.

I must say it strikes me as dumb that there is perfectly good data within SageTV and it can't be used in a sensible manner. This results in the need to resort to uber cludges to make it a work properly.

Having to include references to MyTheatre, Media Centre, DVBDream and numerous other 3rd party addins into the discussions on the SageTV forum only goes to illustrate there are limitations that could do with getting fixed.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Doubletop

I must say it strikes me as dumb that there is perfectly good data within SageTV and it can't be used in a sensible manner .../... Having to include references to .../... 3rd party addins into the discussions on the SageTV forum only goes to illustrate there are limitations that could do with getting fixed.

There are numerous thing that can't be done without 3rd party plugins. I'm glad that SageTV could be extended that way: this open possibilities. SageTV cannot resolve by itself all the problems right away.

Try to find another PVR software that does it all and is stable enough to be reliable. The diversity of hardwares, protocols and specification for EPG / subtitles / video format / data licence etc... make the whole PVR thing a very difficult project to realize.

Anyway I give you some advice for handling your issue right now. You can of course submit a feature request to the SageTV dev team.

Regards,
Stéphane.