Confused

[johnwmreed]

I am sorry, but I don't mean to be disrespectful or dense. The the Sage line of hardware, software and licenses is very confusion to someone who is just getting started in setting up a home theater system.

You need some charts/diagrams that show computers, TVs and extenders along with what software and licenses are required and on which computers. You need charts/diagrams when there is one, two or three computers, one. two or three TVs.

You sell Sage Media Center software and Sage Media Server software. you sell licenses. You sell non-HD media extenders and HD media Extenders.

How about explaining what licenses and software (for one server computer) I should (have to) buy along with one HD Media Extender (for one TV)?

[Polypro]

If you run XP or Vista, you need SageTV Media Center. This will be your server (and client if you hook a display device to it). The HD Extender comes with a license that allows it to connect to the above.

If you run WHS, you can do the same as above, but use the SageTV WHS version.

P

[Bandit]

You also do not need the extender if only using the one TV, your server can serve as a client. You can always add on an extender later.

[dgeezer]

However, the HD media extender is a great solution to have at your TV which would allow you to locate the server (recording PC) soemwhere else. Of course this is assuming that you already have a network set up and cables run to where the TV is located. The extender comes with the appropriate license There is also a bundle which includes software for the PC.

The SD Media Extender (Media MVP) is older technology and the HD Extender is a much better solution. It will do HD as well as SD. The HD Extender is what finally made me switch from GBpvr to Sage.

My setup is fairly basic it consists of:

An HP computer in the basement connected to a 42"vizio LCD tv.
This has 2 tuners ( HVR-1600 and HVR-1800 ) This handles all recording and also plays back on the vizio TV. This is really all you would need to get started.

An HD-100 media extender upstairs attached to my TV in the living room.
This handles playback of recordings, movies and music stored on the HP downstairs. My wife only uses the extender. She is much happier since the extender just works.

I agree that it can be confusing.

[pjpjpjpj]

The thing that keeps a lot of people away - and I don't know if this is the case here - is the idea that you need a high-powered PC and need to have it near the TV, or that you have to watch TV on your PC. This is, of course, because many (most?) of those who go the HTPC route are tech-savvy people who want to watch on their PC, or who don't even have a separate TV (use their PC as their TV).

The extender - especially the HD Extender - allows you to not even have a high-end video card and a decent-speed PC. You can have an old dinosaur (like me) and just keep it in the basement, and effectively use it as a high-end, multi-function, customizable, "Media Center/DVR". Heck, with a network tuner gadget (like an "HD Homerun"), you don't even need a TV PC card in your PC.

johnwmreed, I'm not a techie, I just use my laptop at home for basic internet, word processing, yada, yada. I had a spare PC in the basement that I had wired to my router via a CAT5e cable. Neither of them have the "juice" to watch HD video. But when I discovered SageTV and decided to use it as a "Media Center/DVR" solution, all I had to buy was an HDHomerun, an HD Extender for my family room television (not near the basement server PC), SageTV software for the server, a large USB hard drive for media storage, and CAT5e cable to connect the HDHR and Extender to the router). It was pretty close to being plug-and-play.

(okay, I actually bought two HDHRs so I have four tuners, and two HD Extenders, but I just said one of each above for simplicity of description)

Anyway, my point is, it sounds like you are overthinking this. The hardware comes with a license, and any software comes with a license. But you only need the basic SageTV software to get started. Anything else beyond that is just based on how many locations or pieces of hardware you want to be able to access Sage on.

[bluenote]

I totally hear where you're coming from. Some years ago that I got started with sage, it was an absolute pain in the ass to figure out all the little nooks and crannies and customizations , to plan in advance, whether the solution I wanted was going to be possible, and how best to accomplish it.

Even the trial and many hours running the software still left me with a lot of questions. Eventually through the forum and elbow grease I got where I wanted to be. It would be nice if it was easier, and for sure, there could be clearer summaries of the various tasks and the 'decision tree' necessary to do more than basic stuff.

I guess it's kind of a rite of passage around here.

Cory

[johnwmreed]

Thanks so much for the responses. It is much clearer now.

Right now I have a standard analog cable TV and the house wired for gigabit ethernet - no DVR, only a local network between two computers. One of the computers is a one year old HP machine (HP Pavilion Media Center TV m8000n Desktop PC) that I bought for my wife for browsing and email - obviously a severe overkill! However, I have this dream in mind: buy a Plasma HDTV, a receiver (to hook up the existing DVD, the existing Laser Disk player - really!, future Blueray player, etc.) which are all in the living room next to an ethernet port. I then use the HP as my DVR/server and buy a Sage HD Media Extender. I am now almost in business. The HP computer came with a TV card - of course I don't really know what it is. HP won't say - just give me a long list of capabilities. Last night I installed a trial version (21 days) of Sage Media Center for Windows 6.3 and am watching analog shows on my HP - wow it works! It said it found a Hauppauge WinTV 418 TS on my computer. I went to the the Hauppauge site and couldn't find a 418.

So My question now is: Is there someway I can figure out if this TV card is going to work with my dream system, specifically the Sage HD Media Extender?

[dgeezer]

I have almost the same PC. HP m8200n media PC. I think that the card that is showing up as a Hauppauge 418 is an HVR-1600. That's how it shows up on my settings screen in Sage. If so then you would be able to use this card in SageTV to record SD cable (analogue) over the air HD and probably digital cable ( QAM).

I would probably just download the 15 day trial and try out some recordings etc. You could also fire up Windows Media Center and see how the card plays.

Oh, if it is an HVR-1600 it will have 2 ( or maybe 3 ) coax connections.
Cable
ATSC
FM - some Hauppauge cards have a radio tuner.

In order to use both tuners you will need to split your cable and hookup both connections, or, hook your antenna to the ATSC terminal to get over the air HD.

If you get her PC working as a server then attaching the HD extender is truly just plug and play. This is truly one of the few such devices I have ever used that has lived up to it's hype.

[dgeezer]

Doh, I see you have already downloaded the trial.

The extender mimics everything you see on your PC monitor on the TV to which it is attached. Therefore, you should have exactly the same viewing experience on the extender as you now have on the pc. The 418 TS is the digital tuner.

[pjpjpjpj]

john,

If you want to watch TV on your "other" PC, then you would need a client license for that PC. But if you get the extender and put it on that "dream" plasma, then you may not have a need for that.

Also, I don't know if you realized, but you can rip off your DVDs (and future Blu-Rays) to your PC hard drive (though you likely will need to buy a larger external drive) and you won't ever need a player attached to that plasma. All the DVDs/BRDs will play through SageTV on the HD Extender. Personally, that's one of my favorite features... and is a real "wow" factor to friends and visitors, when I open the DVD menu and they see all the DVD titles with cover art showing.

I can't speak for laser discs though.

(actually, if nothing else, I suppose you could get one of those gadgets meant to allow you to put old VCR tapes onto DVD - that typically take a "video out" from the player and goes to USB, and comes with DVD authoring software - and use that to "rip" your laser discs)

[johnwmreed]

Wouldn't that be neat if HP put a HVR-1600 in my wife's computer. It does have 3 coaxial connections (DVT-Ant., TV/Cable Ant. and FM Ant.). I think I will spend some time comparing the specifications that HP gave me with the ones from Hauppauge for the HVR-1600.

The idea of using the VCR to DVD route for converting my old laser disks to digital is great - that should work. I'll have to think about eliminating the receiver and doing everything digitally - interesting idea.

[dgeezer]

Actually, you could also make digital copies of your laser discs using your newly discovered HVR-1600. It's been a long time but I made copies of all my analogue camcorder tapes by attaching the video out cable from the camcorder to the video in of the TV card. I can't remember if the card I was using, Hauppauge PVR-150, had audio in or if I went thru the microphone plug on the pc, but it worked fine. I would just cue up the home movie, set the Hauppage app to record and hit play.

I don't know if you can do this in Sage or not, but you can download the WinTv app here

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by dgeezer

Actually, you could also make digital copies of your laser discs using your newly discovered HVR-1600. It's been a long time but I made copies of all my analogue camcorder tapes by attaching the video out cable from the camcorder to the video in of the TV card. I can't remember if the card I was using, Hauppauge PVR-150, had audio in or if I went thru the microphone plug on the pc, but it worked fine. I would just cue up the home movie, set the Hauppage app to record and hit play.

I don't know if you can do this in Sage or not, but you can download the WinTv app here

Actually, I bet that would work. I bought one of those USB gadgets by ADS (there are lots of them, by Pinnacle, KWorld, etc., etc.) many years ago, and it works great with my laptop (no room for a TV card). But if the laser disc player had coax out, I am sure you could connect to the analog input on your TV card and use it for that same purpose.

BTW, john, you may want to pick up an HD Homerun - or another ATSC card if you have a slot available - because you'll want more than one digital tuner available, especially next year!

[johnwmreed]

In response to the comment: "BTW, john, you may want to pick up an HD Homerun - or another ATSC card if you have a slot available - because you'll want more than one digital tuner available, especially next year!"

Not sure I understand. Why do I need two tuner cards? I hook one coaxial to the PC - that is what I am doing now, and Sage software is working fine. Then when I get my new plasma HDTV which will be in the living room I buy and attached a Sage Media Extender to the TV via a coaxial output in that room. Now both PC and TV are connected with coaxial cable connections to Comcast cable, and also with ethernet local network connections.

At this point I subscribe to digital cable input from Comcast and buy two cable boxes - one for the PC and the second installed before the Sage Media Extender.

What is wrong with this picture?

p.s. It would help if there were some charts/diagrams from Sage

[carlgar]

You don't NEED more tuners, it was just a suggestion. You are probably used to watching live TV. With Sage that will probably change to you will watch recorded shows when you want to, not when aired. With multiple tuners you can record multiple shows that are on at the same time. If you have no programming conflicts you have no need for multiple tuners. I have 8 tuners on line right now, so I do not have any conflicts. You would need to split your cable to support multiple tuners and with splits you reduce your signal strength so you may need to get an amplifier. It can increase the complexity quite a bit if you don't understand what is going on. Best to start simple with the one tuner. But I agree you will add more tuners and disk space in the future.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by johnwmreed

Not sure I understand. Why do I need two tuner cards? I hook one coaxial to the PC - that is what I am doing now, and Sage software is working fine. Then when I get my new plasma HDTV which will be in the living room I buy and attached a Sage Media Extender to the TV via a coaxial output in that room. Now both PC and TV are connected with coaxial cable connections to Comcast cable, and also with ethernet local network connections.

At this point I subscribe to digital cable input from Comcast and buy two cable boxes - one for the PC and the second installed before the Sage Media Extender.

What is wrong with this picture?

It sounds like you think you think you need a coax cable to your extender or to your plasma. You don't (unless you had a cable-card-enabled TV and wanted to watch TV completely outside of Sage). Within Sage, the connection to your TV is network cable (CAT5/6) from your router/switch to the Extender, and then HDMI or component to the TV. There's no coax and no cable box in that path. Now, as far as how the cable box is controlled, I am a little unsure, since I am OTA, but here's my understanding (someone correct me if I am wrong): your coax cable will go straight to the cable box - it has to, to be unencrypted - and then from there into a tuner (card). When you change channels in Sage, it will change the channel on the cable box via some method (there are several)(?). So I believe you would need a cable box for each tuner at the PC (?), but not at the extender.

You can only ever watch or record one channel per tuner that you have. Even your old VCR allowed you to watch one channel while recording another. But if you only have one tuner, then you can only watch that channel that you are recording. And with DVR-like technology (like Sage), whatever channel is currently tuned is recording, until you change the channel. As carlgar said, it sounds like you watch a lot of "live" TV... but I bet there is something that you would want to record at some point on another channel, so you would need at least two tuners. Also, if you ever want to have someone watching one thing on the PC and someone else watching on the plasma, that would take two tuners. If you left your extender on and didn't put it in "standby", it would be "using" a tuner, and you wouldn't be able to change the channel on your PC. Etc., etc.

I'm a little unsure about the cable box interactivity, so hopefully someone else will clarify. But I can tell you for almost-certain that you will want more than one tuner (you currently have two, but one is analog, so you would need more by next Feb).

Of course, many people mix-and-match with digital cable, analog cable, satellite, an antenna, QAM cable, etc. There's a thread somewhere in this forum with a poll of how many tuners people have, and the most common answer was 4 (I happen to have 4 also). Some had as many as 10+. Very few had only one, and a few only had two.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

so you would need more by next Feb)

That only applies to OTA reception. The cable companies can continue analog signals as long as they want. The Feb cutoff is for your local channels broadcasting OTA.

[johnwmreed]

Ok, I think you people are flushing out what my problem really is. My tuner card on my PC, I believe, is a Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1800 or somthing close to it. This means I have two tuners and three coaxial connections. The first connection is a FM radio tuner that is labeled: "FM Ant." The second is a analog tuner that is labeled "TV/Cable Ant." The third is a ATSC tuner labeled: "DTV- Ant."

Now, forget the FM Ant. The TV/Cable Ant. is where I have attached my analog Comcast Cable TV coaxial cable (everything is working fine with my trial Sage software). As best as I can tell if I were to go to Comcast digital I am not going to be able to record HDTV from my cable connection.

On the other hand, the DTV Ant. can be used to receive HDTV from OTA.

So where in my setup am I going to be able to record HDTV from my cable supplier? Am I missing something here? Can the TV/Cable Ant. on the Hauppauge receive HDTV???

[carlgar]

Have you tried to scan for clear QAM channels? The "TV/Cable Ant." should let the digital tuner find the clear QAM channels. My HDTV has the 2 different inputs and finds the clear QAM channels just fine using the "TV/Cable Ant." connection. I am not familar with the Hauppauge WinTV HVR-1800, but I believe some users had had trouble finding clear QAM channels with it. I believe it requires a strong signal.

[johnwmreed]

My problem at this point is I do not have digital cable TV, only analog. So I have no way of determining whether my tuner card will receive HDTV on the cable connection.

The reason I am pursuing this point at this time is to just eliminate one potential problem. When I get digital cable I want my sage software to work. I don't want to discover that my tuner card is incapable of recording HDTV from digital cable connection. This is a little bit academic. I could just wait and find out it doesn't, pull the card and buy a new one. But I am sure when that happens I will invest a lot of time trying to be sure it really is an incapable card rather than a defective one. HP just won't tell me what card I have.